tdhoosier

back on subject.....

I didn't get to see the game until last last night. I think that run in the second half was the most fun I had watching IU play this season. It looked like out guards were hunting for shots, rather than hunting feeds into the post. 

XJ, Gallo and MM had 33 shot attempts

Ware and Malik had 16 shot attempts

I like that balance. 

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

<Sigh>

If you look at starting lineups, this year our prevailing starting lineup is Cupps, Galloway, Ware, Mgbako, and Reneau and with that lineup, we're 8-8...That group is also our top 5 this year in minutes played per game...they combine for 173 starts at the D1 level...

The team we played yesterday's starting lineup had 414 starts at the D1 level...Purdue? 397...Illinois? 445...

Even Ohio State's most prevalent lineup has 302 starts under their belt...

Leal and Walker are bit players, but I know you threw them in to prop up your argument...But it doesn't...

So the facts say, yes, we're an inexperienced group...But don't let facts get into the way of the "Fire Woody" argument...

I think that this is a loaded topic. To your point it's better to be analyzing minutes played vs. how many years they were on a college roster.

However, this can also be easy to cherry pick teams to fit a narrative. Teams like Purdue and Wisconsin who don't recruit highly ranked player and have great development will rarely have an inexperienced roster. Teams like Kentucky and Duke who are able to get 5 star recruits every year will naturally have inexperienced rosters (for most seasons). 

I'd think as a coach, there is a risk/reward when you go big game hunting, you'll have to deal with the woes of having a younger roster. If you're not going after 5 stars then you may need to deal with a lack of athleticism that can create mismatches in March. Bottom line though: you need to build your roster accordingly.

I'm not advocating one strategy over another. I will say if you want to have a roster with 300+ starts, you better be developing the underclassmen you recruit straight from high school. If you're going to constantly be working with an inexperienced roster, you better consistently be recruiting high school players and transfers who can come in, and are ready to play on day 1. 

All that said, if the goal is to play experienced players with starts under their belt, is the future that bright for us? Banks and Gunn are likely transfer candidates who have no starts under their belt. Jakai is obviously injured this season. I'm excited about Cupps, but he has a long way to go still and I can't imagine him starting over a portal PG (fingers crossed). And we only have ONE high school recruit coming in so far. If Mgbako stays, we may eclipse that 300 starts mark late next season, but what about the year after that when Gallo is gone and MM is most likely gone? 

I know you and I disagree...and that's okay...I enjoy the debate. You put more importance (than me) on what Woody has done when he has an experienced roster. I think it's a fair point, but I just don't know how he's going to get back to that success. I personally am unable to see the path, when I factor what we have coming in next year (so far).

I also have concerns about if another systematically inexperienced roster can run Woody's system the way he envisions it being ran. I mean, this is one of the main reason we aren't playing well this year, right? 

To me, it looks like the house is being built on stilts right now. 

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I've been calling for the retire since the inception or maybe even before the inception of this thread.  

He's losing from an optics and product standpoint.  That I do not deny.  What I've called over the top, is the reaction to day one of Indiana sectionals.  Was Teri Morren at day one of Indiana sectionals?  Purdue's women's coach is squaring away that program, did she lose ground on day one?  It looks bad but we literally have no clue if it matters/mattered and what other fish were or are frying.  

And I think this is exactly why the whole sectional game is being talked about. The timing is just horrific.....Woody isn't doing himself any favors when his back is getting closer to being against the wall. From what I understand, the staff wasn't' there either. 

It just feeds the narrative that when it comes to game planning, roster construction, recruiting, etc., Woody just keeps tripping over these smaller things. The mistakes are compounding and it's effecting the larger picture.  It's like the analogy I heard on a podcast yesterday: "the hump is becoming a mountain"....and every mistake is making that mountain bigger.

5 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

My bad. Calipari, not Self.  How in the world did Kansas get Flory if they didn't go to every single high school basketball game of his.  Unreal the laziness of Kansas recruiting.  

 

Sorry it was the 2022 title game. AND it is his home state....his main recruiting base. You get guys by putting in the work. We have one recruit coming in next year. If we had more and/or the roster looked more structurally sound, then sure it could be an unfair criticism. This is not the case.

But, by all means, let's overlook the roster construction as a whole and let it distract us from a huge problem on the horizon. 

Do you honestly feel comfortable about next year? 

54 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Remind me how many games Woodson showed up to Ke'lel Ware in high school?

I'm not going to respond to all the quotes but geez guys. One game and you guys go 10 page postal on it? 

Remind me of how Woody didn't make effort to go to the Indiana state tournament last year because he was on vacation when 20 other college coaches were there. 

And then remind me of how Woody has one recruit signed for next year. 

And then remind me of how we maybe....mayyybe....have 4 guys from this roster coming back next year. 

I guess we'll just rebuild through the portal and act shocked when the players just can't get over the hump because they can't pick up the defense....or the offense because this staff has pieced together a systematically inexperienced roster once again. 

You may view it as an isolated event that we are over-reacting about, but to me this a continuing trend of this staff not doing what they need to do in order to build a strong and sustainable program. 

 I think that I've officially gone to the dark side. I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel. 

24 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

In addition to the defense, I wonder if May is prepared to coach in the IU pressure cooker. It takes a special personality.

Dusty May opened the door, looked at Anna and broke down into tears. 

It's March 2018. May had signed FAU's contract that made him a first-time head coach just a few hours earlier. 

And here he was, bawling in a hotel room, trying to figure out a way to back out of the deal.

“I walk in the room and I started crying and said, 'I just committed career suicide. I'm not good enough. I can't do this,'" May told CBS Sports. 

May admits to having an impulsive personality. He wanted the job, then he didn't want the job. He signed the contract before ever seeing FAU's basketball facilities. Once he did, panic set in. 

The meeting with athletic director Brian White, who at that point wasn't even a week into his new job at FAU, was so good that May agreed to be the Owls' coach just hours after arriving in Boca Raton, Florida.

When I feel something in my stomach I go with it," May said. 

May had no agent, so almost purely on vibes and the temperature in the air, he put pen to paper.

"At that point, I still haven't been to our gym, our weight room, our locker room," May said.

When he saw the gym, the weight room, the locker room, May was cloaked in remorse. He tried not to show it on his face.

May was freaking out internally. He wanted to go back to Florida and stay on as Mike White's top assistant. 

"I knew we just had a lot of work even to fill a competitive roster," May said. "I would've left and went back to Gainesville after signing the contract if it wasn't for my relationship with Mike and his family."

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/dusty-may-wanted-to-quit-hours-after-signing-fau-contract-now-hes-coached-owls-to-improbable-final-four-run/

Maybe. Maybe not.

But IMO, that story isn’t a negatively reflection on what he can and can not handle. If anything, it shows grit and perseverance. It shows that he built a final four team at a school with horrible facilities and resources.  

49 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

Trilly shared an update that Dolson and Woodson met today and that no decision about the future has been made yet. I took this as Dolson giving Woodson an opportunity to show something the rest of the year but that’s just me. 

I heard Woodson called the meeting to find out what’s going on because he read that Trilly tweet about Pearl. 😎

1 minute ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I heard they were having an epic Tecmo Bowl tournament in Cook Hall and just couldn't get away.

 

the old zig zag....never fails. 

25 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said:

🙃

In the comments it appears fans from opposing fan cases are thrilled by this news. 

16 minutes ago, btownqb said:

My comment wasn't worried about Trilly. It was "I hope there is more than one source spreading this"

I saw that Trilly's info is supposedly coming from the Pearl camp. Not IU. 

Even if this were true, Pearl has a team that is capable of getting to the final four - does he want this info getting out? It'd seem like a huge distraction. 

Logically it doesn't make sense that there is so much smoke, this early. Sure, crazier things have happened, but I'm still a skeptic. 

46 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

I thought Peacock was doing part of the Big 10 tourney this year but maybe I was wrong.

15 minutes ago, rico said:

You are right.  Peacock has the first 2 games(March 13th).

This was not the way I needed to start my morning!

I will just use this time to say that I hate peacock. No option to record. No option to start the game from the beginning. The only option I got after getting home at 9:00 is to rewind the game as far as they’ll let me. The problem with this is that when I do this,  the stupid screen freezes and then kicks me out. 

seriously, this is a major company streaming service that the B1G partnered with. Get your shit together Peacock. Thanks for making games harder to watch. 

Scott, will you write a letter for me?

3 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

he definitly had to dial in in 96/97 unless he was rich and had dls like a few.  I was on 33.6

I don’t think Indiana had DLS until around 2017. Haha.  It happened right after they allowed liquor sales on a Sunday. 😎

46 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I have made my point about Beard and there is no need to rehash it. Just don't want a drunk girlfriend beater as my coach. I was also was one of the fans who early on wanted RMK gone before he was let go. He should have been let go after the film came out when.he out his hands on Reed. Around 1996-97 on Peeg's I said it was time to move on and I got totally badged on that site. An old timer Gorkjo wanted to meet me and to kick my ass.

message boards were around in 96??? Did you have to dial in on AOL?

18 minutes ago, Indykev said:

 

In the post you can only see the top of his head. I thought it was Bruce Weber! lol

I'll preface this by I'm not sure what to personally think about Pearl's past. My opinion on the issue is not relevant.

But, If there's one thing that we know: it's the desire for IU (especially the basketball program) to hold an ethical high ground. Virtually every decision they made in the past 25 years has been navigated through the path of the least ethical resistance. (except for Sampson, which they go burned for and as a result are even more hesitant to dabble in these waters).

If history is an indicator of future decisions at all.....I just don't think the powers that be think Pearl is a good fit at IU. I don't think they make that move. I also appreciate the inside info, but these rumors are coming from the same sources that got it wrong last time.

I honestly think this is all wish-casting projected as inside info. 

1 minute ago, Indy1987 said:

This is how bad things are.  $2 good seats.  Smh.

I guess I should've posted this is the all things positive thread.  Mike Woodson making IU basketball cheap again.

Go Hoosiers!!!

Well, if there's one way the fans can steer the decision to fire Woody, it's to not attend games. An empty assembly hall for a pre-season game is embarrassing, let alone a conference game. 

24 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

More Bruce Pearl info 

It wasn't legal then, and that matters. The article I posted above gives insight into Pearl's integrity, even at the D2 level, and it's not pretty... 

Well, that one answers my question in regards to why IU steered clear for the last 3 searches. The Deon Thomas story is wild....I always knew IL fans hated him, but didn't know the details. 

3 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

Would you have ever guessed IU would go after and hire Coach Cignetti? His boastful personality and intention alone is refreshing.

To be clear, I'm not saying I agree or don't agree with their previous decision to not go after him. I'm just wondering out loud: what has changed?

Yeah. I love Cig. The football program needed a shot of confidence. 

Pearl's name has come up before the Crean hire, the Archie hire and the Woody hire. 

I always assumed that the school thought there were instances he flirted too close to the line (regarding NCAA rules). But  I can't remember the details that surrounded narrative.

You do have to wonder if Pearl's a good enough candidate now, then why wasn't he the 3 previous times?

6 minutes ago, DC2345 said:

This is correct. He would be the top target contrary to what Eric was saying in the Peegs chat last night. Bruce has always wanted the IU job and that's part of why he's kept so many of his Indiana connections. 

What was Eric saying?

34 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I believe BTB has fewer posts per page.  HSN has 25 per page.  they don't have that many.

And ten pop up ads every time you click on a new page. 

1 hour ago, Kdug said:

A fringe starter as a senior is essentially the definition of a 3 star, and that’s not meant as a knock at Gallo. But he’s tailor made to be a 6th man type who brings energy off the bench and isn’t asked to carry an offense like he’s been asked to do for IU this year.

And I don’t think Cupps has looked like a 3 star at all. I’d consider a 3 star talent roughly a top 150 player in their class. Using Torviks PRPG! ranking - which is essentially offensive rating weighted for usage and minutes - he has Cupps ranked as the 445th out of 452 freshmen who have played at least 20% of their team’s minutes. A lot of freshman struggle more than you think they would, so it’s not like he can’t get better next year. But he hasn’t looked like a player who was ready for college level basketball.

That's an interesting stat for Cupps. I do believe that he has a very low usage rate because he doesn't get used in the offense. He dribbles the ball up court, passes it and rarely gets it back. So, I'll concede. 

Regarding Trey, it depends on the role he's playing on a team. Put 2 shooters next to him and he's going create a lot mis-matches for the opponent. He'd find a LOT of minutes no matter the system. Find the right system and I believe he's a second or third team all Big Ten. But that's hypotheticals. 

I'm getting into the weed's though. The overall point is that WE HAVE TALENT. It's not put together nicely, but it's enough talent to be WAY more competitive. We're not dealing with a team of walk-ons here. Two players could make it to the NBA. A few more could be pros in Europe.

And we are sitting at the bottom of the B1G and are getting blown out by PSU. 

3 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

Your bottom two are not very accurate. How many starting guards in the BIG do they outperform? For Cupps, the answer is probably zero.

Gallo is a fringe starter on just about every team in the conference. If he's able to play the role the excels in, any team would gladly take him.

I don't think this system does any favors for Cupps. His job is to dribble up the court and pass it into the interior. it doesn't create spot up 3's for him. He doesn't get help on the defensive end because we can't rotate. I think he's a Freshman, who will ultimately be a valuable asset though. Are you saying he's not performing like a 3 star freshman? That's not really a high bar. I don't think a 2 star sees the court no matter how bad we need him. 

2 minutes ago, IUALUM03 said:

Before we say stars don't mean anything.....

-Ware is individually playing like a 5 star
-Malik is individually playing like a 5 star (although he may have been a 4 star out of high school)
-Mgbako is working his way up to individually playing like a 5 star (highest freshman ppg), but let's say he's playing like a 4 star for the sake of argument. 
-I'd say Cupps is playing like a 3 star. 
-I'd say Gallo is playing like a 4 star. 

That's our starting line up. I don't necessarily think there's a disconnect in the rankings as much as there's a disconnect in the system.