NotIThatLives Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: I tend to side with @RoadToZion on this...After the Penn State game, people were losing their minds, saying Woody lost the team, and they weren't listening, ect...He's just saying that wasn't the issue...And I 100% agree...There is no "magic switch" Coach Woodson flipped...it's a time matter...Kids get use to new roles, and they play better...Simple as that... People were literally calling coach lazy. Called out the assistants as worthless and only recruiters, asking what are they doing, player development blah blah blah. Called our director of administration sleepy. It was embarrassing and so was the effort and execution by the players and coaches. Good thing is they stepped up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 15 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said: Stop there. That was my entire point. We should have been better those two games. Period. That's fair, but this is college basketball. Most good teams, even elite teams, have stretches where they struggle even when they're fully healthy. That doesn't mean that all of those teams have players who aren't listening and coaches that don't know what they're doing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Me? Harping? I know I have a truculent side 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maedhros Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 hours ago, Kdug said: That's fair, but this is college basketball. Most good teams, even elite teams, have stretches where they struggle even when they're fully healthy. That doesn't mean that all of those teams have players who aren't listening and coaches that don't know what they're doing. Exactly right. We had a bad stretch. Every season has them. Bob Knight teams had them. Not to go all IU Scott, but even the championship '81 team fell out of the polls after losing back to back games to Clemson and Texas Rio Grande Valley, a school I didn't know existed until just now while browsing Sports Reference. That school beat Isaih Thomas, Ray Tolbert & Randy Wittman. It's probably not the end of the world if a few Big Ten teams beat Trayce Jackson-Davis and Jalen Hood-Schifino I know, I'll hear 'it's not THAT we lost, it's WAY we lost'. Nah. Losing always feels bad in the moment. The team that gave up a big lead to Iowa is the same one that built that lead in the first place. The team that got down big against Northwestern fought to bring the final margin down to one. There was fight there, but the results will always leave you frustrated regardless. The wheels came off at Penn State, but what of it? Gonzaga just lost at home to Loyola Marymount. Sometimes the wheels come off. I'll readily admit we played poorly in those games. But a three game stretch in the Big Ten was never going to define our season unless we let it. It felt weird then to see so many ready to throw in the towel on the season, or this coach. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 26 minutes ago, Maedhros said: Exactly right. We had a bad stretch. Every season has them. Bob Knight teams had them. Not to go all IU Scott, but even the championship '81 team fell out of the polls after losing back to back games to Clemson and Texas Rio Grande Valley, a school I didn't know existed until just now while browsing Sports Reference. That school beat Isaih Thomas, Ray Tolbert & Randy Wittman. It's probably not the end of the world if a few Big Ten teams beat Trayce Jackson-Davis and Jalen Hood-Schifino I know, I'll hear 'it's not THAT we lost, it's WAY we lost'. Nah. Losing always feels bad in the moment. The team that gave up a big lead to Iowa is the same one that built that lead in the first place. The team that got down big against Northwestern fought to bring the final margin down to one. There was fight there, but the results will always leave you frustrated regardless. The wheels came off at Penn State, but what of it? Gonzaga just lost at home to Loyola Marymount. Sometimes the wheels come off. I'll readily admit we played poorly in those games. But a three game stretch in the Big Ten was never going to define our season unless we let it. It felt weird then to see so many ready to throw in the towel on the season, or this coach. Man sports reference is great 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 42 minutes ago, Maedhros said: Exactly right. We had a bad stretch. Every season has them. Bob Knight teams had them. Not to go all IU Scott, but even the championship '81 team fell out of the polls after losing back to back games to Clemson and Texas Rio Grande Valley, a school I didn't know existed until just now while browsing Sports Reference. That school beat Isaih Thomas, Ray Tolbert & Randy Wittman. It's probably not the end of the world if a few Big Ten teams beat Trayce Jackson-Davis and Jalen Hood-Schifino I know, I'll hear 'it's not THAT we lost, it's WAY we lost'. Nah. Losing always feels bad in the moment. The team that gave up a big lead to Iowa is the same one that built that lead in the first place. The team that got down big against Northwestern fought to bring the final margin down to one. There was fight there, but the results will always leave you frustrated regardless. The wheels came off at Penn State, but what of it? Gonzaga just lost at home to Loyola Marymount. Sometimes the wheels come off. I'll readily admit we played poorly in those games. But a three game stretch in the Big Ten was never going to define our season unless we let it. It felt weird then to see so many ready to throw in the towel on the season, or this coach. X 1,000,000,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Maedhros said: Exactly right. We had a bad stretch. Every season has them. Bob Knight teams had them. Not to go all IU Scott, but even the championship '81 team fell out of the polls after losing back to back games to Clemson and Texas Rio Grande Valley, a school I didn't know existed until just now while browsing Sports Reference. That school beat Isaih Thomas, Ray Tolbert & Randy Wittman. It's probably not the end of the world if a few Big Ten teams beat Trayce Jackson-Davis and Jalen Hood-Schifino I know, I'll hear 'it's not THAT we lost, it's WAY we lost'. Nah. Losing always feels bad in the moment. The team that gave up a big lead to Iowa is the same one that built that lead in the first place. The team that got down big against Northwestern fought to bring the final margin down to one. There was fight there, but the results will always leave you frustrated regardless. The wheels came off at Penn State, but what of it? Gonzaga just lost at home to Loyola Marymount. Sometimes the wheels come off. I'll readily admit we played poorly in those games. But a three game stretch in the Big Ten was never going to define our season unless we let it. It felt weird then to see so many ready to throw in the towel on the season, or this coach. Pretty sure it was Texas Pan American Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Pretty sure it was Texas Pan American It was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 1 hour ago, Maedhros said: Exactly right. We had a bad stretch. Every season has them. Bob Knight teams had them. Not to go all IU Scott, but even the championship '81 team fell out of the polls after losing back to back games to Clemson and Texas Rio Grande Valley, a school I didn't know existed until just now while browsing Sports Reference. That school beat Isaih Thomas, Ray Tolbert & Randy Wittman. It's probably not the end of the world if a few Big Ten teams beat Trayce Jackson-Davis and Jalen Hood-Schifino I know, I'll hear 'it's not THAT we lost, it's WAY we lost'. Nah. Losing always feels bad in the moment. The team that gave up a big lead to Iowa is the same one that built that lead in the first place. The team that got down big against Northwestern fought to bring the final margin down to one. There was fight there, but the results will always leave you frustrated regardless. The wheels came off at Penn State, but what of it? Gonzaga just lost at home to Loyola Marymount. Sometimes the wheels come off. I'll readily admit we played poorly in those games. But a three game stretch in the Big Ten was never going to define our season unless we let it. It felt weird then to see so many ready to throw in the towel on the season, or this coach. All fair statements. There's a reason I usually stay away from fan forums when IU is playing poorly. It's hard to be a big fan of the program and stay rational when it feels like the wheels are coming off. I still chalk a lot of poor play up to mental softness, which can come and go when you're dealing with kids. I hate that it took three bad games to get a needed wake-up call, but it's good to see Trayce showing leadership and playing well. Hope these guys can maintain that mentally hard edge down the stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 I have not read all of the dialogue in the last 3 pages. But, I kind of get the gist of the discussion and will say this. While many fans were over the top in the panic and criticism, I do think in this case, the fan dissension actually helped. If the struggles this team went through happened at a place that doesn't care as much about basketball as the Hoosier State does (Texas, for example), I'm not sure the team bounces back as it has. I personally think both the players and the coaches used the fan dissent as motivation, come together, and rally around it. We can put our head in the sand and say otherwise, but there were real issues beyond the injuries that had this team struggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 DeCoursey said it’s almost beyond explanation that the same core group of players who allowed 90ppg over three games put in the defensive performances against WI and IL just a few days later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 41 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Pretty sure it was Texas Pan American They have since changed their name I believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slojoe Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 14 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: DeCoursey said it’s almost beyond explanation that the same core group of players who allowed 90ppg over three games put in the defensive performances against WI and IL just a few days later "The mental is to the physical as 2 is to 1." RMK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 20, 2023 Report Share Posted January 20, 2023 19 minutes ago, 5fouls said: We can put our head in the sand and say otherwise, but there were real issues beyond the injuries that had this team struggling. So I'm really interested in what people who have this mindset think the problem was, and what Mike Woodson did to fix it... He didn't change the lineup or the sub patterns... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I have not read all of the dialogue in the last 3 pages. But, I kind of get the gist of the discussion and will say this. While many fans were over the top in the panic and criticism, I do think in this case, the fan dissension actually helped. If the struggles this team went through happened at a place that doesn't care as much about basketball as the Hoosier State does (Texas, for example), I'm not sure the team bounces back as it has. I personally think both the players and the coaches used the fan dissent as motivation, come together, and rally around it. We can put our head in the sand and say otherwise, but there were real issues beyond the injuries that had this team struggling. Can you elaborate a bit how our fans get credit? I’m not sure I’m connecting the dots on what we did. Did @IU Scottbust out some analytics to share with the staff? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So I'm really interested in what people who have this mindset think the problem was, and what Mike Woodson did to fix it... He didn't change the lineup or the sub patterns... A couple obvious things. We pressured the perimeter and made it much more difficult for the opponents to run their offense. The IL game looked like the UNC game in that regard. They stopped over helping which led to wide open shooters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 33 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: DeCoursey said it’s almost beyond explanation that the same core group of players who allowed 90ppg over three games put in the defensive performances against WI and IL just a few days later To be completely fair, MD is an idiot. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: A couple obvious things. We pressured the perimeter and made it much more difficult for the opponents to run their offense. The IL game looked like the UNC game in that regard. They stopped over helping which led to wide open shooters But how did the fans cause that? We already know the players weren’t listening previously, so it’s not like we have reason to think our coaches stopped wanting that. I think there’s a lot of merit to certain guys needing to learn what playing hard and focused when you’re a starter really means. I think it’s disappointing it took things getting so bad for them to learn it and think it’s fair to put some of the blame on the coaching staff. Coaches are ultimately responsible for getting through to their players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue3542 Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: DeCoursey said it’s almost beyond explanation that the same core group of players who allowed 90ppg over three games put in the defensive performances against WI and IL just a few days later You mean the explanation of having two starters out and the team needing some time to adjust to new roles and lineups? Yeah, what a mystery, Mike. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 Just now, KoB2011 said: But how did the fans cause that? We already know the players weren’t listening previously, so it’s not like we have reason to think our coaches stopped wanting that. I think there’s a lot of merit to certain guys needing to learn what playing hard and focused when you’re a starter really means. I think it’s disappointing it took things getting so bad for them to learn it and think it’s fair to put some of the blame on the coaching staff. Coaches are ultimately responsible for getting through to their players. I don’t think fans had anything to do with it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said: I don’t think fans had anything to do with it You responded to a post about the fans getting credit for the turnaround. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: You responded to a post about the fans getting credit for the turnaround. No I didn’t. Read IUFLA’s post that I responded to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: No I didn’t. Read IUFLA’s post that I responded to Ah my bad. I thought he quoted the entire post from 5fouls. I agree with you then, yes there were real problems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 21, 2023 Report Share Posted January 21, 2023 11 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: A couple obvious things. We pressured the perimeter and made it much more difficult for the opponents to run their offense. The IL game looked like the UNC game in that regard. They stopped over helping which led to wide open shooters I think the over-helping part did play a big role... And in one of post game pressers, or maybe it was a preview, but Woody said that sometimes players think being aggressive which leads to over-helping is playing hard... His point was being overly aggressive can lead to mistakes that hurt more than help... His message was stick to the game plan... The one we practiced and worked on all week... And to address @KoB2011's point, sure the coach has some culpability, but as @btownqb said, the players play... They execute the game plan... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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