Dawg Bawls Posted October 30, 2023 Report Share Posted October 30, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, DWB said: Gonna chalk this one up to "shaking off the cob-webs". If we don't make a major improvement on Friday, it'll be hard for us to win any of the pre-conf, big name games, like UConn, Kansas, Auburn. Hated the stand around offense in the half court. No screens, or movement. (or very little movement) Agree... i saw a bunch of guys that are good players playing together for the first time... Edited October 30, 2023 by Dawg Bawls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted October 30, 2023 Report Share Posted October 30, 2023 I mean, I was trying to search for positives, but bottom line is we do have talent. We do have length. We do have pretty good depth. Most of the offensive woes were missing shots that we absolutely need to make. So if you're getting good shots, you have to think we'll start converting those, right? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 17 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said: I mean, I was trying to search for positives, but bottom line is we do have talent. We do have length. We do have pretty good depth. Most of the offensive woes were missing shots that we absolutely need to make. So if you're getting good shots, you have to think we'll start converting those, right? Quite frankly, we haven't converted many open shots for the better part of a decade now and unfortunately, I'm not sure this year is going to be much different. I think the shooting (specifically free throws and 3 point shooting) will be a glaring issue much like we've seen in recent memory. A Dalton Knecht would've slid in nicely for this team...Regardless, no sense of wondering about "what ifs." We'll see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 I just watched the game on youtube. I pray the shooting gets better. I see a 15 -18 win season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 I hold out hope the FT shooting gets better. That's usually something that is correctable. 3 point shooting ain't gonna happen with this group. We need to be prepared to be frustrated by it all year. Team is going to need to be very efficient from 2 and buckle down on D in order to win against a Top 50 team. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWB Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just watched the game for the 3rd time and made some notes this time. We missed 15 bunnies at the rim. (12in the first ½) 7 really bad passes, leading to turnovers Couple of "bad hands" plays by guys. (probably to be expected) Ware had a max vertical in this game of 6". Ware needs to find at least...2 more gears in his giddy-up Walker was surprisingly good for all his minutes. Didn't expect that Cupps D is outstanding. CJ playing with a lot more confidence in this one. 28 fast break points. Woody said on his radio show that we were not going to be hunting 3's this year. So all you guys who like to bitch about us needing to take more 3's, it looks like you'll be frustrated a lot this year. Personally, I'll take 20+ fast break points over hunting for more threes any day. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Euroclydon Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 Willing to let this play out but some things that are concerning include... - Lack of foot speed for most of the team. - Severe drop off in post athleticism, reaction, and defensive cover. - Shooting still not looking like even an average team. Where Race and Trayce covered mistakes on the defensive end and reliably competed on the glass, through one exhibition I'm not seeing it. Long way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just watched the second half, and was encouraged by what I saw. Anthony Walker looks like a player, and Gunn looks improved. Anxious to see a healthy Kaleb Banks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 I love TJD...Great kid, great player, and a great ambassador for the program, so this is not in any way, shape or form a criticism of him...But not once in 5 years did I see him do this... Under duress too...And judging from his teammates' reactions, not the first time they've seen it... I think we'll be just fine 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier4Life53 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: I love TJD...Great kid, great player, and a great ambassador for the program, so this is not in any way, shape or form a criticism of him...But not once in 5 years did I see him do this... Under duress too...And judging from his teammates' reactions, not the first time they've seen it... I think we'll be just fine It was also a nice way to end the game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 13 hours ago, IUFLA said: I love TJD...Great kid, great player, and a great ambassador for the program, so this is not in any way, shape or form a criticism of him...But not once in 5 years did I see him do this... Under duress too...And judging from his teammates' reactions, not the first time they've seen it... I think we'll be just fine The TEAM attempted TEN 3-point shots the whole game against a D2 opponent. I find that to be the bigger story than the fact Ware can step out and occasionally hit one. There does not appear to be anyone on the team that can be the type of player that IU can count on and feel confident it will go in. Maybe what Leary said is correct and Mgbako is that guy. The next 5-7 games are key to see what IU has from deep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 56 minutes ago, 5fouls said: The TEAM attempted TEN 3-point shots the whole game against a D2 opponent. I find that to be the bigger story than the fact Ware can step out and occasionally hit one. There does not appear to be anyone on the team that can be the type of player that IU can count on and feel confident it will go in. Maybe what Leary said is correct and Mgbako is that guy. The next 5-7 games are key to see what IU has from deep. I understand that...My point was, we've had bigs who couldn't or wouldn't shoot the 3 for the past 2 years...This one can... Woody has already said anyone who expects a big jump in 3 pointers is going to be disappointed (on the radio show with Fischer and in the post game)... "More on perimeter shooting and taking 3s: “I think we have guys who I feel good about knocking them down. But make no mistake about it, the game ain’t just about living on 3-pointers. We got 28 points in transition which is huge in college basketball. Obviously we’re playing a lot quicker the second half. But you’re going to have to post the ball some. 2-pointers still count in the game of basketball. Let’s not be foolish about this. I still have to utilize… I got a 7-2 guy. Hell, I want him out just shooting 3-point shots? No, that’s not gonna happen with me. Yes, he can pick and pop versus what Trayce (Jackson-Davis) and his ability… he couldn’t do that. And he didn’t want to do it. I mean I thought he could do it, but he just didn’t do it. But he was still great for us. Hey, if getting 50 points in the paint allows us to win a game, I’m going to take it regardless of what people say. I’m not going to let people dictate our team. I still have to coach this team and I think you have to mix it up with transition, 3s and a high percentage 2.” And I'm encouraged by Mgbako too...Kid plays with an attitude on both ends that I like...I wouldn't mess with his crunch wrap either 21 assists to 10 turnovers...that's the stat I liked... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: The TEAM attempted TEN 3-point shots the whole game against a D2 opponent. I find that to be the bigger story than the fact Ware can step out and occasionally hit one. There does not appear to be anyone on the team that can be the type of player that IU can count on and feel confident it will go in. Maybe what Leary said is correct and Mgbako is that guy. The next 5-7 games are key to see what IU has from deep. I'm a Woodson fan, want to be really clear about that. With that said, if what Leary said about Mgbako's shooting is even remotely accurate, it will almost be coaching malpractice if he's not taking something like 5-7 3's per game himself. I also found Woodson’s comments about not being a 3pt shooting team concerning. I shared this earlier in this thread, but when our bigs have the ball in the paint they consistently miss wide open shooters when they're doubled, etc. They rarely kick it out. Is that coached? Finally, if we're going to be a transition team like Woodson said he wants to be, then we should be taking more 3's, not less. The transition 3 is one of the best 3's you can take. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 50 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'm a Woodson fan, want to be really clear about that. With that said, if what Leary said about Mgbako's shooting is even remotely accurate, it will almost be coaching malpractice if he's not taking something like 5-7 3's per game himself. I also found Woodson’s comments about not being a 3pt shooting team concerning. I shared this earlier in this thread, but when our bigs have the ball in the paint they consistently miss wide open shooters when they're doubled, etc. They rarely kick it out. Is that coached? Finally, if we're going to be a transition team like Woodson said he wants to be, then we should be taking more 3's, not less. The transition 3 is one of the best 3's you can take. I have a feeling if this is his philosophy then it will be the spark for debates for years to come. NOW, if he can win B1G championships and consistently make it to the second weekend of the tournament - my lips are zipped. That said, I do agree that we need to take high percentage 2's when they are given to us. But opposing coaches are not dumb and have proven to take away those looks....especially when we get into B1G play. My question at that point is: now what? Are we still going to keep forcing it, or take more 3's? I hope the answer is the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I have a feeling if this is his philosophy then it will be the spark for debates for years to come. NOW, if he can win B1G championships and consistently make it to the second weekend of the tournament - my lips are zipped. That said, I do agree that we need to take high percentage 2's when they are given to us. But opposing coaches are not dumb and have proven to take away those looks....especially when we get into B1G play. My question at that point is: now what? Are we still going to keep forcing it, or take more 3's? I hope the answer is the latter. What I find interesting is that when he came back to IU initially, Woodson was talking about how his early Hawks teams were really the first to play a small ball, high volume of 3's style. Not sure that's really accurate (in terms of being first) but he was talking about that. What changed? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, BGleas said: What I find interesting is that when he came back to IU initially, Woodson was talking about how his early Hawks teams were really the first to play a small ball, high volume of 3's style. Not sure that's really accurate (in terms of being first) but he was talking about that. What changed? Personnel is what i'm guessing. For one reason or another we're missing out on the shooters and getting the bigs. I'm guessing his comments are code for: 'we don't have the shooters we need to play that way'. If that's the case, I guess that I'd rather have him design the offense to his personnel vs. the alternative. Our 2 previous coaches were steadfast in their philosophies, even if the personnel didn't necessarily match it. We know how that turned out. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 Yeah, Woody knows the game way better than me, but I thought it was pretty evident that us dominating the paint last year didn’t necessarily translate to wins sometimes. If we play lockdown defense on the other end and keep the other team from making a bunch of threes, the paint and transition points can win us games alone. But that typically doesn’t happen, we get out-volumed from three making it tough to win. The lack of emphasis also makes it tough when you NEED a three late and you’re not used to running a set to get one. Maybe he’s just teasing us, saving his secrets. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 47 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: Personnel is what i'm guessing. For one reason or another we're missing out on the shooters and getting the bigs. I'm guessing his comments are code for: 'we don't have the shooters we need to play that way'. If that's the case, I guess that I'd rather have him design the offense to his personnel vs. the alternative. Our 2 previous coaches were steadfast in their philosophies, even if the personnel didn't necessarily match it. We know how that turned out. Completely agree on coaches designing systems to their personnel. That was always a gripe of mine with Crean and Miller as well. With that said, if Mgbako is even close to the shooter Leary suggested, XJ can match what he did two years ago, Galloway can come close to what he did last year, I believe Cupps will prove to be a good shooter, and I could list a couple more guys, then I definitely think we have the personnel to increase 3pt volume. Just my opinion, but I think we also have the personnel to play smaller and faster, which also leads to more 3's. Super small sample, but I loved the lineups with XJ, Galloway and Cupps, and also liked the lineups with Walker at the 4. In certain matchups, I'd love to see us play with an XJ, Galloway, Mgbako, Banks and Walker lineup. You can even put Cupps in with that group. I just love the versatility that guys like Mgbako, Walker and Banks can give us. I'm just not sold yet that playing big is always what is right for this team. Of course Woodson knows infinitely more than I do. Just some thoughts/ideas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, tdhoosier said: But opposing coaches are not dumb Kenny Payne says 'hold my beer'. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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