IU Basketball Staff

[ledies22]

6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

We really don’t know what the assistants are actually doing…at least not enough to make an accurate evaluation. When it comes to assistants all we get is what recruits they are leads on. In that sense, it’s a ‘what have you done for me lately.’ There seems to be a narrative going on lately that Walsh is doing all the leg work. Is this because he was the lead on McNeely? Last Spring it seemed like Ya was on a roll, especially after getting Ware. Before that it was Hunter (I remember all those memes). 

I don’t have any info to bring other than my assumption: I doubt most people really know what they are talking about when it comes to this topic. 

I thought Hunter brought in Ware. 

And that's kinda my thing, if they are there to recruit and recruit only, it seems like they arent doing a great job. There was an article written about Purdue not too long ago about them pioneering an offensive coordinator role. 

https://www.si.com/college/2024/01/18/how-purdue-mens-basketball-coach-matt-painter-pioneered-offensive-coordinator-role

[tdhoosier]

15 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

I thought Hunter brought in Ware. 

And that's kinda my thing, if they are there to recruit and recruit only, it seems like they arent doing a great job. There was an article written about Purdue not too long ago about them pioneering an offensive coordinator role. 

https://www.si.com/college/2024/01/18/how-purdue-mens-basketball-coach-matt-painter-pioneered-offensive-coordinator-role

Per an ITH article in April:

Quote

Assistant coach Yasir Rosemond played a crucial role in developing a relationship with Ware and his family, leading to an official visit on April 6-7.

But that's kinda my point. We don't get much info about the other aspects of their roles (other than recruiting). Even learning who game planned a specific game, we need to do a deep dive to find out, or assume by judging their behavior on the bench. haha. *Side note, if anybody has this info, I'd be interested to see it. 

I do find the idea of 'coordinators' intriguing too. 

Edited February 8 by tdhoosier

[IUFLA]

11 hours ago, dgambill said:

Being a great basketball coach doesn’t guarantee success if your methods are outdated, if you no longer have passion and energy for the job, if you have no experience at the level you are coaching.

Purdue uses the most "outdated" method of all time, pitching it in to a guy bigger than everyone else near the basket and Letting him score over smaller players... That's been going on since Bob Kurland and George Mikan were lacing them up...and they seem to do ok...in the regular season anyway 🙂...

And I don't know where you guys are getting the "passion and energy" stuff at. I see an animated Woody on the sidelines, getting on players, giving directions, calling plays... If you're going by the post game stuff, I'd imagine after the adrenaline rush of a game a lot of us would sound a little spent.

The "no experience" line might have validity only in the fact that NIL and the portal have changed the way teams are constructed. Mike Woodson knows more about the nuts and bolts of basketball than the vast majority of people on this planet.

And I'm going to put this out there, and if people get mad, so be it... There's been an agenda afoot for quite some time here.

In a nutshell there are people on the Internet, media people, and some on here that weren't happy with the hire in the first place and don't mind seeing Mike Woodson and the team "fail" because it will make them "right." 

There's no other explanation to me when people started last year belittling anything Woody and the team did. Finished 2nd even through the myriad of injuries? "We we closer to 11th than 1st." Beat Purdue and Illinois twice? "We just had their number." Grabbed a 4 seed? "We got embarrassed by Miami."

I wasn't on board with the Kelvin Sampson hire, but did I root against IU or try to poke holes in everything he did? Not on your life... 

Do I want to see IU back at the Blue blood table? Sure I do. I want our team to compete at the highest levels. I want Big 10 championships and Final 4s. But if we play this BS of changing coaches every 3 or 4 years we'll eventually auger this program into the ground.

Just my take... 

 

[13th&Jackson]

22 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Purdue uses the most "outdated" method of all time, pitching it in to a guy bigger than everyone else near the basket and Letting him score over smaller players... That's been going on since Bob Kurland and George Mikan were lacing them up...and they seem to do ok...in the regular season anyway 🙂...

And I don't know where you guys are getting the "passion and energy" stuff at. I see an animated Woody on the sidelines, getting on players, giving directions, calling plays... If you're going by the post game stuff, I'd imagine after the adrenaline rush of a game a lot of us would sound a little spent.

The "no experience" line might have validity only in the fact that NIL and the portal have changed the way teams are constructed. Mike Woodson knows more about the nuts and bolts of basketball than the vast majority of people on this planet.

And I'm going to put this out there, and if people get mad, so be it... There's been an agenda afoot for quite some time here.

In a nutshell there are people on the Internet, media people, and some on here that weren't happy with the hire in the first place and don't mind seeing Mike Woodson and the team "fail" because it will make them "right." 

There's no other explanation to me when people started last year belittling anything Woody and the team did. Finished 2nd even through the myriad of injuries? "We we closer to 11th than 1st." Beat Purdue and Illinois twice? "We just had their number." Grabbed a 4 seed? "We got embarrassed by Miami."

I wasn't on board with the Kelvin Sampson hire, but did I root against IU or try to poke holes in everything he did? Not on your life... 

Do I want to see IU back at the Blue blood table? Sure I do. I want our team to compete at the highest levels. I want Big 10 championships and Final 4s. But if we play this BS of changing coaches every 3 or 4 years we'll eventually auger this program into the ground.

Just my take... 

 

I agree that comments get made that are over the top and there may me a small contingent who are critical of everything (although I'd say most who are critical are balanced). However, I don't get where this idea of changing  coaches every 3-4 years has taken hold. 

Excluding Sampson, who would have been here a long time based on performance, Archie Miller was the only coach who's fallen into that category at 4 years. Davis was here 6 and Crean 9. Some have called for Woodson to be fired after this season. I'm not in that camp unless an obvious upgrade is available, and I've placed the odds of him being fired after year 3 at zero. TJD said next year is going to be big. 

I wasn't on board with Woodson being hired without an obvious succession plan. I don't see anyone on staff being an heir apparent, so upon the hire, you know you'll be doing a coaching search again within 6 years. 

After Bear Bryant retired, Alabama went through 7 football coaches in 24 years. Then they finally found Saban. IU hasn't done anything remotely like that. They've been very patient with their basketball coaches. 

[NotIThatLives]

We are all on this wide spectrum of optimistic, pessimistic,  realist, lean positive realist, lean negative realist.  Most of us fanatics flow on this spectrum throughout the season.  There has been one maybe 2 seldom posters, one rhymes with ho,  who's agenda is let's say, sprinkled with strong hints of racism.  Then there is one who always wants to blame it on the man.  Dolson's fault.  Boring and lazy takes and I told him as such 3 days ago and he's crawled back into his hole.  

What we all need is just a little patience.   Come on now.  Major roster shake up coming in hot.  NIL still wildly high.  There are some concerns.  Even last years roster wasn't constructed to get down hill or shoot, it was play your strength,  TJD, duh.  

If we don't look drastically different next year, then I'll pull out the retire now pitch fork. Since this is the overall staff thread, I'm fine with a head rolling if the brass seems fit but screw the optics.  Only if we can actually improve the coaching and culture.  

[IUFLA]

11 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I agree that comments get made that are over the top and there may me a small contingent who are critical of everything (although I'd say most who are critical are balanced). However, I don't get where this idea of changing  coaches every 3-4 years has taken hold. 

Excluding Sampson, who would have been here a long time based on performance, Archie Miller was the only coach who's fallen into that category at 4 years. Davis was here 6 and Crean 9. Some have called for Woodson to be fired after this season. I'm not in that camp unless an obvious upgrade is available, and I've placed the odds of him being fired after year 3 at zero. TJD said next year is going to be big. 

I wasn't on board with Woodson being hired without an obvious succession plan. I don't see anyone on staff being an heir apparent, so upon the hire, you know you'll be doing a coaching search again within 6 years. 

After Bear Bryant retired, Alabama went through 7 football coaches in 24 years. Then they finally found Saban. IU hasn't done anything remotely like that. They've been very patient with their basketball coaches. 

Ok, let's say soon after the first subpar year... Painter had a mid career stretch that would have gotten him canned at IU. Hummel said it during the Wisconsin game that IU fans needed to be more patient and let the culture develop beyond one mediocre or bad season.

I, personally, think Coach Woodson is guilty of one thing this year... Trusting that his senior leaders would actually lead. One hasn't because of immaturity and injury, and the other is inconsistent in his play. I was encouraged by what Trey did against Ohio State, but he's got to be more consistent.

 

[Inequality]

I don’t know of anyone especially here that has an “agenda” of being “right” and rooting for the team to fail. That would be some kind of massive ego. Actually Dakich comes to mind. But he’s not here on this board.

I hated the hire myself but here I am still rooting for the team as we all sink in the same quick sand.

My boys middle school coach who is with AAU and an IU grad told me two days ago that the general consensus around his group is that everyone wants a change and can see it’s not panning out.

When I go to my office I have several IU lifers & alum that say the same things that’s being said here. Woodson just isn’t IU level college coach material unless he has help getting the right pieces. And even then he still needs help. Look at all the help he surrounds himself with.

No one has a personal issue with the staff as people. The issue comes from playing terrible basketball. We all just want to win. Especially at home. And if we can’t win, we want to be proud of the attempt and feel like we are good enough to beat them next time.

Woodson, Hunter or whomever had these tremendous accolades, needs to figure out how to translate it to one accolade they don’t have and that’s winning big at college basketball. Because right now, they are sucking at it.

In the end, we as fans are all on the same team and of all the people I associate with daily, I’ve not heard one that said I hope the team loses.

Think about a guy like Anthony Leal for example. Putting on the jersey has been a childhood dream. I feel horrible for the kid. He’s already toughed out a coaching change. He’s in what would be his normal senior season and has been patiently waiting his turn to get minutes. I couldn’t imagine rooting against the team for a personal agenda and not considering that young fella. The kid just wants IU to win even if it means he doesn’t play.

Btw, I seen someone say he isn’t a shooter. Ask Jr Holmes about that. Shooting is his strong side. It was defense that Holmes always had an issue with.

[Artesian_86]

14 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Ok, let's say soon after the first subpar year... Painter had a mid career stretch that would have gotten him canned at IU. Hummel said it during the Wisconsin game that IU fans needed to be more patient and let the culture develop beyond one mediocre or bad season.

I, personally, think Coach Woodson is guilty of one thing this year... Trusting that his senior leaders would actually lead. One hasn't because of immaturity and injury, and the other is inconsistent in his play. I was encouraged by what Trey did against Ohio State, but he's got to be more consistent.

 

I think Trey and Anthony need to put their heads together and "bottle up" whatever was said or happened at Ohio state and ride with it the rest of the year. Like Coach Woodson has said every game some has to step up and lead. He can tell them what he wants, but they have to believe it, want it and make it happen on the floor.....

Obviously Trey was fed up at half time at OSU and made an executive decision pull the team together and make them believe. This was similar to what TJD did last year when he was tired of he and the team getting pushed around. We could be looking at that very moment as the catalyst to somewhat saving our season. We will see. 

[13th&Jackson]

2 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said:

This was similar to what TJD did last year when he was tired of he and the team getting pushed around. We could be looking at that very moment as the catalyst to somewhat saving our season. We will see. 

I felt like it was a disservice to TJD that through four years and two coaching staffs, they never put shooters around him. He spent his career being double and triple teamed. He should have won more during his career if he had a better supporting cast. Seeing the exact same thing  this season with Malik. 

[IUFLA]

12 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I don’t know of anyone especially here that has an “agenda” of being “right” and rooting for the team to fail. That would be some kind of massive ego. Actually Dakich comes to mind. But he’s not here on this board.

I hated the hire myself but here I am still rooting for the team as we all sink in the same quick sand.

My boys middle school coach who is with AAU and an IU grad told me two days ago that the general consensus around his group is that everyone wants a change and can see it’s not panning out.

When I go to my office I have several IU lifers & alum that say the same things that’s being said here. Woodson just isn’t IU level college coach material unless he has help getting the right pieces. And even then he still needs help. Look at all the help he surrounds himself with.

No one has a personal issue with the staff as people. The issue comes from playing terrible basketball. We all just want to win. Especially at home. And if we can’t win, we want to be proud of the attempt and feel like we are good enough to beat them next time.

Woodson, Hunter or whomever had these tremendous accolades, needs to figure out how to translate it to one accolade they don’t have and that’s winning big at college basketball. Because right now, they are sucking at it.

In the end, we as fans are all on the same team and of all the people I associate with daily, I’ve not heard one that said I hope the team loses.

Think about a guy like Anthony Leal for example. Putting on the jersey has been a childhood dream. I feel horrible for the kid. He’s already toughed out a coaching change. He’s in what would be his normal senior season and has been patiently waiting his turn to get minutes. I couldn’t imagine rooting against the team for a personal agenda and not considering that young fella. The kid just wants IU to win even if it means he doesn’t play.

Btw, I seen someone say he isn’t a shooter. Ask Jr Holmes about that. Shooting is his strong side. It was defense that Holmes always had an issue with.

As I said, then why disparage anything the team does, even the positives?

You, yourself point fingers at Quinn Buckner. Do you realize how much more invested in this program and school he has over pretty much anyone on this board? For some reason, a certain sect of IU fans want to tear down the people who made the program what it is. Without the likes of Woodson, Buckner, and Alford only the banners from the McCracken era would be up there...

We're not coming to common ground on this. You can think of me what you want. But to be honest, I get more disappointed with some of the rhetoric here than I ever do with the kids on the court or the coaching staff

[Inequality]

We’ve had tremendous talent come through. But without a good staff. Like mentioned above from @13th&Jackson. Trace and Malik can only do so much without the right pieces around them and without a well written program from a staff that knows the college game and how to win at it. With the correct parts and pieces imagine how much better they could develop and how much easier the game would be for all involved.

Those banners are result of Bob Knight and his ability to make it happen. From basketball wizardry, to recruiting, motivation (see pine bench example), development and preparation. It takes all the pieces to work. He brought Buckner, Woodson and Alford here. He squeezed as much potential out of them as possible to get the results he did. Because he’s one of the best to have ever coached the game.

Since he was fired we have had a few great players that gave us all they had. Every one of us at one time thought man we are lucky to have them. You know how good Kentucky would be if they had went there. They may have even turned out better with a better staff coaching them.

In my opinion, the missing piece has been a Chris Beard type that can come in and assemble all the right pieces and win.

[IUFLA]

29 minutes ago, Inequality said:

We’ve had tremendous talent come through. But without a good staff. Like mentioned above from @13th&Jackson. Trace and Malik can only do so much without the right pieces around them and without a well written program from a staff that knows the college game and how to win at it. With the correct parts and pieces imagine how much better they could develop and how much easier the game would be for all involved.

Those banners are result of Bob Knight and his ability to make it happen. From basketball wizardry, to recruiting, motivation (see pine bench example), development and preparation. It takes all the pieces to work. He brought Buckner, Woodson and Alford here. He squeezed as much potential out of them as possible to get the results he did. Because he’s one of the best to have ever coached the game.

Since he was fired we have had a few great players that have us all they had. Every one of us at one time thought man we are lucky to have them. You know how good Kentucky would be if they had went there. They may have even turned out better with a better staff coaching them.

In my opinion, the missing piece has been a Chris Beard type that can come in and assemble all the right pieces and win.

But even Bob Knight has "off" years as has been cited...

 Mike Woodson will be our coach next year, God willing, unless HE decides it's not worth it. Plus I've seen him pull his teams off the mat twice in his tenure, and this year isn't over....

I'll leave it at that

 

[btownqb]

54 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I don’t know of anyone especially here that has an “agenda” of being “right” and rooting for the team to fail. That would be some kind of massive ego. Actually Dakich comes to mind. But he’s not here on this board.

I hated the hire myself but here I am still rooting for the team as we all sink in the same quick sand.

My boys middle school coach who is with AAU and an IU grad told me two days ago that the general consensus around his group is that everyone wants a change and can see it’s not panning out.

When I go to my office I have several IU lifers & alum that say the same things that’s being said here. Woodson just isn’t IU level college coach material unless he has help getting the right pieces. And even then he still needs help. Look at all the help he surrounds himself with.

No one has a personal issue with the staff as people. The issue comes from playing terrible basketball. We all just want to win. Especially at home. And if we can’t win, we want to be proud of the attempt and feel like we are good enough to beat them next time.

Woodson, Hunter or whomever had these tremendous accolades, needs to figure out how to translate it to one accolade they don’t have and that’s winning big at college basketball. Because right now, they are sucking at it.

In the end, we as fans are all on the same team and of all the people I associate with daily, I’ve not heard one that said I hope the team loses.

Think about a guy like Anthony Leal for example. Putting on the jersey has been a childhood dream. I feel horrible for the kid. He’s already toughed out a coaching change. He’s in what would be his normal senior season and has been patiently waiting his turn to get minutes. I couldn’t imagine rooting against the team for a personal agenda and not considering that young fella. The kid just wants IU to win even if it means he doesn’t play.

Btw, I seen someone say he isn’t a shooter. Ask Jr Holmes about that. Shooting is his strong side. It was defense that Holmes always had an issue with.

I'd love to ask JR about that. Because when we scouted JR's team and AL--- that wasn't our worry, at all, and it shows in the games AL plays in and how teams guard him. 

Bomba was the shooter on that team. We played Leal as a driver and would allow him to shoot whenever he wanted from 17ft out. 

[Inequality]

16 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'd love to ask JR about that. Because when we scouted JR's team and AL--- that wasn't our worry, at all, and it shows in the games AL plays in and how teams guard him. 

Bomba was the shooter on that team. We played Leal as a driver and would allow him to shoot whenever he wanted from 17ft out. 

I don’t disagree on his slashing ability in high school. Overall Leals strong suit was offense is my overall point. However, he was and is a really good shooter. I’m a south alum, played for JR Holmes and Chris Byers. I go watch games when I get a chance. Especially now that I have a child that’s into it as well.

 

[btownqb]

20 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I don’t disagree on his slashing ability in high school. Overall Leals strong suit was offense is my overall point. However, he was and is a really good shooter. I’m a south alum, played for JR Holmes and Chris Byers. I go watch games when I get a chance. Especially now that I have a child that’s into it as well.

 

I agree with you that he was more of an offensive player than a defensive one, a lot of that is physical capabilities, but he is more than serviceable as a defender, simply because he is so smart and puts himself in the correct spot to be successful on that end of the court. "sound defender" 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just think there's a difference between "shooter" and "can make shots"... it's also not that big of a deal, and I am excited as heck for Leal that he is contributing consistently. It seems incredibly obvious how much this means to him. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back to the topic--- I apologize for veering off--- when we struggle the way we have this year this year, it makes sense to question our staff. And the same with our players, do they complement each other and mesh well? @IUFLA makes a sound point--- when guys credit staff members for working with them it's always Hulls or Calbert... maybe that's nothing, maybe it's something? It feels like there needs to be new blood there. 

[kyhoosier29]

I have a post deleted? 

[dgambill]

5 hours ago, Inequality said:

I don’t know of anyone especially here that has an “agenda” of being “right” and rooting for the team to fail. That would be some kind of massive ego. Actually Dakich comes to mind. But he’s not here on this board.

I hated the hire myself but here I am still rooting for the team as we all sink in the same quick sand.

My boys middle school coach who is with AAU and an IU grad told me two days ago that the general consensus around his group is that everyone wants a change and can see it’s not panning out.

When I go to my office I have several IU lifers & alum that say the same things that’s being said here. Woodson just isn’t IU level college coach material unless he has help getting the right pieces. And even then he still needs help. Look at all the help he surrounds himself with.

No one has a personal issue with the staff as people. The issue comes from playing terrible basketball. We all just want to win. Especially at home. And if we can’t win, we want to be proud of the attempt and feel like we are good enough to beat them next time.

Woodson, Hunter or whomever had these tremendous accolades, needs to figure out how to translate it to one accolade they don’t have and that’s winning big at college basketball. Because right now, they are sucking at it.

In the end, we as fans are all on the same team and of all the people I associate with daily, I’ve not heard one that said I hope the team loses.

Think about a guy like Anthony Leal for example. Putting on the jersey has been a childhood dream. I feel horrible for the kid. He’s already toughed out a coaching change. He’s in what would be his normal senior season and has been patiently waiting his turn to get minutes. I couldn’t imagine rooting against the team for a personal agenda and not considering that young fella. The kid just wants IU to win even if it means he doesn’t play.

Btw, I seen someone say he isn’t a shooter. Ask Jr Holmes about that. Shooting is his strong side. It was defense that Holmes always had an issue with.

Agreed. Every single person here that didn’t like the hire would gladly eat crow if it meant we were successful. I wasn’t excited or disappointed. I was more “meh” it didn’t move the needle for me until I saw him make a difference. It’s all going to come down to players in the end…we landed a lottery guard and looked what happened…but even then we still lacked shooting. We’ve lacked shooting going on a decade….thats a frustration for a fan base that can drive 20 miles in any direction on most nights during high school basketball and watch a kid make 5-6 threes on 40-50% shooting and yet we can’t land a college recruit avg 2 a night for us. It’s the rigidity of not making adjustments and changes to how we play and our lineups when most of us have received and witnessed years of HOF caliber coaching. Team that lacks basketball IQ when we all grew up with the fundamentals pounded into our brain. 
 

Hopefully Woody can turn the page and right the ship and get the program back on track…but it seems to still be just like a plastic bag….blowing in the wind and that’s worrisome.

[ledies22]

*cough. 

*reads very first sentence of the first post, and says to himself, "yah, I thought I thought I put that in there."

There is an entire thread about Woodson. Let's not take this one over as well. 

[BobSaccamanno]

One thing that’s clear is that fans don’t know who is responsible for what.  For example, I believe the assistants divide up responsibility for advanced scouting.   We can’t see the data on who was responsible for which opponents and then the results.  But you can bet that Dolson’s staff is looking into that.  

It will probably be clear after the season when changes inevitably occur.   

[BobSaccamanno]

The other thing we don’t know enough about is the GM/player personnel roles.  Bit tough to gauge from their titles.  Football is bigger but CCC has a developed team in that regard.   With the way the portal is going, you absolutely have to have a sophisticated personnel program.  
 

Woody did a very good job landing a guy like Ware out of the portal.  So he can land recruits.  Player identification and focus was more elusive.  

 Woody doesn’t have the time to have every potential transfer at his fingertips.  He needs an infrastructure to identify potential guys who can fill holes.  We might like this person or that person, but the plan when we brought in Matta as an assistant AD has fallen off the rails.  After the disaster of last offseason—which is really where this season failed—it’s clear that we need an overhaul in this area and that’s not a personal attack on any individual.  There’s no way that Dolson isn’t doing a deep dive into this.  

This gets fixed and next year we can succeed.  If we are still mediocre next year then we will have our answer.  I’d say Woody won’t have any margin at that point and that seems fair; he’d probably agree.  

Edited February 10 by BobSaccamanno

[5fouls]

Whoever game planned Penn State should probably not game plan any other games this season.  

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Whoever game planned Penn State should probably not game plan any other games this season.  

Mighta been the same coach that game planned for the 2 Penn State games last year 🙂

[BobSaccamanno]

38 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Whoever game planned Penn State should probably not game plan any other games this season.  

Wish we knew…along with a lot of the behind the scenes stuff.   I think we will get our answer when changes are made after the season.  

My prediction is they will roll out a new personnel department that will look more defined.  I suspect at least one assistant will switch out.  

[kyhoosier29]

1 hour ago, IUFLA said:

Mighta been the same coach that game planned for the 2 Penn State games last year 🙂

If that’s the case, then Woody isn’t as smart as you claim he is. I don’t think Woody should be gone after this year, maybe next, but if he allowed the same coach to game plan the game this year after the two last year…..that’s some big time negligence on his part. I’d assume he isn’t that dumb. 

[IUFLA]

3 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

If that’s the case, then Woody isn’t as smart as you claim he is. I don’t think Woody should be gone after this year, maybe next, but if he allowed the same coach to game plan the game this year after the two last year…..that’s some big time negligence on his part. I’d assume he isn’t that dumb. 

It was a joke