Is it Woodson or the Players?

[IndyResident16]

50 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You're missing the point...ANY coach can have a down season if they don't get their on the court leaders to actually lead...

And, yeah, he has earned a chance next year...

How has he “earned” a chance? This year has been an unmitigated disaster with next year having an even bleaker outlook. Not sure making the tournament after being gifted a generational talent is the barometer of success for this program.

But then again, maybe it is, that’s how far we’ve fallen as a program. Keeping a lame duck coach collecting retirement funds would be par for the course.

[IUFLA]

25 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

How has he “earned” a chance? This year has been an unmitigated disaster with next year having an even bleaker outlook. Not sure making the tournament after being gifted a generational talent is the barometer of success for this program.

But then again, maybe it is, that’s how far we’ve fallen as a program. Keeping a lame duck coach collecting retirement funds would be par for the course.

What was the bar when he got here? After not being in the tournament for 6 years, I'd say making it, right? Then improving to a 4 seed the next year... Yeah, he's earned it...

I always love the "unmitigated disaster" hyperbole... You want to see real "unmitigated disaster" look at Ann Arbor...If Woody was in his 5th with that record, not to mention the previous 2 mediocre years, then I'd be with you...

But it hasn't been that way...

And you're just going to have to abide by it... 

[HoosierDPU95]

This feels like as good a place to post this as any.

Free throws...

I've always felt the players should shoulder the majority of responsibility here. Outside of the staff providing some coaching around form and calling out guys to get their @$$ in the gym and work on it outside of practice, what else should be expected from a coaching staff? 

[IndyResident16]

52 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

What was the bar when he got here? After not being in the tournament for 6 years, I'd say making it, right? Then improving to a 4 seed the next year... Yeah, he's earned it...

I always love the "unmitigated disaster" hyperbole... You want to see real "unmitigated disaster" look at Ann Arbor...If Woody was in his 5th with that record, not to mention the previous 2 mediocre years, then I'd be with you...

But it hasn't been that way...

And you're just going to have to abide by it... 

Michigan is a football school coming off a national title. Indiana is a basketball school or at least they used to be. Notice how Michigan didn’t f*** around and wait on Rich Rod or Brady Hoke to become something it was evident they would never become. Same rule applies here. 
 

Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina wouldn’t be caught dead bringing back someone like Woodson for a 4th year. But then again they also care about basketball and have this entire time.

Arguing that Woodson will be back for year 4 because IU has an inept athletic department is one thing, arguing that Woodson deserves a 4th is another thing and is completely asinine. 

Edited February 20 by IndyResident16

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Michigan is a football school coming off a national title. Indiana is a basketball school or at least they used to be. Notice how Michigan didn’t f*** around and wait on Rich Rod or Brady Hoke to become something it was evident they would never become. Same rule applies here. 
 

Kansas, Kentucky, North Carolina wouldn’t be caught dead bringing back someone like Woodson for a 4th year. But then again they also care about basketball and have this entire time.

Did North Carolina even make the tournament last year?

And your Michigan football analogy goes flat by simply looking at Rodriguez' and Hoke's records...

Rodriguez got 3 years and was 15-22...

Hoke got 4 years and after an 11-2 first year, went 20-18 after that...

You can downplay Woody's first 2 years all you want but they weren't anywhere close to being that bad

[IndyResident16]

7 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Did North Carolina even make the tournament last year?

And your Michigan football analogy goes flat by simply looking at Rodriguez' and Hoke's records...

Rodriguez got 3 years and was 15-22...

Hoke got 4 years and after an 11-2 first year, went 20-18 after that...

You can downplay Woody's first 2 years all you want but they weren't anywhere close to being that bad

Take out the 9 or 10 cream puffs IU plays in November and December every year and he’s a .500 coach. Give it 2.5 more weeks and he’ll be several games under .500 in the B10 and the B10 the last two seasons has been AWFUL. 
 

Beating Wyoming in a play-in game and Kent State with a generational talent and several 5th and 6th year players the last two years doesn’t move the needle for me, sorry. Thinking that a 65 year old coach is going to land the necessary 5-6 players in the portal to even be competitive next year is nothing more than blind optimism. He can’t even show up to watch Trent Sisley. Mike Woodson doesn’t deserve to be a part of next years rebuild, let alone lead it.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

This feels like as good a place to post this as any.

Free throws...

I've always felt the players should shoulder the majority of responsibility here. Outside of the staff providing some coaching around form and calling out guys to get their @$$ in the gym and work on it outside of practice, what else should be expected from a coaching staff? 

Like anything it would a how much emphasis does a coaching staff put on it

 Listening to Assembly Call yesterday after the game and they had two former high school coaches on the show. Both said if a coach really puts a lot of emphasis on certain parts of the game the team will be good at it. Both said they don't see any way that this coaching staff puts a lot of emphasis on free throw shooting.

[IU Scott]

59 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Did North Carolina even make the tournament last year?

And your Michigan football analogy goes flat by simply looking at Rodriguez' and Hoke's records...

Rodriguez got 3 years and was 15-22...

Hoke got 4 years and after an 11-2 first year, went 20-18 after that...

You can downplay Woody's first 2 years all you want but they weren't anywhere close to being that bad

Didn't UNC make the championship game the year before

[tdhoosier]

12 hours ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

This feels like as good a place to post this as any.

Free throws...

I've always felt the players should shoulder the majority of responsibility here. Outside of the staff providing some coaching around form and calling out guys to get their @$$ in the gym and work on it outside of practice, what else should be expected from a coaching staff? 

I don’t coach basketball, but a coach for any sport would probably agree that reps are reps unless you do them with specificity, you do them with focus, and you do them until the little things become good habits. On even the most basic of fundamentals you try to mimic competition settings. Maybe in the case of free throws (again, I’m not a basketball coach), do them fresh, do them tired, do them when something is on the line (create a consequence if they don’t make x number of FT’s in a row), etc. 

I have no idea what IU does at practice, but I don’t buy we just happen to be bad at free throws years after year and other programs just happen to be good at free throws year after year. Yes, the players share responsibility, but when each player is not improving, or in some cases getting worse, the problem is systemic. 

Malik and Ware have a worse FT% this year than they did last year. 
Gallo has progressively gotten worse every single year he’s been here. 
Mgbako has progressively gotten worse as the season has progressed.
Cupps shot 77% in high school - he’s shooting 61% this season.

That, folks, is our starting line up, our top 5 in minutes played and they account for 87% of the free throws attempted on this team. 
 

Edited February 20 by tdhoosier

[Seeking6]

11 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Didn't UNC make the championship game the year before

Yes and they returned most of that roster when they didn't make the tourney at all.

Edited February 20 by Seeking6

[Hoosier4Life53]

24 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Yes and they returned most of that roster when they didn't make the tourney at all.

Great point, and there was a lot of chatter about firing Hubert last year in Tar Heel land. 

[IU Scott]

3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Yes and they returned most of that roster when they didn't make the tourney at all.

Just saying if Woodson had went to the championship game last year there wouldn't be this chatter about Woodson's job 

[Seeking6]

3 hours ago, Hoosier4Life53 said:

Great point, and there was a lot of chatter about firing Hubert last year in Tar Heel land. 

My neighbor is a Tar Heel guy. He wanted Hubert gone last year because of bringing back the entire team and what happened. Just shows the fickle nature for sure.

[Hoosier4Life53]

15 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

My neighbor is a Tar Heel guy. He wanted Hubert gone last year because of bringing back the entire team and what happened. Just shows the fickle nature for sure.

Agree, considering they returned almost their entire roster, last year was probably worse for UNC than this year is for us, and yet they’ve turned it around this year.

[Hoosier4Life53]

26 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

My neighbor is a Tar Heel guy. He wanted Hubert gone last year because of bringing back the entire team and what happened. Just shows the fickle nature for sure.

Yep, and does anyone think Hubert Davis is a better coach than Woodson? I don’t think so.

[13th&Jackson]

1 minute ago, Hoosier4Life53 said:

Yep, and does anyone think Hubert Davis is a better coach than Woodson? I don’t think so.

Addition by subtraction. Seven players left after last season. Replaced with 5 transfers and two freshmen. 

[Seeking6]

13 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Addition by subtraction. Seven players left after last season. Replaced with 5 transfers and two freshmen. 

So standing pat and allowing Hubert to fix the situation has worked. 

[IndyResident16]

23 minutes ago, Hoosier4Life53 said:

Yep, and does anyone think Hubert Davis is a better coach than Woodson? I don’t think so.

Seriously?

[IowaHoosierFan]

26 minutes ago, Hoosier4Life53 said:

Yep, and does anyone think Hubert Davis is a better coach than Woodson? I don’t think so.

There might be an argument there.  Just based on numbers and making it to the NC title game, even losing.  He does have better overall winning percentage and Conference percentages.  Personally, i don't think either are very good college coaches at this moment in time.

11-9 in the ACC conference last year was 7th.  HOLY SH!T

12-8 was tied for 2nd in the B1G.  What a difference.

 

Edited February 20 by IowaHoosierFan

[IndyResident16]

13 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

There might be an argument there.  Just based on numbers and making it to the NC title game, even losing.  He does have better overall winning percentage and Conference percentages.  Personally, i don't think either are very good college coaches at this moment in time.

11-9 in the ACC conference last year was 7th.  HOLY SH!T

12-8 was tied for 2nd in the B1G.  What a difference.

 

He's coached for a national title and has a top 10 team this year all within the same time frame of Woodson. It's not even a comparison. 

[NotIThatLives]

9 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

He's coached for a national title and has a top 10 team this year all within the same time frame of Woodson. It's not even a comparison. 

Let's not get carried away.  He was gifted a classic Ferrari in perfect condition with a full tank of premium.  They got hot and had a great end of season stretch but they were on the bubble much of that year before getting rolling iirc.  

Last year.  Blame it on Love.  Sure

This year.  The Ferrari and all of its support systems are full go after reloading.  We will see if IU is capable of getting better support systems and putting premium back in this old thing.  

[IndyResident16]

2 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

Let's not get carried away.  He was gifted a classic Ferrari in perfect condition with a full tank of premium.  They got hot and had a great end of season stretch but they were on the bubble much of that year before getting rolling iirc.  

Last year.  Blame it on Love.  Sure

This year.  The Ferrari and all of its support systems are full go after reloading.  We will see if IU is capable of getting better support systems and putting premium back in this old thing.  

Hubert Davis has been groomed for this job for the better part of a decade. People act like they picked him up off the street and threw him into a situation that he no input in. I guarantee you towards the end, Hubert Davis was recruiting and game planning just as much as Roy Williams. Same thing can be said with Jon Scheyer. 

[BankShot]

7 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Hubert Davis has been groomed for this job for the better part of a decade. People act like they picked him up off the street and threw him into a situation that he no input in. I guarantee you towards the end, Hubert Davis was recruiting and game planning just as much as Roy Williams. Same thing can be said with Jon Scheyer. 

Agree. Apple and orange comparison to Woodson, IMO. 

Davis has several years as a college asst. coach.

Edited February 20 by BankShot

[13th&Jackson]

28 minutes ago, IndyResident16 said:

Hubert Davis has been groomed for this job for the better part of a decade. People act like they picked him up off the street and threw him into a situation that he no input in. I guarantee you towards the end, Hubert Davis was recruiting and game planning just as much as Roy Williams. Same thing can be said with Jon Scheyer. 

Right. That's why IU had Thad Matta. But we lost that after year 1. 

"I remember telling him, 'Hey, we're up for a foreign trip,'" Matta said Wednesday in a news conference after the introduction for his return to coaching at Butler. "I said, 'I'll try to get something in The Bahamas. We'll fly in a pro team and we'll play them.'" 

Woodson, who spent most of the previous 25 years coaching in the NBA and hadn't been part of college basketball since he graduated from IU in 1980, didn't even know a foreign tour was an option. 

"He said, 'Wait a minute, I can coach my team this summer?'" Matta said. "He just got as excited as he could be."

[Hoosier4Life53]

2 hours ago, IndyResident16 said:

He's coached for a national title and has a top 10 team this year all within the same time frame of Woodson. It's not even a comparison. 

Sounds like a Tar Heel fan to me. I’d take Woodson any day.