btownqb Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 4 minutes ago, Drroogh said: Not to mention get double digit rebounds most games. He's a little above avg. Nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 4 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Sucks for the Pacers that if Vic would’ve had just one good game from Games 3-5 they probably would have won this series. But can’t really be disappointed with the way it played out, was a battle to the very end. Good to see Vic finish the series on a high note with two great games — he’s reached legit superstar status. Great season for the Pacers, and they have some good young pieces to build around. Well we won game 3; game 4 and 5 were both decided on absolutely terrible calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 For those that are interested. Oladipo's last second 3 was $3-$5 Million swing in Vegas. Went from Cavs covering to Pacers covering with that shot. Smart money was on Pacers according to Vegas Casinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoosierBGH Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 16 hours ago, Drroogh said: Wouldn't it be great to see OG defend Lebron in the next round and hold him to only being human!! OG can probably do it.... for one game and then he will pick up a bunch of quick fouls early in the remaining games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 12 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Well we won game 3; game 4 and 5 were both decided on absolutely terrible calls. Don’t think those games were “decided” on terrible calls. To complain about the Lance headlock being called a foul in Game 4 is ridiculous (if that’s what you’re talking about). And yeah, the goaltending in Game 5 was the wrong call, but it was a bang-bang play, and the Lebron three would’ve won them the game anyway. “But they might have called a different play” is just a weak excuse. Way too much whining by Pacers fans about the refs in this series imo. Pacers got some favorable calls themselves in Game 7 to help keep them in it. But to my point, the Pacers came damn close to winning Games 4 and 5 even with Vic playing terribly. If he plays well in either one of those games, the Pacers are headed to Toronto this week. Not trying to knock him at all, as I think he really had a great series overall, all things considered. This was his second playoff series ever, his first as his team’s primary option, and he took Lebron to the brink. Will make him a lot better going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 59 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: Don’t think those games were “decided” on terrible calls. To complain about the Lance headlock being called a foul in Game 4 is ridiculous (if that’s what you’re talking about). And yeah, the goaltending in Game 5 was the wrong call, but it was a bang-bang play, and the Lebron three would’ve won them the game anyway. “But they might have called a different play” is just a weak excuse. Way too much whining by Pacers fans about the refs in this series imo. Pacers got some favorable calls themselves in Game 7 to help keep them in it. But to my point, the Pacers came damn close to winning Games 4 and 5 even with Vic playing terribly. If he plays well in either one of those games, the Pacers are headed to Toronto this week. Not trying to knock him at all, as I think he really had a great series overall, all things considered. This was his second playoff series ever, his first as his team’s primary option, and he took Lebron to the brink. Will make him a lot better going forward. The foul on Lance was an atrocious call. Even if I grant that he had him in a headlock for sake of discussion, it was after a jump ball and travel occurred (and only happened because of Green trying to pull the ball away). It was called a jump initially on the floor then the ref under the basket came in and called a foul. The goaltend absolutely decided the game. There's almost no way Lebron even shoots a three there if they're down two (or three because he fouled Vic too). If you don't think that changes how that's approached from a play call standpoint and a mental standpoint I'm not sure what to tell you; it demonstrably does change those things. Its also ridiculously laughable to say the Pacers got calls last night. What calls were those? The LBJ offensive foul after the Cavs mugged the Pacers twice on the play? The Turner and 1 that they fouled him out on? The BS techs on Collison and Lance? Remind me which calls were so bad that went in the Pacers favor. The Pacers outscored the Cavs by 40 in the series. They were clearly the better team and clearly got the short end of the stick from the refs. Sure, they could have done some things better but if that's your go to argument let's just pretend the refs, who are 1/3 of the participants in the competition, don't exist. The mindset that well a team didnt play perfect so they can't complain is absolute BS and doesn't fly anywhere else in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: The foul on Lance was an atrocious call. Even if I grant that he had him in a headlock for sake of discussion, it was after a jump ball and travel occurred (and only happened because of Green trying to pull the ball away). It was called a jump initially on the floor then the ref under the basket came in and called a foul. The goaltend absolutely decided the game. There's almost no way Lebron even shoots a three there if they're down two (or three because he fouled Vic too). If you don't think that changes how that's approached from a play call standpoint and a mental standpoint I'm not sure what to tell you; it demonstrably does change those things. Its also ridiculously laughable to say the Pacers got calls last night. What calls were those? The LBJ offensive foul after the Cavs mugged the Pacers twice on the play? The Turner and 1 that they fouled him out on? The BS techs on Collison and Lance? Remind me which calls were so bad that went in the Pacers favor. The Pacers outscored the Cavs by 40 in the series. They were clearly the better team and clearly got the short end of the stick from the refs. Sure, they could have done some things better but if that's your go to argument let's just pretend the refs, who are 1/3 of the participants in the competition, don't exist. The mindset that well a team didnt play perfect so they can't complain is absolute BS and doesn't fly anywhere else in life. The only people who think the foul on Lance in Game 4 was a bad call are Pacers fans. The goaltend is what is, the wrong call, but the type of bang-bang play that gets missed all the time in the playoffs. Not saying there were no bad calls or that there was nothing to complain about, but Pacers fans are acting like the refs were egregiously bad and the only reason the Pacers lost, and that’s just not true. The refs were no better or worse in this series than any other (talk to Thunder fans about the “missed calls” on PG), and when your best player goes cold for a three game stretch, you’re not going to beat Lebron in a seven game series. Pacers were absolutely not a clearly better team than the Cavs, mostly because they don’t have the best player in the world like the Cavs do. If they were “clearly better,” they would have won the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: If they were “clearly better,” they would have won the series. That isn't true. My case in point would be the '88, '89, and '90 Oakland A's. They were clearly the best team in baseball in that span. But yet won only one WS. This stuff happens in the NBA as well, even Cav's fans are saying the P's were the better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, FW_Hoosier said: The only people who think the foul on Lance in Game 4 was a bad call are Pacers fans. The goaltend is what is, the wrong call, but the type of bang-bang play that gets missed all the time in the playoffs. Not saying there were no bad calls or that there was nothing to complain about, but Pacers fans are acting like the refs were egregiously bad and the only reason the Pacers lost, and that’s just not true. The refs were no better or worse in this series than any other (talk to Thunder fans about the “missed calls” on PG), and when your best player goes cold for a three game stretch, you’re not going to beat Lebron in a seven game series. Pacers were absolutely not a clearly better team than the Cavs, mostly because they don’t have the best player in the world like the Cavs do. If they were “clearly better,” they would have won the series. There are plenty of people who think it was a bad call on Lance except for Pacers fan. That's an utterly ridiculous statement to make that no one, besides Pacer fans, thought that was a bad call. I'd be curious to know what the actual foul you think Lance committed there is? Don't just say headlock, or takedown, but actually explain the play and where Lance fouled. The only way you could say the Pacers weren't the better team would be if you believe that NBA officials can't change the outcome of a series. Do you believe that to be true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FW_Hoosier Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: There are plenty of people who think it was a bad call on Lance except for Pacers fan. That's an utterly ridiculous statement to make that no one, besides Pacer fans, thought that was a bad call. I'd be curious to know what the actual foul you think Lance committed there is? Don't just say headlock, or takedown, but actually explain the play and where Lance fouled. The only way you could say the Pacers weren't the better team would be if you believe that NBA officials can't change the outcome of a series. Do you believe that to be true? Lol, Lance grabbed him around the arms and neck and threw him on the ground. I don’t need to go look up the NBA rulebook to know that’s a foul. Why dont you tell me why it wasn’t a foul? And either way, it was a totally reasonable call any way you look at it, not “atrocious” in the slightest. And the statement that “the only way you could say the Pacers weren’t the better team would be if you believe that NBA officials can’t change the outcome of a series” is a totally laughable logical fallacy. Have you stopped beating your wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, FW_Hoosier said: Lol, Lance grabbed him around the arms and neck and threw him on the ground. I don’t need to go look up the NBA rulebook to know that’s a foul. Why dont you tell me why it wasn’t a foul? And either way, it was a totally reasonable call any way you look at it, not “atrocious” in the slightest. And the statement that “the only way you could say the Pacers weren’t the better team would be if you believe that NBA officials can’t change the outcome of a series” is a totally laughable logical fallacy. Have you stopped beating your wife? Lance grabbed the ball, after Green traveled, then Green tried to rip the ball away. Anything that happened after that would be after the jump ball, which was the very first call on the floor. Do you need to see a photo where the only call being made is the jump ball? Alright, I'll rephrase because apparently, you are thinking of a few exceptions that are worse than this series. Do you think NBA officials can change the outcome of a series? If so, what would have to happen that didn't happen in a series in which the losing team outscored the winning team by 40 and had many controversial calls go against them in every single game they lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoHoosier Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 4 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Not saying there were no bad calls or that there was nothing to complain about, but Pacers fans are acting like the refs were egregiously bad and the only reason the Pacers lost, and that’s just not true. I wouldn't say that Pacers fans are acting like its the only reason they lost, I would say its the only thing we can hope is changed and can complain about at this point. Good message board material. The Pacers had plenty of opportunities, some of which were derailed by whistles or non-calls, but again, they still had opportunities outside of that. They simply had to take advantage a number more opportunities that what their opponent did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 hours ago, FW_Hoosier said: Lol, Lance grabbed him around the arms and neck and threw him on the ground. I don’t need to go look up the NBA rulebook to know that’s a foul. Why dont you tell me why it wasn’t a foul? And either way, it was a totally reasonable call any way you look at it, not “atrocious” in the slightest. And the statement that “the only way you could say the Pacers weren’t the better team would be if you believe that NBA officials can’t change the outcome of a series” is a totally laughable logical fallacy. Have you stopped beating your wife? Another great reference is the St. Louis Cardinals lost the 1985 WS because of one call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUALUM03 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, PoHoosier said: I wouldn't say that Pacers fans are acting like its the only reason they lost, I would say its the only thing we can hope is changed and can complain about at this point. Good message board material. The Pacers had plenty of opportunities, some of which were derailed by whistles or non-calls, but again, they still had opportunities outside of that. They simply had to take advantage a number more opportunities that what their opponent did. My argument isn't so much the calls themselves, but the momentum that it gave the Cavs, specifically Lebron, who needs no help in being great. Lebron legitimately barrels down the lane and will put shoulders and elbows in the defender and get the call every time, yet we do the same and get offensive fouls or no call. How about the fact that Lebron is always doing a lane violation when shoots free throws or the lack of traveling calls that are not afforded other players. The Game 5 no goal tending call was not just a missed goaltending, but also a missed foul on Lebron. He grabbed Vic's right arm going up which caused Oladipo to adjust in a way which created the chance for him to block (goaltend) the shot in the first place. There is an overhead shot of the play illustrating this. Often times these no calls or bad calls cause a ton of momentum for Lebron, which they should do just the opposite. So we are not talking about one no call equating to 2 or 3 points, but turning into a 10 point run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUALUM03 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 Here is the overhead video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 Stephen A. apparently said on ESPN this morning that the series was 8 v 5 and there was no way the NBA was going to let the Pacers win. I'm not his biggest fan, but for him to say that is pretty telling about how the series went. The three Pacers wins were two blowouts, and a game where they were up 7 with 40 seconds left. So essentially, every game where there was a good chance for the result to change at the end went the Cavs way.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 Let's also not forget the phantom "offensive foul" late in Game 3 after Young's dunk put the Pacers up 9. The whistle didn't blow until the ball was in the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 24 minutes ago, TheWatShot said: Let's also not forget the phantom "offensive foul" late in Game 3 after Young's dunk put the Pacers up 9. The whistle didn't blow until the ball was in the net. That call could have cost us game 3. I was livid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billingsley99 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 39 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Stephen A. apparently said on ESPN this morning that the series was 8 v 5 and there was no way the NBA was going to let the Pacers win. I'm not his biggest fan, but for him to say that is pretty telling about how the series went. The three Pacers wins were two blowouts, and a game where they were up 7 with 40 seconds left. So essentially, every game where there was a good chance for the result to change at the end went the Cavs way.... Stephen A and brian Windhurst are on LeBrons jock as far as anyone can be and they both said the Pacers outplayed the Cavs and were clearly the better team. I guarantee everyone person associated with the cavs gained a ton of respect for Vic and the Pacers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUALUM03 Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said: Stephen A and brian Windhurst are on LeBrons jock as far as anyone can be and they both said the Pacers outplayed the Cavs and were clearly the better team. I guarantee everyone person associated with the cavs gained a ton of respect for Vic and the Pacers Speaking of this, if Lebron is seriously looking at a team he could help take them to the next level, the Pacers make the most sense. I don't necessarily want this, but just as an interesting convo. The Pacers compliment his strengths more than any other team mentioned outside of Houston and I am not so sure there as well, only because Harden is so ball dominant. He would stunt Simmons growth in Philly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 3 hours ago, IUALUM03 said: Speaking of this, if Lebron is seriously looking at a team he could help take them to the next level, the Pacers make the most sense. I don't necessarily want this, but just as an interesting convo. The Pacers compliment his strengths more than any other team mentioned outside of Houston and I am not so sure there as well, only because Harden is so ball dominant. He would stunt Simmons growth in Philly. And that Sir is a very interesting thing I hadn't thought of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 7 hours ago, KoB2011 said: Stephen A. apparently said on ESPN this morning that the series was 8 v 5 and there was no way the NBA was going to let the Pacers win. I'm not his biggest fan, but for him to say that is pretty telling about how the series went. The three Pacers wins were two blowouts, and a game where they were up 7 with 40 seconds left. So essentially, every game where there was a good chance for the result to change at the end went the Cavs way.... I thought they would pull Van Gundy from the broadcast the way he was bashing the refs. He wasn't the only national media guy talking about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 Just now, NotIThatLives said: I thought they would pull Van Gundy from the broadcast the way he was bashing the refs. He wasn't the only national media guy talking about this. So true. Am I the only one who decided to stop thinking fondly of Mark Jackson after that series? His defense of it all was pathetic but I loved Van Gundy calling it for what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted May 1, 2018 Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: So true. Am I the only one who decided to stop thinking fondly of Mark Jackson after that series? His defense of it all was pathetic but I loved Van Gundy calling it for what it was. I typically don't like Van Gundy. He seems like he thinks he's basketball's smartest man most of the time I hear him talk. He was on Dakich after game 1 and admitted it was the 2nd time he watched the Pacers all season. Are you freaking serious. Now, onto Mark Jackson. He was bad. I'm figuring there is some motive there. His next job? His current job? I don't know. I do know he was pretty terrible and I wasn't the only guy in the room to think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danomatic Posted May 1, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2018 My final thoughts on this series are that it was quite clear the NBA wanted the Cavs to advance. To say that the Pacers weren’t the better team is pretty comical. When was the last time that a team went on to win a playoff series with a -39 point differential? That’s gotta be some kind of unprecedented statistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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