PGA/General Golf

[Seeking6]

9 minutes ago, Indykev said:

I was wrong about the commish. After taking to an old boss. The player board has no say in the hiring or firing of the commish. The executive board makes that decision. The players only have one seat on that board. I was told the players ask the commish to resign during the player meeting yesterday.

Being reported Norman telling the Liv staff Liv isn't going anywhere. The PIF doesn't own LIV.

The way I understand it is Monahan basically has unilateral authority.....as long as the board are full of his people.

In terms of Norman. I know the stories you've shared and we appreciate them so I won't go much more into him besides saying it looks like he'll get paid for his time but otherwise was being used in a game of much bigger chess.

I'm hopeful that in 6 months everyone will just say welp....we're playing for a ton more $ and I guess that's ok. Otherwise so much egg to clean up on so many aisles on this one. I keep thinking I'm missing something here.

[Indykev]

3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

The way I understand it is Monahan basically has unilateral authority.....as long as the board are full of his people.

In terms of Norman. I know the stories you've shared and we appreciate them so I won't go much more into him besides saying it looks like he'll get paid for his time but otherwise was being used in a game of much bigger chess.

I'm hopeful that in 6 months everyone will just say welp....we're playing for a ton more $ and I guess that's ok. Otherwise so much egg to clean up on so many aisles on this one. I keep thinking I'm missing something here.

With the PIF guy Chairman of the board, I can't wait to see what happens. Money is power here and he is the money. He just doubled the value of the tour. But like always, the rich will get richer and the bottom half of the tour will be left behind.

[Indykev]

9 hours ago, dgambill said:

You obviously would know better about unionizing but to me it’s the only way they gain some control of their tour. They taste in their mouth has to be really bad. If this wouldn’t galvanize them nothing would. I mean the nba, nfl, mlb have lots more members and they unionized…and you don’t have to agree on everything to unionize…sure that makes a stronger Union and bargaining power but to get it started you just have to agree that you want to unionize and you would then need representation. Golf is pretty unique sport because advertising really follows the players…look how just a handful of top players were able to cause such a shakeup by leaving and partnering elsewhere. If those top guys worked together they surely could do the same. Obviously it might not happen…but I do think this is an inflection point…if it ever was to happen now is the time. The public, the advertisers, and many of the players are upset enough that this would be the optimal time.

The top players dont care about the bottom half of the tour. There is a saying on Tour. Half the guys hope you play bad, the other half hope you play worse than that. Rory was told to shut the F*#K up in the player meeting because he told a bottom half player to play better after that player voiced concern over more money going to the top players.

[Indykev]

Its being reported John Rahm is in final talks to join LIV. Another reason the TOUR caved.

[dgambill]

14 hours ago, Indykev said:

I was wrong about the commish. After taking to an old boss. The player board has no say in the hiring or firing of the commish. The executive board makes that decision. The players only have one seat on that board. I was told the players ask the commish to resign during the player meeting yesterday.

Being reported Norman telling the Liv staff Liv isn't going anywhere. The PIF doesn't own LIV.

If it’s being funded by PIF then they own it lol. So once the money runs out it’s over if they choose to do so. The reports I heard was that indeed there is no intention of shutting down LIV at this time….a lot for the two organizations to iron out obviously. 
 

So imo wouldn’t it make a lot of sense if say the PGA used LIV in its current evolution to promote the game of golf. Say make LIV this all-star cast of the best golfers….they get guaranteed money to travel all over the world with the current LIV setup and be like an all star tour of say 16 events (perhaps the players only have to appear in half and they balance it out with maybe 4 anchor tournaments where they all appear). Then the PGA works with those players for their exemptions to play on the PGA where they get into the majors and say a minimum of 4-5 other core events (so like 8-8 on each tour). I’ll be honest I don’t know how many events players usually play in…but to me LIV can be very useful globally…especially if it’s partnered on tv with PGA (golf Chanel etc) if it’s used as an extension of PGA tour as kind of a tour of champions/all star barn storming tour. Don’t know if that even makes sense but to me wouldnt that be a goal of both organizations?

Edited June 8, 2023 by dgambill

[Indykev]

3 hours ago, dgambill said:

If it’s being funded by PIF then they own it lol. So once the money runs out it’s over if they choose to do so. The reports I heard was that indeed there is no intention of shutting down LIV at this time….a lot for the two organizations to iron out obviously. 
 

So imo wouldn’t it make a lot of sense if say the PGA used LIV in its current evolution to promote the game of golf. Say make LIV this all-star cast of the best golfers….they get guaranteed money to travel all over the world with the current LIV setup and be like an all star tour of say 16 events (perhaps the players only have to appear in half and they balance it out with maybe 4 anchor tournaments where they all appear). Then the PGA works with those players for their exemptions to play on the PGA where they get into the majors and say a minimum of 4-5 other core events (so like 8-8 on each tour). I’ll be honest I don’t know how many events players usually play in…but to me LIV can be very useful globally…especially if it’s partnered on tv with PGA (golf Chanel etc) if it’s used as an extension of PGA tour as kind of a tour of champions/all star barn storming tour. Don’t know if that even makes sense but to me wouldnt that be a goal of both organizations?

Nike is said to be ready to buy Brooks team for 1 Billion. I could see Sponsors putting money into LIV. If Rahm joins I think it opens the flood gates. The best player in the world. You would then have 3 current major holders in LIV. That would crush tour sponsors. After next week LIV could have another Major. The guys went to LIV to play less. I can't see them all running back now they have to play 25 events.

So much to figure out and they have no idea how to do it.

[dgambill]

30 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Nike is said to be ready to buy Brooks team for 1 Billion. I could see Sponsors putting money into LIV. If Rahm joins I think it opens the flood gates. The best player in the world. You would then have 3 current major holders in LIV. That would crush tour sponsors. After next week LIV could have another Major. The guys went to LIV to play less. I can't see them all running back now they have to play 25 events.

So much to figure out and they have no idea how to do it.

Yeah no doubt not to play more…but if say they play 16-20 a year. 8-10 on each tour with the LIV events being guaranteed payments and 54 holes etc then maybe they would agree to play some 4-5 non-majors on the pga…as a way to keep both tours visibility high and assist those other elevated tournaments. I am not sure what they normally play and what would be enough in each bucket to keep both tours viable etc….but no doubt the tour was bleeding money from sponsors and the tour was paying the extra prize money this year and the sponsors weren’t going to pick up those tabs next year if the top draws weren’t going to be there. PGA just ran into someone with much deeper pockets and they can’t compete so they are going to try to salvage a relationship as opposed to fighting and losing more money in court for years.

The idea of taking these top players to be accessible globally like the LIV does and to make the tournaments more accessible for avg fans it certainly could help elevate the games view and accessibility globally.

Edited June 8, 2023 by dgambill

[Indykev]

I made about 20 phone calls today, the stuff being thrown around is unreal. It wasn't just Rahm that was going to LIV. I hope ALL the names come out. I'll put it like this. The tour would have been over. Guys HATE the new elevated events and the fact they have to play maybe 30 weeks, when all said and done. There was talk of not playing this week, walking out to forming a tour ran by the players, I laughed at that one. DP tour issued fines today to LIV players that aren't and werent members of that tour. I find the fine thing laughable. Not starting merger off right by doing that. Rory went from yesterday, I hate LIV to today, its going to happen, get use to it. What a Douche. The 2 faces of the PGA Tour, 1 can't walk or play or stay out of court because of women. The other hasn't won a major in 9 years. But hey they have their indoor golf league to fall back on. They sold their first team to the Williams sisters. Everyone laughed at LIV, cant wait for that shit show to start.

Oh....and we haven't yet heard from the Government. The commish and all his brain cells admitted on LIVE tv that the merger was to eliminate the competition. GENIUS he is not. LIV could run right to court tomorrow and play that tape loud and clear. Federal antitrust laws were just broken for everyone to hear. One of my old bosses pointed that out. I had to go back and listen to it.

Anyway, i'm going to not comment on this again until the info starts pouring out from the powers that be.

[Kdug]

The Saudi's played this out to a point where it was basically a win-win for them. Their golf league was a joke and losing money with profitability likely never coming, and had little to no fan interest. But they didn't need it to be a legitimate commercial product. They just needed it to exist so they could put legal pressure on the PGA, while also backing the PGA into a corner where they needed to keep increasing the purses to keep their top players, despite not having the long term money to do so. Unlike LIV, the PGA had to make commercial sense long term, so looking back this seemed like an inevitability.

I find it interesting that everyone seems to be counting this as a win for the LIV guys. It's obviously a win for the PIF who got exactly what they wanted, but the LIV tour and players are TBD to me. They get the win in terms of being able to say I told you so, but now there's a lot of uncertainty about their future since LIV is likely done after this year, and now they could be without a tour depending on how easy/difficult it is to regain PGA tour membership.

Oh, all of this assumes the deal goes through, which is far from a certainty. The Saudi's were banging the antitrust drum before this deal. If that didn't catch the attention of regulators, a deal that literally creates a monopoly likely will. I would not be surprised if this has some issues on that front.

[Kdug]

5 hours ago, Indykev said:

I made about 20 phone calls today, the stuff being thrown around is unreal. It wasn't just Rahm that was going to LIV. I hope ALL the names come out. I'll put it like this. The tour would have been over. Guys HATE the new elevated events and the fact they have to play maybe 30 weeks, when all said and done. There was talk of not playing this week, walking out to forming a tour ran by the players, I laughed at that one. DP tour issued fines today to LIV players that aren't and werent members of that tour. I find the fine thing laughable. Not starting merger off right by doing that. Rory went from yesterday, I hate LIV to today, its going to happen, get use to it. What a Douche. The 2 faces of the PGA Tour, 1 can't walk or play or stay out of court because of women. The other hasn't won a major in 9 years. But hey they have their indoor golf league to fall back on. They sold their first team to the Williams sisters. Everyone laughed at LIV, cant wait for that shit show to start.

Oh....and we haven't yet heard from the Government. The commish and all his brain cells admitted on LIVE tv that the merger was to eliminate the competition. GENIUS he is not. LIV could run right to court tomorrow and play that tape loud and clear. Federal antitrust laws were just broken for everyone to hear. One of my old bosses pointed that out. I had to go back and listen to it.

Anyway, i'm going to not comment on this again until the info starts pouring out from the powers that be.

So I watched Rory's interview and he said he hated and still hates LIV. Do you have the quote where he said he was now ok with it? The quote I heard was that he had accepted that Saudi money was going to be in the sport, which I don't ever recall that portion being what he had an issue with - that part was all on Monahan's side.

[Seeking6]

Equity stakes for the players who didn't leave for LIV. I'm going to keep waiting for more details to keep coming out until I really grasp everything but this makes sense. Reward the players in the for profit entity that remained.

[Seeking6]

16 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Equity stakes for the players who didn't leave for LIV. I'm going to keep waiting for more details to keep coming out until I really grasp everything but this makes sense. Reward the players in the for profit entity that remained.

Additionally LIV will be done after this year. Fines will be on a case by case basis with stiffest of penalties who sued the PGA and actively recruited others to join them. 

Grab the popcorn. 

[5fouls]

I dont understand why a PGA tour pro would hate an increased number of elevated events.  Anyone have an opinion on why?

[Seeking6]

On 6/10/2023 at 5:32 PM, 5fouls said:

I dont understand why a PGA tour pro would hate an increased number of elevated events.  Anyone have an opinion on why?

Just seeing this. My guess is the schedule and the timing. I know that it seemed like March had quite a few and to have one the week after Masters seemed odd. Might be the same after this weeks Open you have an elevated event at Travelers. Just my guess though.

[Seeking6]

Man I had Hatton in my pool this week but sure would be cool with losing to Taylor. I think it would be first time for Canadian to win their tour...although Tommy "Fairway Jesus" Fleetwood might ruin the party.

[Seeking6]

17 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Man I had Hatton in my pool this week but sure would be cool with losing to Taylor. I think it would be first time for Canadian to win their tour...although Tommy "Fairway Jesus" Fleetwood might ruin the party.

Update....Fairway Jesus went rough rough on 18. Tommy seems like a good dude so I hate that for any golfer.

[Drroogh]

Are you serious!

[Seeking6]

US Open week! Besides the rough (which I've always viewed as borderline ridiculous) this course (7 and 11) feature 2 of the longest Par 3's in US Open History behind #8 a Oakmont. Both are around 290 yards.

Don't know a thing about the course otherwise.

[tdhoosier]

21 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

US Open week! Besides the rough (which I've always viewed as borderline ridiculous) this course (7 and 11) feature 2 of the longest Par 3's in US Open History behind #8 a Oakmont. Both are around 290 yards.

Don't know a thing about the course otherwise.

insane. AND look at the green on #11, the 290 yard par 3. WTF!!!!

...DeChambeau will probably hit a 5 iron into it. haha. 

[Seeking6]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

insane. AND look at the green on #11, the 290 yard par 3. WTF!!!!

...DeChambeau will probably hit a 5 iron into it. haha. 

Judging by that photo it's downhill so I guess that helps a bit. Maybe plays like 250 but still....you might have guys just praying they end up in trap and get try to sand save all week because the rough is at least a one shot penalty.

[tdhoosier]

32 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Judging by that photo it's downhill so I guess that helps a bit. Maybe plays like 250 but still....you might have guys just praying they end up in trap and get try to sand save all week because the rough is at least a one shot penalty.

A summary. 

 

[5fouls]

Long story regarding how the merger came to be.  I read some of it, skimmed some of it, and skipped over other parts entirely.  Nothing I read changes my mind or the way I feel about it.

https://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/37837794/inside-pga-tour-liv-golf-saudi-public-investment-fund-deal

 

[tdhoosier]

 

[5fouls]

On 6/7/2023 at 11:21 PM, Indykev said:

Its being reported John Rahm is in final talks to join LIV. Another reason the TOUR caved.

Rahm coming out and saying he felt betrayed by PGA management by the merger news would seem to contradict that.

[Seeking6]

14 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Rahm coming out and saying he felt betrayed by PGA management by the merger news would seem to contradict that.

He added this afternoon he thought the LIV rumors were amusing.

Regarding this week....I have no clue. Fast greens, horrible rough, tough track. Would be tough to go anything other than chalk with Scottie, Brooks, Rahm...but I keep coming back to Cameron Smith because of the greens. He loves them fast. Home and Theegala are local and could be top 10 easy.

My biggest fanduel lineup I went Scottie, Brooks, Cameron, Fleetwood, Cole, and Sargent.