Conference record expectation

[morganmonroe]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

We an't be 20-9 going into the BTT because we play 31 games so you forgot the two games against Arkansas and ND

Notre Dame (-7) 

Arkansas  (-4) 

So it's 20-9 plus those two  (2-0)  22-9 total.  Thanks for playing.    

[IowaHoosierFan]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

I appreciate the explanation too. I'm not completely onboard with some it, but I appreciate it. I agree, I don't trust this team yet either. I'm not sure we can score enough points, consistently against good teams, especially on the road. 

Where I disagree is that our offense is fine from a schematic standpoint, especially this year. There is way more off the ball movement, way more ball movement, and way more screening off the ball. We've run flex at times and we're running our wings off screens to get open. Otherwise, we pretty much run the same offense as almost everyone else.

Basketball has actually gotten pretty boring and cookie cutter in terms of offensive creativity (in terms of styles of offense, not players being creative) with the increased emphasis on analytics. Pretty much everyone runs a series of actions to ultimately get into an advantageous ball screen situation to create mismatches. That's what most teams do. 

Our problem is more of the players. No, I'm not blaming the players or saying we don't have talent, I'm just saying that we don't have shot-makers on this team. We don't have playmakers. We don't have many guys that can just go get us buckets in the offense. If anything, you can call that a recruiting issue.

Other than Green, and he's wildly inconsistent, we don't have wings and guards that the other team is scared of going off, or that can get hot from 3 and just nail 3 three's in a 2-3 minute period, or cross people up and knock down 3 or 4 mid-range jumpers in a row. We also don't have a single big that can stretch the floor. That makes IU much easier to guard. 

So while I get criticism of recruiting in terms of bringing in another point guard, bringing in guys that can score (Hunter's setback really hurts here too) and getting bigs that can stretch the floor, I don't really get criticism of the offense from a schematic standpoint. 

Schematically, what is your issue with the offense? 

I really don’t like that we don’t run off screens or really move cross court. All we run is 4 guys around the parameter and do to much weavIng and get way into the shot clock abs tend to take bad shots.  I feel like we don't really have an identiy.  

And I agree we don't really have good shooters.

[zerawkid]

Call me crazy, I think I see 12 wins there. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, zerawkid said:

Call me crazy, I think I see 12 wins there. 

You’re crazy!

and I hope you’re right 😁

[BornHoosier]

On 12/11/2019 at 6:08 PM, Seeking6 said:

I got us at 13-7. Thing I like about this conference schedule is when and who we play. There aren't stretches where we could lose 4 of 5 with the exception of Feb 16 to March 1st and even during that time I see 2-3. 

Get Rob healthy. Other players figuring out where and how they will contribute. Wins like last night actually have me more confident over the course of a season not less. 

Exactly, get OUR best player healthy and lets see what we actually got before making judgment.  Can’t see us missing the Tournament w/o key injuries knock on WOOD

[IUFan4Life]

9 hours ago, 5fouls said:

So, you don't usually like my posts because you don't think I have a reasonable mind.  

I'm confused fouls. You've been married 5 times AND claim to have a reasonable mind? 🤪

[BornHoosier]

10 hours ago, BGleas said:

I'm all for criticisms that are fair. I think Archie deserves some recruiting criticism. We only have 1 point guard, we still don't have reliable scorers/shooters and we don't have a single big that can stretch the floor. Another criticism I have is overall culture. I like the types of players he's recruiting in terms of character, etc., but I don't feel he's done great in establishing his personality as the personality of his teams. 

I think it's better this season than the previous two. But I did expect with Archie that we'd be one of those teams you always hear announcers say, "this team just exudes the head coaches personality and culture.", and I don't think that's really happened yet, and I'm not sure why? I think a part is that he still has numerous "Crean guys" that don't really fit that mold, but still while it's better, it's year 3 and isn't where it needs to be. 

Substitution patterns and adjustments, which are the typical fan default when complaining, don't really fit for me, but they get brought up a lot. 

Guess Romeo Langford didn’t fit the mold?  Guess Trayce Jackson Davis doesn’t fit the mold?  Problem is both these guys fit the mold but chose or will chose to jump to the League before finishing what they accomplished.  Cody Zeller after a Soph yr or Noah V after a Frosh yr?? Problem is NONE of these players did anything in the NBA until a cple yrs in the developmental league and I’m still waiting for their Stardom!!!  Cody, Noah & Langford are NOnames so far and their decisions to leave early are dumbfounding!!!  TJD please see above post!

[Zlinedavid]

8 hours ago, IUFan4Life said:

I'm confused fouls. You've been married 5 times AND claim to have a reasonable mind? 🤪

I've only been married once and I lost my reasonable mind a long time ago. 

Come to think of it......those two things happened about the same time.....

[BGleas]

12 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I really don’t like that we don’t run off screens or really move cross court. All we run is 4 guys around the parameter and do to much weavIng and get way into the shot clock abs tend to take bad shots.  I feel like we don't really have an identiy.  

And I agree we don't really have good shooters.

We do run off screens though. Devonte Green was being run off screens all night against UConn. We've run the flex at times as well. Yes, we also run the perimeter handoff action to ultimately get into an advantageous ball screen to create mismatches, but again 99% of the teams in the country run that. 

I think our big issue is just not have play/shot makers on the roster. Do you really see other teams running different stuff than IU?

[Hoosierhoopster]

41 minutes ago, Zlinedavid said:

I've only been married once and I lost my reasonable mind a long time ago. 

Come to think of it......those two things happened about the same time.....

Russian proverb

“The husband is the head of the family,

but the wife is the neck.”

once married, your head and mind are gone 

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

2 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We do run off screens though. Devonte Green was being run off screens all night against UConn. We've run the flex at times as well. Yes, we also run the perimeter handoff action to ultimately get into an advantageous ball screen to create mismatches, but again 99% of the teams in the country run that. 

I think our big issue is just not have play/shot makers on the roster. Do you really see other teams running different stuff than IU?

when i say run off screens, i mean guys sprinting across the baseline getting screen from TJD or Brunk to get that corner open 3.  Or the hard running curl screen to come back the way they just came from.  We move and get moving screens all the time, but they are almost always near the perimeter.

Yes we move off screens, but we don't have guys actually running hard around screens across the court to get open.  Would like to see that sometime

[BGleas]

6 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

Guess Romeo Langford didn’t fit the mold?  Guess Trayce Jackson Davis doesn’t fit the mold?  Problem is both these guys fit the mold but chose or will chose to jump to the League before finishing what they accomplished.  Cody Zeller after a Soph yr or Noah V after a Frosh yr?? Problem is NONE of these players did anything in the NBA until a cple yrs in the developmental league and I’m still waiting for their Stardom!!!  Cody, Noah & Langford are NOnames so far and their decisions to leave early are dumbfounding!!!  TJD please see above post!

I'm really confused by your post, not sure what you really mean. No, I don't think Langford really fit that mold. TJD does to a certain extent. But, it's not as much about each individual player, it's about the mentality of the team as a whole. 

As far as the NBA stuff, I think you're way, way off base. Zeller is in 7th year and he's been a starter for the most part since his second season. Not his fault he was drafted by a joke of a franchise. He's one of the better centers in the NBA from an analytical perspective. He's making just shy of $15 million this season as a starting center. 

Yeah, Vonleh isn't a star, but he's a 6-year NBA vet. Langford was a lottery pick. The only reason he hasn't played yet is because of injuries. 

I guess these guys should have kept playing for free, turning down 10's of millions of dollars, for the glory of old IU?!?!

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

We do run off screens though. Devonte Green was being run off screens all night against UConn. We've run the flex at times as well. Yes, we also run the perimeter handoff action to ultimately get into an advantageous ball screen to create mismatches, but again 99% of the teams in the country run that. 

I think our big issue is just not have play/shot makers on the roster. Do you really see other teams running different stuff than IU?

Exactly. 

I think this criticism started with Crean who heavily ran handoff action, following NBA action, but the criticism continued even when we were a top 2-5 college offense. Then we lost playmakers like Yogi or Vic on the wing, Wat as a stretch 4, etc and couldn’t replace them. 

I think we have better shooting now than recognized. We have I think 4 guys right now shooting 35 percent or better and Green’s average is exceptional. 

But we have very little playmaking from the wing and no real stretch 4 play. Rob will help, from the point, but we need to keep developing Demez and Hunter to create more space and driving lanes 

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

when i say run off screens, i mean guys sprinting across the baseline getting screen from TJD or Brunk to get that corner open 3.  Or the hard running curl screen to come back the way they just came from.  We move and get moving screens all the time, but they are almost always near the perimeter.

Yes we move off screens, but we don't have guys actually running hard around screens across the court to get open.  Would like to see that sometime

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Green was running off those screen all night. He was setting up in the paint with TJD and Brunk on opposite blocks and running his man off those screens. Sometimes running one way off the screen and then curling back into the paint to then run his guy off the screen on the other side to pop out. 

IU does that stuff. Sure, we can question how hard they're running and how good the screens are, which goes back to my culture point, but that's not a schematic thing.

We basically ran the same stuff UConn did. At one point one of the announcers mentioned how it seemed like UConn's screen were much more effective. I can get onboard with that, it does seem like IU's screens don't create as much of an advantage, which Archie and the players need to fix. But again, schematically, we're doing a lot of things fans are saying we don't and we're basically doing what everyone else is doing, we're just not executing it as well. 

[BGleas]

9 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Exactly. 

I think this criticism started with Crean who heavily ran handoff action, following NBA action, but the criticism continued even when we were a top 2-5 college offense. Then we lost playmakers like Yogi or Vic on the wing, Wat as a stretch 4, etc and couldn’t replace them. 

I think we have better shooting now than recognized. We have I think 4 guys right now shooting 35 percent or better and Green’s average is exceptional. 

But we have very little playmaking from the wing and no real stretch 4 play. Rob will help, from the point, but we need to keep developing Demez and Hunter to create more space and driving lanes 

Agree, this is a personnel issue, not a system or schematic issue. If Joey Brunk could shoot like Max Beilfeldt, Race Thompson had the confidence to shoot open 3's like that Goins kid from MSU last year, and if Jerome Hunter had the confidence to shoot like that wing from UConn the other night, and if Phinisee can develop into a poor man's Yogi, then all of the sudden the offense looks great. 

The movement (both people and ball) is there, the actions are there, the open shots are there, we just lack the play and shot makers to really execute it at a high level. Want to blame Archie for that? Yes, he deserves some of that blame. I'd still say he's still cleaning up from Crean's poor roster management the last few years, some injuries have hurt as well, but at the same time Archie needs to do a better job recruiting guys that can shoot and make plays. 

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Archie needs to do a better job recruiting guys that can shoot and make plays. 

Archie did at least try to recruit shooters/playmakers. One left after 1 year, and one suffered a debilitating injury that basically took a year to overcome. 

Hunter is definitely the X factor. If he'd have played the minutes last year that he has so far this year, I think we'd see a much different player...one that fits your criteria. 

We've seen glimpses of what Jerome can do. I think all he needs at this point is game time to bolster his confidence on the offensive end. I was rather pleased with his improvement on the defensive end last game.

And to be honest, I truly think he's the difference between IU being a bubble team, and one that's a solid tourney entry and can go a few rounds deep.

[Zlinedavid]

8 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

Cody, Noah & Langford are NOnames so far and their decisions to leave early are dumbfounding!!!  TJD please see above post!

Because if you stay 4 years and enter the draft, you're guaranteed to become a star?

If you want to question the decision of someone like JBJ leaving early, that's more understandable.  But Cody and Noah have both been fairly solid NBA players for multiple seasons. The reality is that Cody and Noah might be exactly where they are today if they'd have both played 4 years.  Not every player is destined for superstardom.  DJ White and Eric Gordon were both 1st round picks in 2007.  DJ was a senior, EJ was a freshman.  One was an NBA journeyman who wound up playing overseas, one is still in the league.....and it isn't the guy who stayed 4 years.

Edit: And for the record, Noah played 3 days in the G league during his rookie season as a part of rehab from surgery to repair a sports hernia.  Cody has never played in the G league.  So the statement about "multiple seasons in the developmental league" is totally false.

 

[mchenry34]

33 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Archie did at least try to recruit shooters/playmakers. One left after 1 year, and one suffered a debilitating injury that basically took a year to overcome. 

Hunter is definitely the X factor. If he'd have played the minutes last year that he has so far this year, I think we'd see a much different player...one that fits your criteria. 

We've seen glimpses of what Jerome can do. I think all he needs at this point is game time to bolster his confidence on the offensive end. I was rather pleased with his improvement on the defensive end last game.

And to be honest, I truly think he's the difference between IU being a bubble team, and one that's a solid tourney entry and can go a few rounds deep.

I think that prioritizing shooters may be why he left the scholarships as first come first serve between Damezi, Hunter and Aaron Henry. I think that it is likely that the coaches scouted them and said that while Henry is slightly bigger, more athletic, with more BB IQ as a high schooler, they were evaluated as even because our need was shooting.

If our team had shooting on the roster I can see that recruitment being more drawn out as we wait and see a bit more between those three options.

[GrangerHoosier]

12-8

I went through the conference schedule and thought I was being pretty pessimistic too, but I really think this team could even go 13-7 if we stay healthy. 

No teams, not even MSU, scare me at all this year, especially when we swept them last season and they were better. 

[IU878176]

10 hours ago, BornHoosier said:

Guess Romeo Langford didn’t fit the mold?  Guess Trayce Jackson Davis doesn’t fit the mold?  Problem is both these guys fit the mold but chose or will chose to jump to the League before finishing what they accomplished.  Cody Zeller after a Soph yr or Noah V after a Frosh yr?? Problem is NONE of these players did anything in the NBA until a cple yrs in the developmental league and I’m still waiting for their Stardom!!!  Cody, Noah & Langford are NOnames so far and their decisions to leave early are dumbfounding!!!  TJD please see above post!

Staying in school 4 years would not have turned Zeller into a NBA star.

He was smart to enter a very weak draft. The odds of him being the number 4 pick, two years later, were minuscule.

He is a solid, not star, player that is in the midst of a guaranteed 4 year $56,000,000 contract. Set for life in his twenties.....not shabby.

[TN_Hoosier]

11 and 9 but willing to be surprised with a better conference record.  Also, hoping our football team can beat TN for obvious reasons.  Let's do it Hoosiers!!!

[BGleas]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Archie did at least try to recruit shooters/playmakers. One left after 1 year, and one suffered a debilitating injury that basically took a year to overcome. 

Hunter is definitely the X factor. If he'd have played the minutes last year that he has so far this year, I think we'd see a much different player...one that fits your criteria. 

We've seen glimpses of what Jerome can do. I think all he needs at this point is game time to bolster his confidence on the offensive end. I was rather pleased with his improvement on the defensive end last game.

And to be honest, I truly think he's the difference between IU being a bubble team, and one that's a solid tourney entry and can go a few rounds deep.

Completely agree. Jerome Hunter's injury probably set the program back a year. I know this debate is going on in another thread, so I hesitate to bring it here too, but with a healthy Hunter and Langford, both last season and this season (Hunter having a year of experience under his belt) look a lot different, as well as the perception of the program and Archie. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

I'm glad our end of season games come at the end, when the team hopefully is fully gelled, and not at the beginning, but that's a tough back stretch:

At MU

PSU

At PU

At Illinois

Minn

Wisc

I have us at 11-9. How we handle that back stretch, imo, is going to be the difference between a plus or sub .500 season. We're going to need to hold home court, for starters.  

Oh, and a beat down of Wisconsin to close the season -- not just hoping for it, it's going to happen.

[IowaHoosierFan]

5 hours ago, BGleas said:

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Green was running off those screen all night. He was setting up in the paint with TJD and Brunk on opposite blocks and running his man off those screens. Sometimes running one way off the screen and then curling back into the paint to then run his guy off the screen on the other side to pop out. 

IU does that stuff. Sure, we can question how hard they're running and how good the screens are, which goes back to my culture point, but that's not a schematic thing.

We basically ran the same stuff UConn did. At one point one of the announcers mentioned how it seemed like UConn's screen were much more effective. I can get onboard with that, it does seem like IU's screens don't create as much of an advantage, which Archie and the players need to fix. But again, schematically, we're doing a lot of things fans are saying we don't and we're basically doing what everyone else is doing, we're just not executing it as well. 

Maybe i am just not seeing what i am trying to explain.  Maybe i just don't like this team and don't see the good in them.  Not sure but i just don't think they run a very good offense.  

[Bowhunter]

Unfortunately 9-11 

😢

However we go on a run in the big ten tournament and limp in losing in the semi final.