2023 NFL Discussion

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

It drives me nuts when announcers keep saying he's the best ever at throwing a hail mary. As if QB skill comes into play on that, outside of being able to throw it high and far. Lots of guys make those exact hail mary throws, he just got lucky as hell a couple times.

Sweet jesus he throws an out route well though. AZs defensively strategy on the outside confused the heck out of me. Their corners, I think, are very good... I didn't understand giving up 6 yards on 1st and 10 or 2nd and 10 by a simple out or hitch route. 

[Leathernecks]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

My thing with Rodgers, and I've felt this way even before what went down this offseason, is that I get the sense from his body language at times, etc., that it's all about him and that if the Packers lose there is a sense of everyone (coaches, players, front office, etc.) let Rodgers down and it's their fault. 

It just feels like he's above reproach and if they win it's all him and if they lose it was somehow the rest of the organization doing a disservice to Rodgers. 

Take Brady for example, while he'll certainly lay into teammates and coaches, I've always viewed him a "one of the guys" and a player that just vies himself as a part of the team that needs to go out there and do his job like everyone else. But with Rodgers, it feels like everyone else at the Packers "owes" him. 

I've said for years that I think guys don't want to go play for Rodgers. Like you said, it's always somebody else's fault. There was one last night where either announcers said he just glared at somebody as they came back to the huddle. I'm all for telling a guy when they messed up and what to do to be better, but he just is a douche about it. Constantly shows up teammates. 

I think Rodgers is one of the most talented QBs ever. The throws he makes are sometimes unbelievable. I also think he's done a lot to hold the Packers back during his tenure by making it all about himself. Could you imagine Rodgers taking pay cuts like Brady to help get better players around him? Yeah right. I think his true colors came out this offseason when there was talk about him trying to take all the money he could get from the Packers.

[BGleas]

Just now, 5fouls said:

There is a lot of truth in that statement.  It does not, however, diminish what he has done as a quarterback.  The other factor we have to give him some credit for is that he did this in Green Bay.  He put up the numbers he did in likely the worst weather venue in the NFL.  He wasn't doing what he did in sunny Southern California like Phillip Rivers, or in a dome like Drew Brees.  He was playing games in Lambeau in December & January,  Even on the road, he was guaranteed to have to play in Chicago at least once a season as well.  

Yeah, I'm not saying he isn't a great QB, I just think he comes off as if he's somehow been mistreated by the Packers or that they've somehow let him down over the years and none of the failing to get to the Super Bowl or win another championship has anything to do with him. 

He's definitely great, though IMO he's below the Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway, etc. crowd. You can't be in the GOAT conversation and only get to 1 Super Bowl your entire career. 

[btownqb]

Just now, Leathernecks said:

I've said for years that I think guys don't want to go play for Rodgers. Like you said, it's always somebody else's fault. There was one last night where either announcers said he just glared at somebody as they came back to the huddle. I'm all for telling a guy when they messed up and what to do to be better, but he just is a douche about it. Constantly shows up teammates. 

I think Rodgers is one of the most talented QBs ever. The throws he makes are sometimes unbelievable. I also think he's done a lot to hold the Packers back during his tenure by making it all about himself. Could you imagine Rodgers taking pay cuts like Brady to help get better players around him? Yeah right. I think his true colors came out this offseason when there was talk about him trying to take all the money he could get from the Packers.

What was the point in glaring at backups last night? obviously those dudes weren't TRYING to mess up. Idk. I tell our dudes when we are in that position w/back ups in... "what if when player A messes up, we pick him up, instead of tear him down? What if we are the best teammates possible tonight?" 

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

I've said for years that I think guys don't want to go play for Rodgers. Like you said, it's always somebody else's fault. There was one last night where either announcers said he just glared at somebody as they came back to the huddle. I'm all for telling a guy when they messed up and what to do to be better, but he just is a douche about it. Constantly shows up teammates. 

I think Rodgers is one of the most talented QBs ever. The throws he makes are sometimes unbelievable. I also think he's done a lot to hold the Packers back during his tenure by making it all about himself. Could you imagine Rodgers taking pay cuts like Brady to help get better players around him? Yeah right. I think his true colors came out this offseason when there was talk about him trying to take all the money he could get from the Packers.

Agree. I also looked at what happened in the NFC Title Game last season. Remember when they kicked the field goal late in the game instead of going for it on 4th down inside the 5? 

I'm making some assumptions here, but I feel like guys like Brady, Manning, etc. would call TO and go talk to their head coach and OC about going for it, and most likely convince them they needed to. I've seen Brady do that. Again, I'm making an assumption, but I felt like on that moment Rodgers attitude was "ok, well it's your (the coach) funeral, this isn't on me" and just went along and didn't say anything. 

[Leathernecks]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I'm not saying he isn't a great QB, I just think he comes off as if he's somehow been mistreated by the Packers or that they've somehow let him down over the years and none of the failing to get to the Super Bowl or win another championship has anything to do with him. 

He's definitely great, though IMO he's below the Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway, etc. crowd. You can't be in the GOAT conversation and only get to 1 Super Bowl your entire career. 

He's had some great OLs to throw behind too. How many times over the years has Rodgers had all day to sit in the pocket. 

[5fouls]

3 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, I'm not saying he isn't a great QB, I just think he comes off as if he's somehow been mistreated by the Packers or that they've somehow let him down over the years and none of the failing to get to the Super Bowl or win another championship has anything to do with him. 

He's definitely great, though IMO he's below the Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway, etc. crowd. You can't be in the GOAT conversation and only get to 1 Super Bowl your entire career. 

I don't think anyone is putting him on the list with those 4 guys, nor even up with Favre, who preceded him at Green Bay.  But, if you carry your 'All Time' QB list out 15 places, he has to be in consideration.   

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

What was the point in glaring at backups last night? obviously those dudes weren't TRYING to mess up. Idk. I tell our dudes when we are in that position w/back ups in... "what if when player A messes up, we pick him up, instead of tear him down? What if we are the best teammates possible tonight?" 

I don't mean to keep pointing to Brady, but that's another area where I think Brady is head and shoulders beyond Rodgers. He's worked with so many different receivers and had to work in backups over the years, etc. and he seems to thrive on that. 

Heck, he won a SB with a rookie Malcolm Mitchell as his best receiver and Mitchell was out of the league a year later.

[Billingsley99]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

What was the point in glaring at backups last night? obviously those dudes weren't TRYING to mess up. Idk. I tell our dudes when we are in that position w/back ups in... "what if when player A messes up, we pick him up, instead of tear him down? What if we are the best teammates possible tonight?" 

There is a huge difference between a high school starter and backup and the same in the NFL. Peyton Manning never let up on any of the backups. So many of those guys were Made by Manning and went elsewhere got big money and sucked. He held them to the same standard as the stars and I am sure they are thankful he did.

[Leathernecks]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

What was the point in glaring at backups last night? obviously those dudes weren't TRYING to mess up. Idk. I tell our dudes when we are in that position w/back ups in... "what if when player A messes up, we pick him up, instead of tear him down? What if we are the best teammates possible tonight?" 

Right. I'm all for constructive feedback. He likes making a spectacle and embarrassing guys.

[BGleas]

Just now, 5fouls said:

I don't think anyone is putting him on the list with those 4 guys, nor even up with Favre, who preceded him at Green Bay.  But, if you carry your 'All Time' QB list out 15 places, he has to be in consideration.   

I don't know. There are a lot of commentators that say, "Brady is the GOAT, but Rodgers is the most talented ever". 

[Leathernecks]

1 minute ago, Billingsley99 said:

There is a huge difference between a high school starter and backup and the same in the NFL. Peyton Manning never let up on any of the backups. So many of those guys were Made by Manning and went elsewhere got big money and sucked. He held them to the same standard as the stars and I am sure they are thankful he did.

Hold to a high standard and teach them to make them better. Not stare them down and shake your head at them when they make a mistake. 

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

There is a huge difference between a high school starter and backup and the same in the NFL. Peyton Manning never let up on any of the backups. So many of those guys were Made by Manning and went elsewhere got big money and sucked. He held them to the same standard as the stars and I am sure they are thankful he did.

Ok but in THAT game last night.. on a short week.... be a leader, not a tool. 

[Billingsley99]

Just now, btownqb said:

Ok but in THAT game last night.. on a short week.... be a leader, not a tool. 

I did not get to watch enough to know what happened. Good point. I was just speaking in general terms. 

[btownqb]

Just now, Billingsley99 said:

I did not get to watch enough to know what happened. Good point. I was just speaking in general terms. 

And I get that. It just seemed counter productive, in that particular situation last night. 

[Billingsley99]

2 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

Hold to a high standard and teach them to make them better. Not stare them down and shake your head at them when they make a mistake. 

Go back and watch some Manning material and talk to some of the guys that played with him. Stare down would be the least. Peyton is my all time favorite athlete and like he has said every player is earning a paycheck and need to be held accountable. 

[5fouls]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Agree. I also looked at what happened in the NFC Title Game last season. Remember when they kicked the field goal late in the game instead of going for it on 4th down inside the 5? 

 

[Leathernecks]

 

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Go back and watch some Manning material and talk to some of the guys that played with him. Stare down would be the least. Peyton is my all time favorite athlete and like he has said every player is earning a paycheck and need to be held accountable. 

Yes, held accountable. Not embarrassed on national tv. Big difference between Manning doing it as he would also routinely teach guys while out there. Rodgers never does that. He just belittles guys when they mess up. I think he wants to show everybody that it was the other person's fault and not his own. 

[Hoosier51]

15 minutes ago, BGleas said:

He's definitely great, though IMO he's below the Brady, Manning, Montana, Elway, etc. crowd. You can't be in the GOAT conversation and only get to 1 Super Bowl your entire career. 

This is what pisses me off, he always gets a pass from the press and talking heads for only making one SB, you never hear them say anything about it. It is always the team or his teammates fault. While i think he is a top twenty QB of all time i don't think he is anywhere close to top ten.

[Billingsley99]

9 minutes ago, Leathernecks said:

 

Yes, held accountable. Not embarrassed on national tv. Big difference between Manning doing it as he would also routinely teach guys while out there. Rodgers never does that. He just belittles guys when they mess up. I think he wants to show everybody that it was the other person's fault and not his own. 

Like I said I am the biggest Manning fan there  is and I think he did his fair share of embarrassing players. I am not the best at lip reading but there have been many occasions of him yelling at some non experienced guys saying something very close to Catch the trucking fall or something like that. 

I did not see Rodgers but these guys are pros making a hefty salary to well catch the ball. We can agree to disagree on this one. I do get your point with Rodgers just putting blame on someone else been that way his whole career

[BGleas]

11 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

This is what pisses me off, he always gets a pass from the press and talking heads for only making one SB, you never hear them say anything about it. It is always the team or his teammates fault. While i think he is a top twenty QB of all time i don't think he is anywhere close to top ten.

He totally gets a pass on the Super Bowl thing from the media, where guys like Manning, Elway, etc. got crushed for that stuff until breaking through. 

[Billingsley99]

14 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

This is what pisses me off, he always gets a pass from the press and talking heads for only making one SB, you never hear them say anything about it. It is always the team or his teammates fault. While i think he is a top twenty QB of all time i don't think he is anywhere close to top ten.

Before I post this I am not a Rodgers fan just the opposite. My brother in law is a big Packer fan so I hate everything about them. Here is the list of the top QB's in my opinion not in any specific order but for me the top 4 are in order from that its the guys I could think of when I think great. In HSN opinion where on this list would you put Rodgers based on performance not dislike. Personally I would not have him at the bottom of it for sure

 

Brady

Manning

Montana

Unitas

Marino

Brees

Otto Graham

Staubach

Elway

Young

Sammy Baugh

Favre

Young 

Starr

[Hoosier51]

2 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Before I post this I am not a Rodgers fan just the opposite. My brother in law is a big Packer fan so I hate everything about them. Here is the list of the top QB's in my opinion not in any specific order but for me the top 4 are in order from that its the guys I could think of when I think great. In HSN opinion where on this list would you put Rodgers based on performance not dislike. Personally I would not have him at the bottom of it for sure

 

Brady

Manning

Montana

Unitas

Marino

Brees

Otto Graham

Staubach

Elway

Young

Sammy Baugh

Favre

Young 

Starr

That is a pretty good list, i would have him close to it.

[Leathernecks]

15 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

Like I said I am the biggest Manning fan there  is and I think he did his fair share of embarrassing players. I am not the best at lip reading but there have been many occasions of him yelling at some non experienced guys saying something very close to Catch the trucking fall or something like that. 

I did not see Rodgers but these guys are pros making a hefty salary to well catch the ball. We can agree to disagree on this one. I do get your point with Rodgers just putting blame on someone else been that way his whole career

I'm not saying it doesn't happen with other guys. That's all Rodgers ever does, while other guys do it here and there while also working with guys to make them better.

[Billingsley99]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

That is a pretty good list, i would have him close to it.

Thats 12 and I think is better than at least 2 on that list.