Illinois Postgame Thread

[NCHoosier32]

12 hours ago, dgambill said:

Might be time for Khristian to start and Rob to reign things in if he gets too out of control.

i agree, but the fact that Arch only plays him a few minutes seems to show that he doesn't think he's very close.  really thought he'd at least give him more minutes yesterday.  i definitely think KL is the future, but surely CAM has to know more than we do as to what he is seeing in practice and what he sees in the few game minutes he plays?  i don't know.  seems crazy to not play a recruit that highly touted at least a little more.  

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i agree, but the fact that Arch only plays him a few minutes seems to show that he doesn't think he's very close.  really thought he'd at least give him more minutes yesterday.  i definitely think KL is the future, but surely CAM has to know more than we do as to what he is seeing in practice and what he sees in the few game minutes he plays?  i don't know.  seems crazy to not play a recruit that highly touted at least a little more.  

Archie trusts Al and Rob more. Kind of the devil you know situation if you feel me. He will roll with their limitations over the uncertainty that Khristian brings because Lander is certainly more undisciplined..despite the much higher upside for the kid offensively on the floor.

[BGleas]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Archie trusts Al and Rob more. Kind of the devil you know situation if you feel me. He will roll with their limitations over the uncertainty that Khristian brings because Lander is certainly more undisciplined..despite the much higher upside for the kid offensively on the floor.

I just hope Archie and Lander are on the same page. I don't typically put transfers on the coach, they're just a fact of life in today's college sports, and while I agree with Archie that Lander isn't ready yet, there's a way to do this without just giving him 2-3 minutes. 

It better workout long term with Lander. 

[dgambill]

Just now, BGleas said:

I just hope Archie and Lander are on the same page. I don't typically put transfers on the coach, they're just a fact of life in today's college sports, and while I agree with Archie that Lander isn't ready yet, there's a way to do this without just giving him 2-3 minutes. 

It better workout long term with Lander. 

Yep...communication would be key! 

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I just hope Archie and Lander are on the same page. I don't typically put transfers on the coach, they're just a fact of life in today's college sports, and while I agree with Archie that Lander isn't ready yet, there's a way to do this without just giving him 2-3 minutes. 

It better workout long term with Lander. 

And I think this is a key piece when we start talking about building a roster in today's atmosphere...

Archie and the building of his program are often compared to Mike Krzyzewski, Jay Wright, and Tony Bennett with year 4 being the "key" year...

But none of those 3 had to deal with the ultra turbulent world of transfers, and, for the most part, the OAD or the early out kids. Very difficult to build a roster like Archie wants in today's game...kids want playing time...

[BruceDouglas]

12 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Surpass so easily? Ayo and Kofi were both gone at the end of last year. I know our little Quincy friend will come along and try to debate....but you do realize that if Covid didn't hit and there were actually camps this past summer Illinois had 45 and 17 removed from their lineup today?

Surpass so easily. Some of you guys.....I understand frustration but you also have to isolate and recognize and have the ability to realize phrases like "surpass us so easily" are just nonsense. 

Not going to debate with you, but your hypotheticals are quite entertaining! Good luck, will check back in Feb for the return game.

[NCHoosier32]

39 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I just hope Archie and Lander are on the same page. I don't typically put transfers on the coach, they're just a fact of life in today's college sports, and while I agree with Archie that Lander isn't ready yet, there's a way to do this without just giving him 2-3 minutes. 

It better workout long term with Lander. 

i definitely agree, but don't you think it's likely they had the conversation when he re-classed that this was more like a redshirt year with nothing to lose since the plan will still be to have a degree in 3 years and be in the NBA then?  still easier to say than to live it i guess.  all kids think they'll show the coach they're ready now.

[IUFLA]

11 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

Ah.  I was thinking you were justifying Armaan should have played him better.  Which he did for a large part of the game.  Which reminds me.  Didn't most people pregame talk about Rob guarding Ayo?  Armaan was working and breathing so hard.  That is a guy that is going to take a leap every year.  

More showing that the physical difference wasn't all that much...I thought that Armaan was trending toward being a lockdown defender, but he had a difficult time with Ayo. 

While I was a bit disappointed with that, I do realize that Ayo is one of the top players in the B1G, and any defender is going to have their hands full with him...

[rico]

We miss Brunk.

[Fiveoutofsix]

40 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

And I think this is a key piece when we start talking about building a roster in today's atmosphere...

Archie and the building of his program are often compared to Mike Krzyzewski, Jay Wright, and Tony Bennett with year 4 being the "key" year...

But none of those 3 had to deal with the ultra turbulent world of transfers, and, for the most part, the OAD or the early out kids. Very difficult to build a roster like Archie wants in today's game...kids want playing time...

True, but you don't need a roster of oad.  If you have solid role players who can play the game, defend, rebound and shoot, the OAD or two and out will take your game to the next level.  Using IU past experiences, Jefferies was a great example of it.  

[dbmhoosier]

I can definitely see Lander bolting.  There are probably a lot of good programs he could start for next season.  Archie will likely continue to roll with Rob and Armaan.

[BGleas]

31 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i definitely agree, but don't you think it's likely they had the conversation when he re-classed that this was more like a redshirt year with nothing to lose since the plan will still be to have a degree in 3 years and be in the NBA then?  still easier to say than to live it i guess.  all kids think they'll show the coach they're ready now.

I'm sure they did, but if Lander really has legit NBA potential, then I doubt he thought he'd come in and be getting just 2-3 minutes per game. 

 

[DWB]

21 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

While I was a bit disappointed with that, I do realize that Ayo is one of the top players in the B1G, and any defender is going to have their hands full with him...

And yet, CAM says in the presser the same thing, only added "he's been one of the best for 2½ years". So where is a "creative" defensive scheme to deal with a known all-star player? Armaan is great, but he's just one guy. You don't control a super-star with one guy on him...at least not in college. This failure to contain Ayo is on Archie.

[NCHoosier32]

5 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm sure they did, but if Lander really has legit NBA potential, then I doubt he thought he'd come in and be getting just 2-3 minutes per game. 

 

yeah.  considering we aren't exactly tearing it up and the guys ahead of him aren't exactly all americans, it's hard to see why he wouldn't want to sneak at least 5 minutes a half in isn't it?  i tell ya what, if it's a clash of personalities or attitude problem, we're in even more trouble than i thought.  i am at least counting on KL big time next year.

[IUFLA]

41 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

True, but you don't need a roster of oad.  If you have solid role players who can play the game, defend, rebound and shoot, the OAD or two and out will take your game to the next level.  Using IU past experiences, Jefferies was a great example of it.  

That's not what I said...look at his first recruiting class...

Romeo-OAD 

Jerome-career threatening injury, hasn't lived up to potential, possibly because of the injury 

Jake Forrester-transferred for PT 

Damezi Anderson-transferred for PT 

Rob Phinisee- has been inconsistent and hasn't lived up to potential

This class would be the base of your upperclassmen right now, those "role players" you talk about, but due to the circumstances I stated, only 2 remain, and through injuries and inconsistency have not been what Archie thought when they were recruited 

2nd recruiting class 

TJD-Everything we expected 

Armaan-everything we expected and more 

3rd Recruiting class 

Lander 

Leal 

Galloway 

Geronimo 

Pretty good haul, and some more if those "role players" with star potential certainly for one and possibly two...

But we have to keep them...and in today's world it isn't a stretch to look at Lander and think he won't be there beyond next year, and one of the others might look for more playing time...

The overall point is, it's very difficult to assemble the roster Archie wants in today's game with all of the options available to kids...

[HoosierJax]

31 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said:

I can definitely see Lander bolting.  There are probably a lot of good programs he could start for next season.  Archie will likely continue to roll with Rob and Armaan.

Could be wrong but i doubt Lander reclassifys to sit on the bench or play spot minutes...something is a miss in my opinion 

[NCHoosier32]

5 minutes ago, HoosierJax said:

Could be wrong but i doubt Lander reclassifys to sit on the bench or play spot minutes...something is a miss in my opinion 

i have to 100% assume he'll start next year for IU.  i would think he had to know when he reclassed that he would likely see limited minutes, but if not, he will probably bolt!

[dbmhoosier]

3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i have to 100% assume he'll start next year for IU.  i would think he had to know when he reclassed that he would likely see limited minutes, but if not, he will probably bolt!

So Archie is going to bring a senior, who has pretty much started his whole career, off the bench?  And Armaan could very well be our best player if TJD leaves. 

[madmax]

I keep thinking about one specific play with Rob from yesterday. Don’t remember the score but I think it was near the beginning of their final run to take the lead/build it. Rob was playing great defense on Ayo, created a loose ball, dove for it underneath Ayo’s legs with 2 seconds on shot clock, Ayo picks it up and nails the shot. Such a frustrating play, because it’s ostensibly not bad defense or a decision by Rob to dive for the ball, but it creates an open 3 for a good shooter. Felt like there were probably 5-7 plays like that that all went against us. Flip even some of those around and we win.

[go_iu_bb]

27 minutes ago, madmax said:

I keep thinking about one specific play with Rob from yesterday. Don’t remember the score but I think it was near the beginning of their final run to take the lead/build it. Rob was playing great defense on Ayo, created a loose ball, dove for it underneath Ayo’s legs with 2 seconds on shot clock, Ayo picks it up and nails the shot. Such a frustrating play, because it’s ostensibly not bad defense or a decision by Rob to dive for the ball, but it creates an open 3 for a good shooter. Felt like there were probably 5-7 plays like that that all went against us. Flip even some of those around and we win.

That play drove me crazy because it shows lack of situational awareness which has been displayed by Phinisee and others. While I would normally applaud a player diving for a loose ball, with so little time on the shot clock there was no reason to do that. If he had instead stayed on his feet he either causes a shot clock violation or a much more difficult shot. But he either had no idea of the shot clock or he still thought diving was the best play.

[KoB2011]

19 minutes ago, madmax said:

I keep thinking about one specific play with Rob from yesterday. Don’t remember the score but I think it was near the beginning of their final run to take the lead/build it. Rob was playing great defense on Ayo, created a loose ball, dove for it underneath Ayo’s legs with 2 seconds on shot clock, Ayo picks it up and nails the shot. Such a frustrating play, because it’s ostensibly not bad defense or a decision by Rob to dive for the ball, but it creates an open 3 for a good shooter. Felt like there were probably 5-7 plays like that that all went against us. Flip even some of those around and we win.

That play was definitely a key play. I agree it wasn't a "bad play" to dive for the loose ball and I realize hindsight is 20/20, but the odds of getting that ball based on where it was and where the players were positioned was really low. Late in the clock like that I'd have preferred he not dive and just force a terrible shot or shot clock violation. 

[Fiveoutofsix]

1 hour ago, HoosierJax said:

Could be wrong but i doubt Lander reclassifys to sit on the bench or play spot minutes...something is a miss in my opinion 

We don't see practice, and we know Archie values defense first.  Ball has to go through hoop though.

TG is getting plenty of playing time and a well deserved start yesterday.

Wish media would ask him the question specifically.

[BobSaccamanno]

2 hours ago, BruceDouglas said:

Not going to debate with you, but your hypotheticals are quite entertaining! Good luck, will check back in Feb for the return game.

Best of luck to the Illini until you see us again.  I’m in Chicago and of course I have lots of Illini friends.  

I’ve never had a major problem with Illinois except when Bruce Weber was boorish.  

Your 89 team was one of the most fun teams in B1G history as far as I’m concerned. I also liked some early 80s teams. The exact years have faded for me, but the group with Altenberger, Winters and of course your namesake.  

[NCHoosier32]

1 hour ago, dbmhoosier said:

So Archie is going to bring a senior, who has pretty much started his whole career, off the bench?  And Armaan could very well be our best player if TJD leaves. 

my guess would be Franklin, Lander, Galloway, Hunter, Thompson.  then pray for a transfer to help for size, hope Brunk plays, or Duncomb?  yes, at that point, RP off the bench.  if Lander isn't starting next year, i would fully expect him to transfer.  

[HoosierJax]

41 minutes ago, Fiveoutofsix said:

We don't see practice, and we know Archie values defense first.  Ball has to go through hoop though.

TG is getting plenty of playing time and a well deserved start yesterday.

Wish media would ask him the question specifically.

TG was the only Freshman that got praise from CAM in preseason...but kids nowadays dont want to wait to be seasoned...most get disgruntled if no PT regardless of what the situation is