JugRox Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bustout said: If Dolson is telling Archie that he’s putting feelers out there, I don’t think they are on the same page. Archie likes this job. Wants to succeed here. He doesn’t want to quit. Miller isn't stupid. Weather Dolson told him he is putting feelers out or not, Miller has to expect that something along those lines is happening. He knows he hasn't met expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 hours ago, IUJoe said: With the we're "on the same page" comment, plus hearing we are interested in the transfer from Indiana State, I wonder how likely this scenario is: Dolson has told Archie his results are unacceptable, and Archie agrees. They have agreed to let Archie aggressively work the transfer market for a few months to see if he can significantly upgrade the roster for next season. If he can't, he could be let go mid-summer, much like Ohio State did with Thad Matta, which would then open the door for NBA candidates since their season would be over. You can't wait that late because it would be harder to get the best candidates because they already gotten a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, JugRox said: Miller isn't stupid. Weather Dolson told him he is putting feelers out or not, Miller has to expect that something along those lines is happening. He knows he hasn't met expectations. He’s also not going to quit. IMO. He knows he has one of the best jobs in hoops. He loves the fans. He knows he’s sucked, but he wants to fix that - and I’m sure he’ll make corrective actions this off-season. He already brought a guy in to help with recruiting. And that person has netted an SG. Archie knows the heat is on, but he doesn’t want to walk away from this job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, NotIThatLives said: No it's probably not happening. Especially not Stevens or even Donovan. The nba will fire 8 guys this summer. 2 guys already fired. Still, no one would transfer out if Jason Kidd or Pop or about 20 other nba coaches became the coach of IU this July. That's what I'm saying If our players are going to transfer it will be at the end of the semester like in April or May. I also feel that there will be more transfers out if Archie stays than if he is fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, madmax said: Because they came to play for Archie. Becauze they don’t fit the new coaches system. Because the new coach told them they won’t start. Because their mom doesn’t like the way the new coach smells. It’s silly to think that a new coach comes in here and everything is roses and butterflies immediately, regardless of if they come from the NBA or not. The players don't look like they fit Archie's system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, IU Scott said: The players don't look like they fit Archie's system And your point is? I was responding to why players might leave even if a top 10 NBA coach we’re to come, not commenting on the fit of our current roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bustout said: If Dolson is telling Archie that he’s putting feelers out there, I don’t think they are on the same page. Archie likes this job. Wants to succeed here. He doesn’t want to quit. On the same page as......"Archie, you and I both agree that this is NOT where this program should be right now. I have standards and expectations just as you do for this team,.....agreed? We both agree that dramatic changes need to be made. We both understand that this is a business. " If Dolson has given Archie "the talk" and a possible "put up or shut up" scenario, that's all that needs to be said. 100% on the same page here means, "Yes sir, I understand what is required of me and I understand what the possible outcome may be if I do not fulfill it." What else is there to say? Archie may not agree with things between he and Dolson, but with all things laid out good or bad...the can definitely be on the same page because Archie knows what is expected of him from Dolson. Dolson's the boss and Archie is the employee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, IU Scott said: If our players are going to transfer it will be at the end of the semester like in April or May. I also feel that there will be more transfers out if Archie stays than if he is fired When would they put their name in the transfer portal though? Before that I'd guess if there wasn't a change made... And I'm not sure what you're basing the second sentence on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, JugRox said: IMO, this is spot on or really close. Bottom line, there isn't going to be a change unless its a home run hire to justify the buyout. Thank you JugRox.....We may have to look at the reality that Archie may return next year. I don't like having Archie as a (Lame Duck or Dead Man Walking), but that very well could be the situation. If this becomes the case, he will be on a very, very short leash. Not to mention, current players, and recruiting possibly take another step back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, dbmhoosier said: 1 hour ago, madmax said: Yeah, Ostrom must be so bad that even that idiot had him on staff as an assistant coach... what was the dummies name again? Oh yeah, Billy Donovan. I think I’ll take Billy D. and Archies opinion over Dan Dakich any day of the week, but that’s just me. At least Ostrum. Dakich has said many times that he adds nothing. He supposed to be our main recruiter. Have you seen our recruits lately? We have arguably the worst class in the B1G coming in. I agree with Ostrom since he's been here the longest but I don't think that will happen. As for the Dakich hate he tends to be right about a lot of the things that have gone wrong with IU. He called Archie not working out. People get mad when he's right but he knows what IU being good looks like better than just about anyone. Can he rub people the wrong way? Sure he can but that doesn't change the fact that he tends to be right. I'm not saying this as a fan of his either. I wasn't born yet when he played and don't remember him when he coached and he's also one of the only basketball analysts that actually knows whats going on in games but people usually take that as him hating their teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 1 hour ago, madmax said: I’m not arguing that change isn’t necessary. I guess I’m just trying to point out that Ostrom must obviously have some value here otherwise he wouldn’t be an assistant coach. Archie doesn’t seem the type just to hire someone because they’re a friend. And I think my point is strengthened by the fact that a coach who we all unanimously revere here also had him on as an assistant. Maybe he does need to go? I don’t know. I’m just not taking it as gospel truth because Dan Dakich and his 159-144 overall record as a HC says so. The head coaching record isn't what it's made out to be. When he was at Bowling Green he lost his best player like 5 of the years he was the coach too. At IU or another power 5 school you should be able to overcome that to an extent. At a MAC level school that is much harder to do. You have to look at the X's and O's and things like that to better evaluate but I have a gut feeling you don't know much about what he did in that department so you shouldn't be hating based on an overall record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, Artesian_86 said: On the same page as......"Archie, you and I both agree that this is NOT where this program should be right now. I have standards and expectations just as you do for this team,.....agreed? We both agree that dramatic changes need to be made. We both understand that this is a business. " If Dolson has given Archie "the talk" and a possible "put up or shut up" scenario, that's all that needs to be said. 100% on the same page here means, "Yes sir, I understand what is required of me and I understand what the possible outcome may be if I do not fulfill it." What else is there to say? Archie may not agree with things between he and Dolson, but with all things laid out good or bad...the can definitely be on the same page because Archie knows what is expected of him from Dolson. Dolson's the boss and Archie is the employee. I get that. But in the same breath, he wouldn’t say “by the way, I’m putting out feelers”. That’s like 50% on the same page then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, DC2345 said: The head coaching record isn't what it's made out to be. When he was at Bowling Green he lost his best player like 5 of the years he was the coach too. At IU or another power 5 school you should be able to overcome that to an extent. At a MAC level school that is much harder to do. You have to look at the X's and O's and things like that to better evaluate but I have a gut feeling you don't know much about what he did in that department so you shouldn't be hating based on an overall record. Wait, so we use injuries to excuse Dan’s poor record, but not Archie? Seems like a stretch. Listen the jab at Dakich was exactly that, a jab, just having a little fun. But my point stands, Dan saying that Ostrom is worthless or whatever should hold exactly zero weight. I mean Billy Donovan kept him with Florida for 7 years, but DD tells you he sucks so that must be right? I don’t buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Bustout said: I get that. But in the same breath, he wouldn’t say “by the way, I’m putting out feelers”. That’s like 50% on the same page then. I will have respectfully agree to disagree.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, Artesian_86 said: I will have respectfully agree to disagree.... Fair enough. No matter what - if he’s kept, next year is Judgment Day with reasonable expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, madmax said: Wait, so we use injuries to excuse Dan’s poor record, but not Archie? Seems like a stretch. Listen the jab at Dakich was exactly that, a jab, just having a little fun. But my point stands, Dan saying that Ostrom is worthless or whatever should hold exactly zero weight. I mean Billy Donovan kept him with Florida for 7 years, but DD tells you he sucks so that must be right? I don’t buy it. The talent level in terms of depth on teams at low and mid majors is just different. That's the difference between IU and Bowling Green and it's much harder to overcome an injury to your best player. Guys that coach or have an understanding of talent and x's and o's above that of just a fan understand that. As for the Billy Donovan thing that could change. Guys can get comfortable and not do as much just because he was good for Donovan doesn't mean he's doing the same things for Archie. Dan said that he doesn't coach the players in terms of basketball shooting, footwork, and things like that. Other people with inside info have said the same. To me I see him as a guy Archie trusts and is his top "recruiter". Maybe he does scouting a game planning too which all of those have been issues the last 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artesian_86 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Just now, Bustout said: Fair enough. No matter what - if he’s kept, next year is Judgment Day with reasonable expectations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUALUM03 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bustout said: Fair enough. No matter what - if he’s kept, next year is Judgment Day with reasonable expectations My concern is next year we net a good record, but are screwed thereafter from a recruiting perspective, because he is year to year at this point until he strings together a couple of tourney selections to get the program off the ground. This will cost us players and only make turning things around more difficult. So I feel we have a solid record next year barring any surprises, then fall flat on our faces again. Then again, maybe we get some strong blue collar, fundamentally sound players instead with this hanging over the program (in Archie's image) we can really rebuild the foundation of the program on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJack Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 26 minutes ago, DC2345 said: I agree with Ostrom since he's been here the longest but I don't think that will happen. As for the Dakich hate he tends to be right about a lot of the things that have gone wrong with IU. He called Archie not working out. People get mad when he's right but he knows what IU being good looks like better than just about anyone. Can he rub people the wrong way? Sure he can but that doesn't change the fact that he tends to be right. I'm not saying this as a fan of his either. I wasn't born yet when he played and don't remember him when he coached and he's also one of the only basketball analysts that actually knows whats going on in games but people usually take that as him hating their teams. You can say he's right about a lot of things. I could also say he's wrong about a lot of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, JJack said: You can say he's right about a lot of things. I could also say he's wrong about a lot of things. He is but most tv and radio guys are. Here is the reality that I know is that a lot of fans and media don't like him but most coaches do and everyone seems to listen to his show. It doesn't really matter because at the end of the day everyone has a different opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, IUALUM03 said: My concern is next year we net a good record, but are screwed thereafter from a recruiting perspective, because he is year to year at this point until he strings together a couple of tourney selections to get the program off the ground. This will cost us players and only make turning things around more difficult. So I feel we have a solid record next year barring any surprises, then fall flat on our faces again. Then again, maybe we get some strong blue collar, fundamentally sound players instead with this hanging over the program (in Archie's image) we can really rebuild the foundation of the program on. I think Dolson will look at the record, obviously, but also progress. Does he feel the program is moving in the right direction. For instance, if they are 5th in B1G next year and S16 ... that may be good enough in a vacuum, but that is year 5. You can’t forget the first 4 years. Plus, Archie will need probably an extension/restructure after next anyway - so Dolson will need to evaluate everything and where the ship is headed. Let’s say Archie brings in 3 new coaches, new offense next year, 4 new kids, 2022 and 2023 recruiting starts hitting ... that could change things. If there are minimal changes and the offense is garbage again, he’s probably gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 19 minutes ago, DC2345 said: He is but most tv and radio guys are. Here is the reality that I know is that a lot of fans and media don't like him but most coaches do and everyone seems to listen to his show. It doesn't really matter because at the end of the day everyone has a different opinion. I would say that the media tends to trend more towards a similar feeling as the coaches have towards Dan. The reason he is so disliked by fans is because of the arrogance and disdain he often shows them. Maybe he is right more often than not. Maybe he is smart about basketball. Towards fans, callers to his show for example, he wants to make sure he has the upper hand at all times, and tries to prove he's the smartest guy in the room at all times. When he is a guest on national shows, he is much more toned down and likes to play the role of the ex-player who had little talent and lots of moxie. He also likes to be the clown. National media love him because he can tell stories, make fun of himself, be a chucklehead, and he knows a thing or two about hoops. I have never once heard him come across on those shows like he does to fans and callers to his local radio show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 The IU basketball program in one picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 37 minutes ago, DC2345 said: He is but most tv and radio guys are. Here is the reality that I know is that a lot of fans and media don't like him but most coaches do and everyone seems to listen to his show. It doesn't really matter because at the end of the day everyone has a different opinion. I'm sure Matt Painter, Holtman and others like CAM.... 🙄 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 So.... How many of you guys (and gals), think Justin Smith is gettin' the last laugh? Raise your hands...... ✋Looks like he knew something when he decided to transfer? I see where his team could be a #3 seed. And he will get to play in the Dance, while his teammates will be doing something else this Spring..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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