Rutgers Postgame Thread

[OLDIUFAN]

I don’t think Archie coached a good game. TJD wasn’t playing hard, Franklin was hobbled and hurting us. Hunter though he hit some 3s played terrible defense an gave those points right back. 
what happened for their poor play a time out and more playing time! 

[Hoosier Daddy 4]

3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

I will never stop watching or cheering for Hoosier basketball.  Didn't miss a game during Crean's 6-25 year.  I am also appreciative that today's game time gave me an excuse to start drinking at noon.  That said, to be honest, I don't even get very upset any more.  I wasn't really all that surprised today, so I'm not like all mad or anything.  Disappointed?  Sure, but this has been the norm for a long time now.  

I agree completely. Attended all the home games that year and watched half of them in replay when I got home. Will never stop watching but I’m ready for some progress. Start holding players more accountable for effort. I tell my daughter all the time who plays in high school that I don’t care if you miss all of your shots but if you don’t play hard and give effort I will be upset as should she. Let’s push past this being the norm. 

[Parakeet Jones]

3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

I can't really disagree with that, but I guess if you're playing the odds, you wouldn't predict we'd go 6-5 from here.  

Exactly. I’m not a big fan of the % probability of a win that get shown all the time on various sports networks, but I read this game today against Rutgers was the remaining game left we had the highest % chance of winning. The Iowa game proves you can’t rely on those numbers, but it does underscore the hill we have ahead of us. 

[FW_Hoosier]

1 minute ago, NCHoosier32 said:

I can't really disagree with that, but I guess if you're playing the odds, you wouldn't predict we'd go 6-5 from here.  

That’s probably the best case scenario.  5-6 or 4-7 may be more likely, but I guarantee they pick up at least 4 more wins somewhere.  

[NCHoosier32]

1 minute ago, Parakeet Jones said:

Exactly. I’m not a big fan of the % probability of a win that get shown all the time on various sports networks, but I read this game today against Rutgers was the remaining game left we had the highest % chance of winning. The Iowa game proves you can’t rely on those numbers, but it does underscore the hill we have ahead of us. 

See, that's what I want to look at.  Where can you see those numbers/predictions?  I know they aren't the end all be all, but I'm curious.  

[Parakeet Jones]

Just now, NCHoosier32 said:

See, that's what I want to look at.  Where can you see those numbers/predictions?  I know they aren't the end all be all, but I'm curious.  

Insidethehall posts them,  before every game. They get them from kenpom and Sagarin. If you look them up, let me know what you discover. 

[IUFLA]

So we talked about the lineup changes Pikell made, substituting a Sophomore (Mulcahy) and a Junior (McConnell) for a Senior (Young) and a Junior (Mathis). 

When we look to our bench right now, we can turn to a redshirt Sophomore (Hunter) or?

Freshmen...and although we have a wonderfully talented Freshman class, it'd be tough to play any of them 30 minutes per. 

You can say what you want, but our lack of depth hurts us, especially in the front court.

You can't abandon the upperclassmen at this point because the kids still look to them for leadership. 

I do believe though, that a more robust integration of the youth has begun...

[IU Scott]

Just now, IUFLA said:

So we talked about the lineup changes Pikell made, substituting a Sophomore (Mulcahy) and a Junior (McConnell) for a Senior (Young) and a Junior (Mathis). 

When we look to our bench right now, we can turn to a redshirt Sophomore (Hunter) or?

Freshmen...and although we have a wonderfully talented Freshman class, it'd be tough to play any of them 30 minutes per. 

You can say what you want, but our lack of depth hurts us, especially in the front court.

You can't abandon the upperclassmen at this point because the kids still look to them for leadership. 

I do believe though, that a more robust integration of the youth has begun...

Well in 84-85 at UI RMK started 4 freshman and UWE knowing they probably lose but to prove a point.  In 94 at Minnesota he benched the starting 5 at half and ended up losing by 54 points.

[IUCrazy2]

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

So we talked about the lineup changes Pikell made, substituting a Sophomore (Mulcahy) and a Junior (McConnell) for a Senior (Young) and a Junior (Mathis). 

When we look to our bench right now, we can turn to a redshirt Sophomore (Hunter) or?

Freshmen...and although we have a wonderfully talented Freshman class, it'd be tough to play any of them 30 minutes per. 

You can say what you want, but our lack of depth hurts us, especially in the front court.

You can't abandon the upperclassmen at this point because the kids still look to them for leadership. 

I do believe though, that a more robust integration of the youth has begun...

He didn't play those other players 30 minutes from what I noticed though.  He let then start and they got about a 5 minute run to start the game and then it went back to a more usual rotation.  The idea is not to replace Durham and Phinisee, that is not likely to happen.  The idea is to send a message to their brain via the butt.

[IUFLA]

Just now, IU Scott said:

Well in 84-85 at UI RMK started 4 freshman and UWE knowing they probably lose but to prove a point.  In 94 at Minnesota he benched the starting 5 at half and ended up losing by 54 points.

RMK had a little more leeway than Archie has at the moment.

 

[FWIUFan]

I've been a CAM supporter and will continue to support the team. I haven't found the "fire CAM" sage very useful since it simply will not happen and don't find it very productive in terms of advancing the program. I must say, however, that this team is making me schizophrenic.

I really like the character and the potential the players he has brought in. This last class in particular shows great promise.  They have shown flashes of being great (@Iowa, @ MSU).  Then again they have laid rotten eggs (Home-PU X 2, and even tonight).

I really can't understand the recurrent problems with shooting, FT, and long periods of non-existent offense.  And for a team the supposedly was built from the ground up to be a great defense, that ID simply is non-existent. The repetitive lack of mental toughness, mental awareness, tenacity, and attitude that abhors losing simply doesn't fit with the CAM's ID when he was recruited and we fall repeatedly to see it in his teams.

I think part of the reason for the lack of consistency is that we are still young as a team.  The older players have not established the culture we thought CAM would bring to this point.  I don't like to call players out but RP, AL, and even TJD simply are not bringing the attitude to play 110% ALL THE TIME that this team needs.  CAM on the other hand hasn't as yet been willing to sit the upper classmen ala CBK to help get their attitudes where they need to be.

In the Iowa game we saw the Iowa lead go away after we put our FR plates in.  There was much more intensity on D and much better flow the O when they came in. It seemed to be similar today when we finally cut the RU lead in the 2nd half.  Going forward, I would like to see CAM really change the lineups.  It's time to give the kids the keys to the car.  Would love to see what a starting lineup of KL, AF, JG, RT, and AL would do to set the tone early.  Bring RP, AL, and TJD off the bench.  I would simply like to move forward in the 2nd half of the season with the Frosh and let them learn as trial by fire.  We already know what the upperclassmen are bringing and just doesn't seem to be improving over time.  The FR show a lot more potential growth at this point.

 

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

He didn't play those other players 30 minutes from what I noticed though.  He let then start and they got about a 5 minute run to start the game and then it went back to a more usual rotation.  The idea is not to replace Durham and Phinisee, that is not likely to happen.  The idea is to send a message to their brain via the butt.

Not true... Mulcahy had 36 minutes, McConnell 26. Young got 22 and Mathis got 3.

[Feathery]

3 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

TJD continues to show he isn't an NBA player. I get that he could go pro, but I just don't see what some of you see that think he is for sure gone. 

He isn’t even in the first round of mock drafts. He is either not in at all or in the mid to late 2nd round. He is coming back IMO. 

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, Feathery said:

He isn’t even in the first round of mock drafts. He is either not in at all or in the mid to late 2nd round. He is coming back IMO. 

I agree but we have a lot of fans convinced he is gone for some reason. 

[Feathery]

3 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

At one point in the postgame presser after the loss today he was resting on his hands again. A guy who looks like he wants to be here huh? I know @BGleas and I debated this after Purdue. I just don’t get the vibe he really wants to be here, apathy maybe.  But something is just off. 

[IUCrazy2]

13 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Not true... Mulcahy had 36 minutes, McConnell 26. Young got 22 and Mathis got 3.

I guess I wasn't paying good enough attention.  I noticed Young quite a bit and assumed Mathis was getting minutes too.

But...do you think he knew he was going to get that good of production from the guys he inserted into the line up?  Sometimes giving a guy a chance leads to good things too.  Lander got a decent amount of minutes and did ok for a freshman from my POV.  He had a guy jawing at him and responded by making a 3.  Sometimes effort is contagious.

[IU Scott]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree but we have a lot of fans convinced he is gone for some reason. 

Because we  see guys every year declare for the draft who is not ready for the NBA

[IUwins0708]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I agree but we have a lot of fans convinced he is gone for some reason. 

I agree he’s not close to being ready but I think his plan all along has been to stay 2 years and leave.  Even though it’s just an extra year the NBA execs would take a less productive 20 year old over a more productive 21 year old if their potentials were on par with one another.  I hope he comes back and learns to use that off hand and finds a jump shot.  I still personally believe he’s gone.

[dbmhoosier]

4 minutes ago, Feathery said:

At one point in the postgame presser after the loss today he was resting on his hands again. A guy who looks like he wants to be here huh? I know @BGleas and I debated this after Purdue. I just don’t get the vibe he really wants to be here, apathy maybe.  But something is just off. 

He doesn't clearly.  But that chedda he's owed?

[KoB2011]

https://twitter.com/ChronicHoosier/status/1353466766077386752?s=19

[Feathery]

Just now, IUwins0708 said:

I agree he’s not close to being ready but I think his plan all along has been to stay 2 years and leave.  Even though it’s just an extra year the NBA execs would take a less productive 20 year old over a more productive 21 year old if their potentials were on par with one another.  I hope he comes back and learns to use that off hand and finds a jump shot.  I still personally believe he’s gone.

Even if he is a late 2nd pound pick or not drafted at all? Money shouldn’t be an issue here. 

[IUwins0708]

3 minutes ago, Feathery said:

Even if he is a late 2nd pound pick or not drafted at all? Money shouldn’t be an issue here. 

Unfortunately I don’t think he cares if he’s 1st or 2nd round.  Obviously not a first rounder but I’m sure he would be invited to a camp .

[IUCrazy2]

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

https://twitter.com/ChronicHoosier/status/1353466766077386752?s=19

He's 9-5 and 2-5 in his conference.  Glass houses.

[KoB2011]

Just now, IUwins0708 said:

I agree he’s not close to being ready but I think his plan all along has been to stay 2 years and leave.  Even though it’s just an extra year the NBA execs would take a less productive 20 year old over a more productive 21 year old if their potentials were on par with one another.  I hope he comes back and learns to use that off hand and finds a jump shot.  I still personally believe he’s gone.

Sure, people can always make bad decisions but I completely disagree with your assessment. He currently hasn't shown potential to play in the NBA and he can do that next year. 

I'm not sure he got better at any single thing NBA teams would have told him to work on. The biggest difference in his stats from this year to last are all accounted for with increased usage. 

I imagine a conversation when he puts his name in the draft to be like this. 

TJD: "I think I'm ready to come out this year."

Scout: "you didn't get better at any of the things we told you last year."

TJD: "yeah but I put up big numbers and had some huge game against guys who won't play pro ball."

Scout: "yeah, and when you played guys with nba size, length, and athleticism it became very obvious why you need a jumper and need to learn to use your off hand."

TJD: "I'm still coming out."

Scout: "enjoy Europe."

[IUwins0708]

Just now, KoB2011 said:

Sure, people can always make bad decisions but I completely disagree with your assessment. He currently hasn't shown potential to play in the NBA and he can do that next year. 

I'm not sure he got better at any single thing NBA teams would have told him to work on. The biggest difference in his stats from this year to last are all accounted for with increased usage. 

I imagine a conversation when he puts his name in the draft to be like this. 

TJD: "I think I'm ready to come out this year."

Scout: "you didn't get better at any of the things we told you last year."

TJD: "yeah but I put up big numbers and had some huge game against guys who won't play pro ball."

Scout: "yeah, and when you played guys with nba size, length, and athleticism it became very obvious why you need a jumper and need to learn to use your off hand."

TJD: "I'm still coming out."

Scout: "enjoy Europe."

I don’t disagree at all.