dgambill Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 7 minutes ago, BGleas said: Agree. Hiring a mid major coach is like recruiting in the 130-150+ range. Sure, you may get lucky and stumble into a Victor Oladipo, but more often than not you're going to end up with guys like Al Durham, Rob Phinisee, Damezi Anderson and Jake Forrester. Recruit in the 5*/top 25 range and yes you could end up with some overrated guys, but more often than not you're going to get a Cody Zeller, Thomas Bryant, Yogi Ferrel, TJD, etc. If we get to the point of a move being made, IU needs to expect to be in the $5M+ range and go get a legit, proven high major coach. Perfect analysis. I like what UCLA did...I mean they should have thrown way way more money at Cal but you go big you go for your goal but at least when they settled they settled for a great coach at a major university with a proven track record. Cronin can coach...he has always just had to work with second class recruits...now recruits fall in his lap and I bet he will be a regular s16 coach with an occasional run past that. They say they accept they don’t need to win championships they just want contenders every year but we will see how long that lasts. At this point if we can’t land the home run then we need a coach that will do the same and build this program back. I look at guys already proven in major conferences as those fall back guys. Say a Scott Drew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotIThatLives Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 5 hours ago, Bustout said: I’m 99.5% certain he isn’t quitting. Exactly. Just like CTC wasn't having his agent look for other jobs. If that would have truly been the case he wouldn't have chilled in broadcasting for a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Also where did most of the elite coaches come from when they got there elite job RMK- Army Coach K- Army Boheim- assistant coach at Syracuse Wooden- ISU Calhoun- Northeastern Stevens- worked for Eli Lilly and assistant at Butler Donovan- Marshall Pitino- Providence and Knicks Cal- Memphis Few- assistant coach Beilein- W. Virgina Honestly, anything before the previous 20 years or so is kind of irrelevant. The landscape has changed so much over the last 20-30 years. How IU got Knight, how UCLA got Wooden, or how Duke got Coach K isn't comparable anymore. Kansas - Self came from Illinois UNC - Williams came from Kansas Louisville - Pitino came from the NBA/Kentucky UK - Cal came from Memphis which I don't really consider a mid-major and had NBA experience Virginia - Tony Bennett came from WSU, while not a bball powerhouse is still a PAC-12 school Ohio State - Holtman came from the Big East UCLA - Cronin came from Cinncinati (like Memphis, not a mid-major) There are many ways to skin a cat and there is no hard/fast rule, I just think IU has been down the young, unproven or short resume coach (Davis, Crean, Archie), if a move is made it's time to go the proven, stable route and get someone that can right the ship and stabilize things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 13 minutes ago, BGleas said: Well, definitions of failure can differ and money can be a big reason as well. Regardless, Dolson or any AD cannot make these decisions without approval. If Archie tenure here is not the definition of failure than it is obvious why we have and will continue to suck on the basketball floor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Just now, Cutter said: If Archie tenure here is not the definition of failure than it is obvious why we have and will continue to suck on the basketball floor Regardless, Dolson can't make a move without a bevy of approvals above him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, Cutter said: If Archie tenure here is not the definition of failure than it is obvious why we have and will continue to suck on the basketball floor Well one this season is not over to call this season a failure. Lucky you wasn't the AD for Duke after coach K's first 3.5 years because you would have fired him. We would have made the tournament last year and still have a chance this year so it would not be a total failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Just now, BGleas said: Regardless, Dolson can't make a move without a bevy of approvals above him. Glass did not need their approval when he hired Archie he said it was his decision alone. So I am sure he had the green light to make the hire. Tell me the difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Well one this season is not over to call this season a failure. Lucky you wasn't the AD for Duke after coach K's first 3.5 years because you would have fired him. We would have made the tournament last year and still have one this year so it would not be a total failure. Scott I have read all of your opinions and yes I am quite a bit older than you old school . You are talking apples and oranges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Money is not so much the issue. I was generally speaking in an above post to sway the tide of conversation but it didn’t work. Think about what it’s going to cost to stay the course vs the buyout. There is more to the grand scheme of things than just annual salary. Recruiting budget for example. It’s not 3 million a year from now vs 10 million now. Whats the likely total expense for another wasted year vs the current buyout terms. Side note... when a handful of $ people decide it’s time, then it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cutter said: Glass did not need their approval when he hired Archie he said it was his decision alone. So I am sure he had the green light to make the hire. Tell me the difference Glass picked him but had to go through a process for the approval from the president and BOT. it appeared Greenspan was going to hire Beilein but Herbert wanted Sampson so who got their way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Inequality said: Money is not so much the issue. I was generally speaking in an above post to sway the tide of conversation but it didn’t work. Think about what it’s going to cost to stay the course vs the buyout. There is more to the grand scheme of things than just annual salary. Recruiting budget for example. It’s not 3 million a year from now vs 10 million now. Whats the likely total expense for another wasted year vs the current buyout terms. Side note... when a handful of $ people decide it’s time, then it happens. I agree with you 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Cutter said: Glass did not need their approval when he hired Archie he said it was his decision alone. So I am sure he had the green light to make the hire. Tell me the difference First, I don't believe that quote from Glass for a second. Second, there are a host of legal, financial and PR t's to cross and i's to dot before you fire someone or even go down the path of securing the money to fire someone. They are completely different processes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 Just now, IU Scott said: Glass picked him but had to go through a process for the approval from the president and BOT. it appeared Greenspan was going to hire Beilein but Herbert wanted Sampson so who got their way. I liked your post by mistake! You are wrong on glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, BGleas said: First, I don't believe that quote from Glass for a second. Second, there are a host of legal, financial and PR t's to cross and i's to dot before you fire someone or even go down the path of securing the money to fire someone. They are completely different processes. Yes one is the decision and the other is the paper work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Cutter said: Yes one is the decision and the other is the paper work! Again, regardless Dolson cannot make the decision to fire Archie on his own. Organizations of this level do not operate that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 25 minutes ago, BGleas said: Honestly, anything before the previous 20 years or so is kind of irrelevant. The landscape has changed so much over the last 20-30 years. How IU got Knight, how UCLA got Wooden, or how Duke got Coach K isn't comparable anymore. Kansas - Self came from Illinois UNC - Williams came from Kansas Louisville - Pitino came from the NBA/Kentucky UK - Cal came from Memphis which I don't really consider a mid-major and had NBA experience Virginia - Tony Bennett came from WSU, while not a bball powerhouse is still a PAC-12 school Ohio State - Holtman came from the Big East UCLA - Cronin came from Cinncinati (like Memphis, not a mid-major) There are many ways to skin a cat and there is no hard/fast rule, I just think IU has been down the young, unproven or short resume coach (Davis, Crean, Archie), if a move is made it's time to go the proven, stable route and get someone that can right the ship and stabilize things. Exactly...college landscape vastly different. If you were a powerhouse school/blue blood then almost any “good” coach you get is going to turn out great...you aren’t competing with mid majors etc for talent. Now There is so many more teams competing for best talent and so much more parity you have to be top of your coaching game to succeed anywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 20 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Well one this season is not over to call this season a failure. Lucky you wasn't the AD for Duke after coach K's first 3.5 years because you would have fired him. We would have made the tournament last year and still have a chance this year so it would not be a total failure. If you think about it, it's possible Duke may have won 6-7 Championships, other than just 5, if they would have hired someone other than K. We'll never know, but it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 17 minutes ago, BGleas said: Again, regardless Dolson cannot make the decision to fire Archie on his own. Organizations of this level do not operate that way. Dolson can make that decision and it will be approved. Do you think they would say no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Cutter said: Dolson can make that decision and it will be approved. Do you think they would say no? Dolson can make the recommendation. If he goes for it this year, given the buyout and the pandemic (including financial and PR ramifications of it) they may very well say no. But again, the point is that they can say no, not whether or not they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 6 minutes ago, BGleas said: Dolson can make the recommendation. If he goes for it this year, given the buyout and the pandemic (including financial and PR ramifications of it) they may very well say no. But again, the point is that they can say no, not whether or not they will. Do you think it is a good decision to continue to pay a coach that has a losing record in the conference 3 million a year plus the further deterioration of the perception and in my eyes as well as others the reality that we are insignificant in the college basketball world as far as conference and national impact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 3 minutes ago, Cutter said: Do you think it is a good decision to continue to pay a coach that has a losing record in the conference 3 million a year plus the further deterioration of the perception and in my eyes as well as others the reality that we are insignificant in the college basketball world as far as conference and national impact Question is does the leaders at the top put the same emphasis on basketball as we do. It might not be their priority to make a change even if they feel it is in the best interest. There are many at IU that want the attention off athletics and on academics and enjoy that basketball is no longer what IU is known for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustout Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 56 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said: Exactly. Just like CTC wasn't having his agent look for other jobs. If that would have truly been the case he wouldn't have chilled in broadcasting for a year. CTC and Archie, to me, are two completely different personalities. Just don’t see Archie bailing IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, Cutter said: Do you think it is a good decision to continue to pay a coach that has a losing record in the conference 3 million a year plus the further deterioration of the perception and in my eyes as well as others the reality that we are insignificant in the college basketball world as far as conference and national impact Doesn't really matter, the discussion was whether Dolson can unilaterally make the decision and he cannot. I personally don't think you make a move unless there is a proven, Power 5 winner that you know you have lined up. There are a lot of things to be concerned about with the program, and I'm not happy with the progress, I also think Archie is closer to breaking through than we all think. If a top-flight, elite coach is ready to come then I would support a change, if we're bringing in the next mid-major du jour, then I'd rather let Archie see what he can do with our freshmen and sophomores classes. But again, to the point of the original discussion, Dolson cannot make the call on his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feathery Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 hour ago, IU Scott said: In the last 45 years UCLA has had 11 coaches and none of them were really considered big time hires except for Larry Brown. they have had one great year in 95 to win a championship and that coach left because of NCAA problems. They fired a coach who went to 3 straight final fours so how has that worked for them. They should have kept Howland. But you think staying the course with supper coaching is the answer? I’m not saying make a change for the sake of it. I’m saying unless he turns it around Archie has failed, and a change will need to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 6, 2021 Report Share Posted February 6, 2021 1 minute ago, BGleas said: I also think Archie is closer to breaking through than we all think. Amen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.