Izzo

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, Dawg Bawls said:

Of course they are...but at some point, you have to press on...become own MAN...stop making excuses about past and use that as fuel not as victimhood...there are lots of sorry parents out there...but that doesn't mean the kids have to be sorry...parents are just part of their growing experience..

I understand what you're saying, but it takes an exceptionally strong person to do that without any guidance. My parents were a HUGE part of what I am even today...And I'm thankful for that...

For those that didn't have that advantage, having people like @btownqb and @Billingsley99 pass through their lives surely is a huge benefit...

[Dawg Bawls]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I understand what you're saying, but it takes an exceptionally strong person to do that without any guidance. My parents were a HUGE part of what I am even today...And I'm thankful for that...

For those that didn't have that advantage, having people like @btownqb and @Billingsley99 pass through their lives surely is a huge benefit...

I guess because MY experience through life was so much different...I feel when you become 18+ you should be strong enough to handle life...I was swimming off coast of Somalia, lighting off mines at 19..so yeah I think these guys should be able to handle a little yelling and shoving...😉

[Billingsley99]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I understand what you're saying, but it takes an exceptionally strong person to do that without any guidance. My parents were a HUGE part of what I am even today...And I'm thankful for that...

For those that didn't have that advantage, having people like @btownqb and @Billingsley99 pass through their lives surely is a huge benefit...

I truly appreciate the kind words. I grew up with nothing single Mom most members of my family never finished high school let alone go to college. My high school coaches Jim Shannon and Rob Moorehead were the reasons why I did go to college and helped instill a toughness to survive. Without people like that I am not sure where I would have ended up. I have always tried to be that type of example for my students and players. My family has taken in players in the past that had no where to go we have bought groceries paid utilities for kids that had nothing even thought it was hard financially for us and we made some sacrifices to make differences in kids lives becasue someone did that for me. It was not until college that I realized that players had to pay for their shoes and stuff to be on the team. I did not have the money it was just always provided so I made it a point to never let a kid not play because of finances we found a way. My wife and me and my coaches had been to many a goodwill to purchases dress clothes for players that had none and I demanded that we dress up on game days. Not trying to pat myself on the back but that is the part of teaching and coaching than many don't understand, and in the process we are trying to make men of boys and better their lives. I do it because someone believed in me and it was not because I was a star. 

[Dawg Bawls]

38 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Somebody in this thread definitely has dawg bawls hanging from the trailer hitch of their truck. 😘

😘...😁yeah they have me on the good stuff this morning...4wk in hospital...getting stir crazy I guess...

[bluegrassIU]

So, thoughts on Izzo?   😁

[dgambill]

8 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I know Tom Izzo is a polarizing figure on this board at times, but he had yet another incident with a player heading into halftime of their loss to UCLA. 

Sparty was up 11 at the half, but Gabe Brown missed a switch. As he and Izzo yelled at each other, Brown walked way and Izzo grabbed him. 

I actually think both parties are in the wrong, but Sparty collapsed and lost a doubled digit lead. What, if any, blame do you put on that incident for the collapse?

A little late to this but I think it's a sign of the disconnect he has had all year. Katz was right after the game. The reason they have been up and down is because he hasn't reached his kids this year. I believe its two fold. One, no leader on the court (apologies to Aaron Henry...he is a good kid but not a born leader), and two not having time with his team all summer and year due to covid to work with these kids and create that tough love family atmosphere he has so often leaned upon to support his in your face coaching. Is it cracks in his persona...are we seeing a beginning of the end. I want to see how next year turns out before I say for certain but I do think Izzo style and the new type of AAU college top recruit is becoming a little more oil and water then people like to think. Kinda like Knight....it takes a special player to want to be coached that hard...to be held accountable...and how many top recruits still want to do that. I think he can certainly still be successful because his type of basketball still resonates and is viable but can he stay at the top of the B1G consistently and make runs at a championship still??? I think if he gets a special group of kids sure...but I think we are going to see like Knight him struggle to fill his team with his type of players who are of the caliber he used to get. I see a slow decline...unless he changes and mellows...or he has enough of it and retires. I also don't think his brand will translate to the next coach as well. There is only one Izzo...going to be hard to replace that..might just have to have a total culture change there to have success right away. We shall see...whatever the case but I think the era of the B1G championship running through MSU is over. They will still have years at the top but it won't just be a given...they are going to have more ups and downs.

[btownqb]

37 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

Oh boy. Bunch of old guys yelling at clouds. The world is changing. It happens all the time. Women vote now, for example. We have cars and cell phones. The kids that you're calling "soft" and on and on and on are the ones that are changing the world for the better in many ways, and are dealing with things that your generation has watched get worse and worse while doing little to nothing about it - the cost of education or the issues with the environment, for example. The world is a much different place than when you were younger. Imagine if every single dumb thing you did or said in your teens was immediately available to everyone, and not just everyone at your school, but everyone. Whether you like social media or not, it's here, it's been here over a decade, and it's here to stay. You either accept that and learn to live with it, or you do what you're doing now, and complain about how soft everyone that's not your age is, while ignoring that in some ways, your generation has made things much more difficult. 

As for the "get off your phones" nonsense, I'm pretty sure a lot of you had Ataris, or Intellivisions, or spent significant time in a video game arcade in the 80s, or Ninetendo in the 90s, and so forth. When I was younger, television was ruining kids, then it was explicit lyrics, then video games, and now it's social media. Give it a rest.

The kids today aren't the problem. Your fear of change and your inability to adjust to it is.

None of that should have been directed at me. I spend probably 90% of my life bettering the lives of our youth. I understand the obstacles they are facing as much as anyone on this board. I have no problem with them being on their phones, but to say social media doesn't influence them HEAVILY is wrong. I had none of what you mentioned, not that that really matters. 

I also assume it wasn't directed at me because you mentioned "old guys". To say that this generation isn't soft.. I'm not sure I would ever disagree with a statement more. Now... I don't its nearly all there fault at all. We aren't consistently holding them accountable and we aren't putting them in enough difficult situations as young people to be able to handle the difficulties of life later on. We aren't "testing" them enough. @Billingsley99 was exactly right with what he said about that. 

[NotIThatLives]

14 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

So, thoughts on Izzo?   😁

Izzo is trash but what you saw last night is 2 guys being fierce competitors.  A young man not wanting to accept responsibility for a minor mistake.  And old man that whines and cries and wears his emotions on his sleeve, easily could have waited until the locker room and probably taught something out of it rather than make him and the kid a talking point this morning.  

The nature versus nurture argument is silly.  Both are correct and everyone is different.  

[btownqb]

19 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

So, thoughts on Izzo?   😁

It's relative though. Izzo isn't going to recruit kids that he can't coach the way he wants. I bet he LOVES Brown, loves him. I know some of the kids that have spouted off to me are the ones I ended up enjoying the most after we "had it out". I bet Michael Lewis was one of BKs favorites (I vaguely remember ML playing at IU). 

As a team... when things aren't going well, you had better be getting into it with people. It had better bother everyone. If not... then you have a real problem. 

[tdhoosier]

5 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

I truly appreciate the kind words. I grew up with nothing single Mom most members of my family never finished high school let alone go to college. My high school coaches Jim Shannon and Rob Moorehead were the reasons why I did go to college and helped instill a toughness to survive. Without people like that I am not sure where I would have ended up. I have always tried to be that type of example for my students and players. My family has taken in players in the past that had no where to go we have bought groceries paid utilities for kids that had nothing even thought it was hard financially for us and we made some sacrifices to make differences in kids lives becasue someone did that for me. It was not until college that I realized that players had to pay for their shoes and stuff to be on the team. I did not have the money it was just always provided so I made it a point to never let a kid not play because of finances we found a way. My wife and me and my coaches had been to many a goodwill to purchases dress clothes for players that had none and I demanded that we dress up on game days. Not trying to pat myself on the back but that is the part of teaching and coaching than many don't understand, and in the process we are trying to make men of boys and better their lives. I do it because someone believed in me and it was not because I was a star. 

I always thought of you as a good dude, but this reinforces it. 

Macro: I personally think that a ‘man’ needs to have more important traits than ‘changing a tire’. I’ll teach my boy how to do that, but I know he’s going to be more comfortable coding a website in the long run. Not only do I accept that but I appreciate it. Nature makes every human differently. When raising a boy into a man, for me first comes instilling accountability, honesty and empathy. Confidence stems from them being comfortable in their own skin and comfortable in the decisions they make. We aren’t living in mid evil times and being a ‘man’ is not determined by how well you can take a literal punch. Nerds pretty much rule the world now. And whether we like to admit it or not we depend on the systems and technology they’ve created. 

Micro: People need to calm down about Izzo. As much as we love to hate Izzo, I guarantee his players and former players believe he’s helping to instill those traits I mentioned above. Let’s wait to see if the kid some are feeling offended for, actually feels offended. 

[btownqb]

 

2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I always thought of you as a good dude, but this reinforces it. 

Macro: I personally think that a ‘man’ needs to have more important traits than ‘changing a tire’. I’ll teach my boy how to do that, but I know he’s going to be more comfortable coding a website in the long run. Not only do I accept that but I appreciate it. Nature makes every human differently. When raising a boy into a man, for me first comes instilling accountability, honesty and empathy. Confidence stems from them being comfortable in their own skin and comfortable in the decisions they make. We aren’t living in mid evil times and being a ‘man’ is not determined by how well you can take a literal punch. Nerds pretty much rule the world now. And whether we like to admit it or not we depend on the systems and technology they’ve created. 

Micro: People need to calm down about Izzo. As much as we love to hate Izzo, I guarantee his players and former players believe he’s helping to instill those traits I mentioned above. Let’s wait to see if the kid some are feeling offended for, actually feels offended. 

This is a really good post. 

[AxnJxn]

9 minutes ago, btownqb said:

None of that should have been directed at me. I spend probably 90% of my life bettering the lives of our youth. I understand the obstacles they are facing as much as anyone on this board. I have no problem with them being on their phones, but to say social media doesn't influence them HEAVILY is wrong. I had none of what you mentioned, not that that really matters. 

I also assume it wasn't directed at me because you mentioned "old guys". To say that this generation isn't soft.. I'm not sure I would ever disagree with a statement more. Now... I don't its nearly all there fault at all. We aren't consistently holding them accountable and we aren't putting them in enough difficult situations as young people to be able to handle the difficulties of life later on. We aren't "testing" them enough. @Billingsley99 was exactly right with what he said about that. 

I never said social media doesn't influence them heavily - in fact, I pretty much said the opposite of that, so that makes me wonder if you actually read my post. You are falling into the same pitfall as your parents, and the parents before them, and so on. Every generation is considered "softer" than the previous, and yet these kids are dealing with as much if not more than you did at their age on a daily basis, and yes, that includes social media and other things that YOUR generation didn't fix or ignored. I'd also wager a lot of money that the majority of you complaining about cell phones were told by your parents to stop watching so much TV or playing video games or whatever. 

[beaver56]

We must all adapt to succeed and if you don't you will get lost.  I feel my kids are soft, but tend to forget that I am over the top at times.  Kids need to work through emotions and learn to cope in tough situations, however adults, coaches, mentors, etc. have to understand their players.  Was Brown out of line, sure, but you can't excuse the way Izzo acted no matter what the situation is.  If he can't control himself better than than on national TV imagine what happens when nobody is around.

Now, more than ever, kids deal with really adult situations at a young age.  The quickest way to get a harsh reaction from them is to disrespect them and get loud and aggressive with them.  The world has changed and leaders have to change as well.  This IMO ultimately was the what led to the downfall of Coach Knight.  We may not agree, but it is reality.  The greatest leaders adjust and morph into what their people who rely on them need.  It is all about relationships in most cases.

[NCHoosier32]

49 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

So, thoughts on Izzo?   😁

I'm a fan

[NCHoosier32]

39 minutes ago, dgambill said:

A little late to this but I think it's a sign of the disconnect he has had all year. Katz was right after the game. The reason they have been up and down is because he hasn't reached his kids this year. I believe its two fold. One, no leader on the court (apologies to Aaron Henry...he is a good kid but not a born leader), and two not having time with his team all summer and year due to covid to work with these kids and create that tough love family atmosphere he has so often leaned upon to support his in your face coaching. Is it cracks in his persona...are we seeing a beginning of the end. I want to see how next year turns out before I say for certain but I do think Izzo style and the new type of AAU college top recruit is becoming a little more oil and water then people like to think. Kinda like Knight....it takes a special player to want to be coached that hard...to be held accountable...and how many top recruits still want to do that. I think he can certainly still be successful because his type of basketball still resonates and is viable but can he stay at the top of the B1G consistently and make runs at a championship still??? I think if he gets a special group of kids sure...but I think we are going to see like Knight him struggle to fill his team with his type of players who are of the caliber he used to get. I see a slow decline...unless he changes and mellows...or he has enough of it and retires. I also don't think his brand will translate to the next coach as well. There is only one Izzo...going to be hard to replace that..might just have to have a total culture change there to have success right away. We shall see...whatever the case but I think the era of the B1G championship running through MSU is over. They will still have years at the top but it won't just be a given...they are going to have more ups and downs.

i think you're right about this, but i hate it.  

[btownqb]

13 minutes ago, AxnJxn said:

I never said social media doesn't influence them heavily - in fact, I pretty much said the opposite of that, so that makes me wonder if you actually read my post. You are falling into the same pitfall as your parents, and the parents before them, and so on. Every generation is considered "softer" than the previous, and yet these kids are dealing with as much if not more than you did at their age on a daily basis, and yes, that includes social media and other things that YOUR generation didn't fix or ignored. I'd also wager a lot of money that the majority of you complaining about cell phones were told by your parents to stop watching so much TV or playing video games or whatever. 

I'm not a parent. My generation didn't fix? I'm 30. I'm literally working all day, every day to HELP fix things. They shouldn't be exposed to a lot of what they are... especially at very young ages. I for one don't have nearly the problem with our youth, as I do the people raising it. (Your generation). 

[NCHoosier32]

11 minutes ago, beaver56 said:

We must all adapt to succeed and if you don't you will get lost.  I feel my kids are soft, but tend to forget that I am over the top at times.  Kids need to work through emotions and learn to cope in tough situations, however adults, coaches, mentors, etc. have to understand their players.  Was Brown out of line, sure, but you can't excuse the way Izzo acted no matter what the situation is.  If he can't control himself better than than on national TV imagine what happens when nobody is around.

Now, more than ever, kids deal with really adult situations at a young age.  The quickest way to get a harsh reaction from them is to disrespect them and get loud and aggressive with them.  The world has changed and leaders have to change as well.  This IMO ultimately was the what led to the downfall of Coach Knight.  We may not agree, but it is reality.  The greatest leaders adjust and morph into what their people who rely on them need.  It is all about relationships in most cases.

i acknowledge that you can't coach kids the same these days.  it is one of a few reasons i got out of coaching high school ball when i did.  it's just a shame because i still think you could often get more out of them if you could.  

[Dawg Bawls]

3 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i acknowledge that you can't coach kids the same these days.  it is one of a few reasons i got out of coaching high school ball when i did.  it's just a shame because i still think you could often get more out of them if you could.  

Me too...I coached track...parents complained cause kids puked and I ran them too much...I ran with them by the way😉...sad part was I was girls coach and they never complained...it was when boys ran with us...lol

[btownqb]

12 minutes ago, beaver56 said:

We must all adapt to succeed and if you don't you will get lost.  I feel my kids are soft, but tend to forget that I am over the top at times.  Kids need to work through emotions and learn to cope in tough situations, however adults, coaches, mentors, etc. have to understand their players.  Was Brown out of line, sure, but you can't excuse the way Izzo acted no matter what the situation is.  If he can't control himself better than than on national TV imagine what happens when nobody is around.

Now, more than ever, kids deal with really adult situations at a young age.  The quickest way to get a harsh reaction from them is to disrespect them and get loud and aggressive with them.  The world has changed and leaders have to change as well.  This IMO ultimately was the what led to the downfall of Coach Knight.  We may not agree, but it is reality.  The greatest leaders adjust and morph into what their people who rely on them need.  It is all about relationships in most cases.

I coach under a HOF coach in football... I've never witnessed someone that is consistently harder on kids than he is. He gets results though and he adapts to the times. The one thing that he has never compromised is the standard that we expect our kids to compete and behave at. He's backed off January-July in how intense he used to be then.. he eases into his "in season" form now. Hundreds of different things he has changed, altered, and compromised on.. the way our kids play, act, and treat others have not suffered at all. There is a way for it to work. 

[beaver56]

Just now, btownqb said:

I'm not a parent. My generation didn't fix? I'm 30. I'm literally working all day, every day to HELP fix things. They shouldn't be exposed to a lot of what they are... especially at very young ages. I for one don't have nearly the problem with our youth, as I do the people raising it. (Your generation). 

Being 43 and working with kids daily, I can reaffirm that most of today's parents suck.  Even the the ones who provide material luxuries for their kids.  Kids are enabled and unfortunately not held accountable for their actions.  My kids complain at how strict my wife and I are with them, but as they are growing up they are seeing why we are.  It is a tough line to walk.  Parents are role models and mentors, not friends.  The friendship grows through respect, age, and the realization that you love you give them.

[BobSaccamanno]

The game is passing him by.  If you were a top recruit why on earth would you want to go there?  It’s toxic. 

[beaver56]

4 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i acknowledge that you can't coach kids the same these days.  it is one of a few reasons i got out of coaching high school ball when i did.  it's just a shame because i still think you could often get more out of them if you could.  

I agree.  That is why building relationships with each kid is huge.  Some kids love being yelled at.  Others don't, but as a coach you have to figure out what works best.  The days of my way or the highway are becoming fewer and further between.  Expectations and structure are non-negotiable in my eyes, but how to your treat a kid is a choice.  I have had players you could scream at and they would run through the wall and others who would simply fold.  The magic of coaching, or leading, for that matter is knowing how to treat each one no matter if they are the stud or the dud.

[beaver56]

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I coach under a HOF coach in football... I've never witnessed someone that is consistently harder on kids than he is. He gets results though and he adapts to the times. The one thing that he has never compromised is the standard that we expect our kids to compete and behave at. He's backed off January-July in how intense he used to be then.. he eases into his "in season" form now. Hundreds of different things he has changed, altered, and compromised on.. the way our kids play, act, and treat others have not suffered at all. There is a way for it to work. 

I agree wholeheartedly.

[NCHoosier32]

Just now, beaver56 said:

I agree.  That is why building relationships with each kid is huge.  Some kids love being yelled at.  Others don't, but as a coach you have to figure out what works best.  The days of my way or the highway are becoming fewer and further between.  Expectations and structure are non-negotiable in my eyes, but how to your treat a kid is a choice.  I have had players you could scream at and they would run through the wall and others who would simply fold.  The magic of coaching, or leading, for that matter is knowing how to treat each one no matter if they are the stud or the dud.

100% agree.  just fewer and fewer who really want to be pushed these days  more and more want to hear how great they are.  

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, beaver56 said:

Being 43 and working with kids daily, I can reaffirm that most of today's parents suck.  Even the the ones who provide material luxuries for their kids.  Kids are enabled and unfortunately not held accountable for their actions.  My kids complain at how strict my wife and I are with them, but as they are growing up they are seeing why we are.  It is a tough line to walk.  Parents are role models and mentors, not friends.  The friendship grows through respect, age, and the realization that you love you give them.

🙏 What is your profession? This is an absolutely excellent post btw. We are starting to struggle more and more with kids from families that are "well off" as much as we are ones that aren't. Incredibly frustrating at times. 

However.. I do relish the success stories. I have a student now.. moms a drug addict, dad was never in the picture... being raised by older sister. He was going to try out for our basketball team this winter. I told him that I didn't believe that was a good choice for him because I thought he would get cut, told him I think he needed to wrestle and play football. He agreed. Had a really good wrestling season, absolutely loved it. Decided to run track and play football, as well. He hasn't missed a day of school since October, He has no discipline referrals this entire school year after having 45 of them from K-9th grade. He had As, Bs, and Cs first semester. 

He's hungry, he's motivated. He is tired of living in poverty. I'm proud of him. 100% of the credit goes to him.