KoB2011 Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You just answered your own question... Competing for championships is the standard...Winning the championship is the goal.. I don't think a competitive, accomplished person looks at where we were last year and how the season unfolded and thinks we did that. I think you really need to stop questioning Woody and where he wants us to be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I don't think a competitive, accomplished person looks at where we were last year and how the season unfolded and thinks we did that. I think you really need to stop questioning Woody and where he wants us to be. I don't think a realistic person could have an issue with last season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, btownqb said: I don't think a realistic person could have an issue with last season. Not at all, especially considering the circumstances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Not at all, especially considering the circumstances... last year was fine... this year could end up that way, as well.... I expect to replace XJ with a portal PG that has more offensive capabilities, Reneau to progress, etc... and EXPECT to be back to being a Top 16 team next season. UCONN didn't frustrate me... Auburn/Army games sure as hell did though. I could understand our fanbase being pretty uneasy if we go through conference season this year poorly and miss the tourney. That would make sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 8 minutes ago, btownqb said: last year was fine... this year could end up that way, as well.... I expect to replace XJ with a portal PG that has more offensive capabilities, Reneau to progress, etc... and EXPECT to be back to being a Top 16 team next season. UCONN didn't frustrate me... Auburn/Army games sure as hell did though. I could understand our fanbase being pretty uneasy if we go through conference season this year poorly and miss the tourney. That would make sense to me. I don't know...Young team with a lot of talent...I think how we play against an experienced mid tier team will say a lot about our progress... And I'm sure the screaming will be deafening if we don't make the tournament this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: I don't know...Young team with a lot of talent...I think how we play against an experienced mid tier team will say a lot about our progress... And I'm sure the screaming will be deafening if we don't make the tournament this year As in, how we play tomorrow night? sorry I didn't follow. I thought on Saturday we showed a lot. We should not be missing the tourney this season. Especially with the 2-0 start to the B1G. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 34 minutes ago, btownqb said: I don't think a realistic person could have an issue with last season. I don't think anyone has said they had an issue with it. Can you point that out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 5 minutes ago, btownqb said: As in, how we play tomorrow night? sorry I didn't follow. I thought on Saturday we showed a lot. We should not be missing the tourney this season. Especially with the 2-0 start to the B1G. Yeah, I worry about a let down after the short turnaround...Especially with our youth... I thought we showed a lot too...And I think those first 4 games after we finish the non-conference schedule (@Nebraska, OSU at home, @Rutgers, and Minnesota at home) can put us in good position when we hit the rough part of our schedule... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: I don't think anyone has said they had an issue with it. Can you point that out? I guess I didn't read your post 100% correctly the first time. But, I did expect a decent drop from last season, XJ's continuous injuries have pretty well cemented that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 26 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yeah, I worry about a let down after the short turnaround...Especially with our youth... I thought we showed a lot too...And I think those first 4 games after we finish the non-conference schedule (@Nebraska, OSU at home, @Rutgers, and Minnesota at home) can put us in good position when we hit the rough part of our schedule... 100% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: You just answered your own question... Competing for championships is the standard...Winning the championship is the goal.. A Big Ten title is as strong an indicator, if not stronger, about the health of the program as a National title is. There is significantly more luck involved to get that NCAA banner than there is to get one for conference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: A Big Ten title is as strong an indicator, if not stronger, about the health of the program as a National title is. There is significantly more luck involved to get that NCAA banner than there is to get one for conference. Easier goal to attain, that's for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyhoosier29 Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: This statement is untrue... We finished 12-8 in the Big 10...The teams that tied for 12th (Nebraska and Wisconsin) finished 9-11... Y'all need to stop making stuff up to support your agenda... Simply going off of memory. Correction…. There were 10 teams within two games between 2nd and 11th. My point doesn’t change a single bit. Good catch though! You got me! Ha ha. 🙄 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Yeah, I worry about a let down after the short turnaround...Especially with our youth... I thought we showed a lot too...And I think those first 4 games after we finish the non-conference schedule (@Nebraska, OSU at home, @Rutgers, and Minnesota at home) can put us in good position when we hit the rough part of our schedule... I think the first part of the 2024 B1G schedule is very dangerous for IU. The Huskers have back to back wins against MIch St and Ks St. Also, we never play well against Rutgers at the RAC and have lost four straight there. Plus they’ll be coming off back to back B1G road games and may be desperate. Don’t expect IU to be road favorites in either game. We could easily drop two of the next three B1G games (not saying we definitely will) and that’s assuming we take care of business at home against a very talented, but young OSU squad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said: I think the first part of the 2024 B1G schedule is very dangerous for IU. The Huskers have back to back wins against MIch St and Ks St. Also, we never play well against Rutgers at the RAC and have lost four straight there. Plus they’ll be coming off back to back B1G road games and may be desperate. Don’t expect IU to be road favorites in either game. We could easily drop two of the next three B1G games (not saying we definitely will) and that’s assuming we take care of business at home against a very talented, but young OSU squad. That's what makes it fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUProfessor Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 (edited) It occurred to me this morning that while not a perfect analogy, you can draw some parallels between IU basketball under Woodson and Michigan football under Harbaugh. Both starred at their schools under legendary coaches, went on to respectable professional careers, and then had some level of success coaching professionally, before returning home to try to revive their alma maters. Both had some immediate success turning things around, but fell short of the desired goals. Then things started to slip. It took Harbaugh a few more years, and almost losing his job after a disastrous COVID year, to take a long look in the mirror, but then he changed schemes, assistants, culture, etc. I'm not sure if Woodson is at a similar point yet, but it certainly appears that things aren't going as planned, and IU is reaching a critical juncture under his leadership. Will he be willing to holistically reevaluate what's working here and what isn't, and adjust accordingly? Three years ago today, only a fool would have thought that Michigan football would go 40-3 over the next three years and win a national championship (Connor Stallions or not). IU certainly could have the same sort of turn around under Woodson, but it'll take a lot of hard work, and some real introspection. Edited January 10 by IUProfessor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 4 minutes ago, IUProfessor said: It occurred to me this morning that while not a perfect analogy, you can draw some parallels between IU basketball under Woodson and Michigan football under Harbaugh. Both starred at their schools under legendary coaches, went on to respectable professional careers, and then had some level of success coaching professionally, before returning home to try to revive their alma maters. Both had some immediate success turning things around, but didn't immediately reach their desired goals. Then things started to slip. It took Harbaugh a few more years, and almost losing his job after a disastrous COVID year to take a long look in the mirror, but then he changed schemes, assistants, culture, etc. I'm not sure if Woodson is at a similar point yet, but it certainly appears that things aren't going as planned, and IU is reaching a critical juncture under his leadership. Will he be willing to holistically reevaluate what's working here and what isn't, and adjust accordingly? Three years ago today, only a fool would have thought that Michigan football would go 40-3 over the next three years and win a national championship (Connor Stallions or not). IU certainly could have the same sort of turn around under Woodson, but it'll take a lot of hard work, and some introspection. The biggest difference is Harbaugh is younger. So Woodson’s long look in the mirror needs to happen this morning rather than in a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 13 minutes ago, IUProfessor said: It occurred to me this morning that while not a perfect analogy, you can draw some parallels between IU basketball under Woodson and Michigan football under Harbaugh. Both starred at their schools under legendary coaches, went on to respectable professional careers, and then had some level of success coaching professionally, before returning home to try to revive their alma maters. Both had some immediate success turning things around, but didn't immediately reach their desired goals. Then things started to slip. It took Harbaugh a few more years, and almost losing his job after a disastrous COVID year to take a long look in the mirror, but then he changed schemes, assistants, culture, etc. I'm not sure if Woodson is at a similar point yet, but it certainly appears that things aren't going as planned, and IU is reaching a critical juncture under his leadership. Will he be willing to holistically reevaluate what's working here and what isn't, and adjust accordingly? Three years ago today, only a fool would have thought that Michigan football would go 40-3 over the next three years and win a national championship (Connor Stallions or not). IU certainly could have the same sort of turn around under Woodson, but it'll take a lot of hard work, and some introspection. Comparing the track record of Jim Harbaugh before Michigan and Mike Woodson before Indiana is comically different. Harbaugh didn't have "some success" - Harbaugh had established himself as one of the best coaches at any level of football from his results on the field at both levels. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUProfessor Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 (edited) 11 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Comparing the track record of Jim Harbaugh before Michigan and Mike Woodson before Indiana is comically different. Harbaugh didn't have "some success" - Harbaugh had established himself as one of the best coaches at any level of football from his results on the field at both levels. For sure. He also had prior success in college at the P5 level. Like I said, not a perfect analogy. Still, I think the broader point remains. Woodson has proven to be a good enough recruiter he could still turn this around (rather quickly) if he seriously reflects on the shortcomings in his scheme, roster construction, etc. thus far. Is he willing to do so - that is the question. Edited January 10 by IUProfessor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 12 minutes ago, KoB2011 said: Comparing the track record of Jim Harbaugh before Michigan and Mike Woodson before Indiana is comically different. Harbaugh didn't have "some success" - Harbaugh had established himself as one of the best coaches at any level of football from his results on the field at both levels. Yes, which means that there was reason based on past performance that Harbaugh would get it right eventually. That isn't true for Woodson. I would also add that Harbaugh's early success at UM was better than Woodson's at IU. I doubt that during the rough times Harbaugh was posting pictures of himself sitting around drinking wine and smoking cigars with his buddies after a loss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 43 minutes ago, IUProfessor said: For sure. He also had prior success in college at the P5 level. Like I said, not a perfect analogy. Still, I think the broader point remains. Woodson has proven to be a good enough recruiter he could still turn this around (rather quickly) if he seriously reflects on the shortcomings in his scheme, roster construction, etc. thus far. Is he willing to do so - that is the question. I mean yes, Woodson can change his approach. The question is why would we think he will? I've not seen anything to say he will and he seems combative when he is questioned on his approach to things. If you go back and read about why he was fired from the Knicks, it is jarring that some of the issues are very similar to what we have now. Harbaugh had shown he would find a way to be successful no matter where he was. The "not good enough" that Harbaugh was facing was comparatively better than what we've gotten out of Woodson right from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
go_iu_bb Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 One of the concerns from some people when Woodson was hired was if he would listen to advice from others who knew the college game. It had been reported that he could be very stubborn and ignore assistant coaches. Whether the assistant coaches are telling him that they should do things differently and he's ignoring them, I don't know. What is clear is that the concern that he might be too stubborn to adapt to the college game seems pretty legitimate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, KoB2011 said: I mean yes, Woodson can change his approach. The question is why would we think he will? I've not seen anything to say he will and he seems combative when he is questioned on his approach to things. If you go back and read about why he was fired from the Knicks, it is jarring that some of the issues are very similar to what we have now. Yeah, the good and the bad: Behind a newfound commitment to spreading the floor, swinging the ball around the perimeter, running lots of pick-and-rolls, hunting open 3-pointers and giving Anthony loads of room to operate, the Knicks fielded the third-most potent offense in the league. They rode a hail of long-balls and Felton-to-Chandler lob dunks to a 54-28 record that earned the franchise's first Atlantic Division title in 19 years and the No. 2 seed in the East. New York beat the Boston Celtics to advance to the second round of the playoffs for the first time since 2000 before falling to the Indiana Pacers in the Eastern Conference semifinals. Again, Woodson was rewarded with an extension, this time running through the end of the 2014-15 season. Woodson began the season with the 'Melo-at-the-four, two-point-guard look that was so successful in 2012-13, notching an opening night win over the Milwaukee Bucks. He quickly abandoned it, though, inserting Bargnani in the starting lineup for Game 2 against the Chicago Bulls, which the Knicks lost on a game-winning floater by Derrick Rose. Much as he had throughout the Knicks' postseason loss to the Pacers, when given enough healthy fours and fives to do it, Woodson insisted on using "big" lineups featuring heavy doses of Bargnani and Stoudemire. Such lineups were roundly trounced by the opposition, largely due to their inability to get stops or secure rebounds on the defensive end. Following a nationally televised blowout by Kidd's Nets, Chandler bristled at Woodson's switch-heavy defensive schemes, and said during his season-ending interview that the Knicks needed to "alter a lot of stuff ... offensively and defensively, honestly." In his exit interview, Stoudemire said "there was times that we didn’t totally buy into" Woodson's coaching on either end of the floor. https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/mike-woodson-s-firing-ends-one-strange--tumultuous-era-for-the-knicks--and-begins-another-one-190730838.html?a20=1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted January 10 Report Share Posted January 10 14 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Yeah, the good and the bad: Behind a newfound commitment to spreading the floor, swinging the ball around the perimeter, running lots of pick-and-rolls, hunting open 3-pointers and giving Anthony loads of room to operate, the Knicks fielded the third-most potent offense in the league. They rode a hail of long-balls and Felton-to-Chandler lob dunks to a 54-28 record that earned the franchise's first Atlantic Division title in 19 years and the No. 2 seed in the East. New York beat the Boston Celtics to advance to the second round of the playoffs for the first time since 2000 before falling to the Indiana Pacers in the Eastern Conference semifinals. Again, Woodson was rewarded with an extension, this time running through the end of the 2014-15 season. Woodson began the season with the 'Melo-at-the-four, two-point-guard look that was so successful in 2012-13, notching an opening night win over the Milwaukee Bucks. He quickly abandoned it, though, inserting Bargnani in the starting lineup for Game 2 against the Chicago Bulls, which the Knicks lost on a game-winning floater by Derrick Rose. Much as he had throughout the Knicks' postseason loss to the Pacers, when given enough healthy fours and fives to do it, Woodson insisted on using "big" lineups featuring heavy doses of Bargnani and Stoudemire. Such lineups were roundly trounced by the opposition, largely due to their inability to get stops or secure rebounds on the defensive end. Following a nationally televised blowout by Kidd's Nets, Chandler bristled at Woodson's switch-heavy defensive schemes, and said during his season-ending interview that the Knicks needed to "alter a lot of stuff ... offensively and defensively, honestly." In his exit interview, Stoudemire said "there was times that we didn’t totally buy into" Woodson's coaching on either end of the floor. https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/mike-woodson-s-firing-ends-one-strange--tumultuous-era-for-the-knicks--and-begins-another-one-190730838.html?a20=1 “You know I’m not going to address that. The players just have to play better and execute. You look at last year and we did it. I just gotta get em over the hump.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 19 Report Share Posted January 19 (edited) In Defense of Mike Woodson: Why the IU coach isn't going anywhere and why he shouldn't Indiana head coach Mike Woodson, in his third season at the helm, has led the Hoosiers to a 56-32 record. Associated Press Indiana head coach Mike Woodson watches as his team plays against Nebraska during the first half of an NCAA college basketball game Wednesday, Jan. 3, 2024, in Lincoln, Neb. Nebraska defeated Indiana 86-70. Associated Press Indiana head coach Mike Woodson looks on during the first half of an NCAA college basketball game against Purdue, Tuesday, Jan. 16, 2024, in Bloomington, Ind. Associated Press It has not been a good January for Indiana basketball. First came the Hoosiers’ 86-70 loss to a Nebraska team they had owned in recent years. Then there was yet another loss to Rutgers, a team the Hoosiers can’t seem to beat away from Assembly Hall. The coup de grâce was Tuesday, when IU suffered an 87-66 loss against rival Purdue, the biggest margin of victory for the Boilermakers in Bloomington since 1934. The defeat to the Boilers left Indiana with a 12-6 record, a 4-3 mark in Big Ten play and a rapidly narrowing path to NCAA Tournament contention. And life does not get any easier – the Hoosiers must next travel to Wisconsin to take on the Big Ten-leading Badgers at the Kohl Center tonight. IU has lost 19 in row to Wisconsin on the road and the current iteration of the Cream and Crimson shows little sign of being able to end that streak. Indiana’s recent struggles have brought criticism raining down on coach Mike Woodson. For his first time as leader of the program, Woodson is now hearing calls for his job, insistence the Hoosiers are not where they should be in Year 3 of his tenure and rage at the stagnation of the team after a modestly successful 2022-23 season. To those members of one of the most passionate fanbases in the country who want the Hoosiers to move on from Woodson, there is a simple answer: Take a breath. The coach isn’t going anywhere, nor should he. It’s true, there are plenty of reasons to criticize Woodson’s performance as head coach. His substitution patterns, which often put three or four players from a less-than-effective IU bench on the court at the same time, have not worked and have cost the Hoosiers early leads a couple of times this season. More broadly, Woodson made a mistake in not getting another guard in the transfer portal this offseason. IU has a roster spot open and injuries to sixth-year senior Xavier Johnson and freshman Jakai Newton have torpedoed the Hoosiers’ backcourt depth, a reality on full display against Purdue, when the Boilermakers’ three-guard rotation helped snuff out IU’s second-half comeback attempt. But the reasons to keep Woodson around for a while longer are both logical and practical. Logically, Woodson has earned more time. He took over a team that had spent four years wandering in the wilderness under failed coach Archie Miller and took it to the NCAA Tournament in his first season. In his second season, the Hoosiers started 7-0, then suffered injuries to an honorable mention All-Big Ten guard (Johnson) and an honorable mention All-Big Ten forward (Race Thompson) around the same time. Woodson re-tooled on the fly, helped freshman point guard Jalen Hood-Schifino get confident running the show and led IU to a No. 4 NCAA Tournament seed, its highest since 2016, plus a pair of wins over the otherwise-dominant Boilermakers. The step back this season does not erase the success of the last two years. During his tenure, Woodson’s recruiting and development have been excellent. He started out by convincing Trayce Jackson-Davis to return to IU in one two-hour conversation and then helped him develop into one of the best players in Hoosiers history. Under his tutelage, Hood-Schifino, Malik Reneau, Kel’el Ware and Mackenzie Mgbako, among others, have improved immensely. He has brought six five-star recruits into the program in four recruiting cycles and consistently has IU in contention for the type of talent to which Miller only rarely got close. Even the issue with the guards this year is relatively explicable. Woodson returned a pair of veteran starters in the backcourt – Johnson and Trey Galloway – and had talented freshman backups at both spots in Gabe Cupps and Newton. As a result, he couldn’t promise much playing time to guards in the portal, making recruiting difficult. As they did last season, injuries have undercut Woodson’s team-building strategy. Woodson’s overall record as IU’s coach (56-32) – not to mention his track record of previous success with two NBA franchises – means he deserves the benefit of the doubt and time to build in Bloomington. But the fanbase knows all that and many still want Woodson gone. The problem the coach has run into is that of Backup Quarterback Syndrome. Every starting signal-caller knows the backup QB is the most popular player in town. For IU fans, the backup quarterback is Florida Atlantic coach Dusty May, who led the upstart Owls to the Final Four last season. May, 42, happens to be an IU graduate and the fans clamoring to fire Woodson are dreaming of bringing him back to his alma mater. This is where the practical reasons to keep Woodson come in. Indiana has hired five coaches since 2000. The first four of those coaches have been fired. Firing the fifth, too, after just three seasons at the helm, would only bolster IU’s reputation for an itchy trigger finger, the exact type of reputation that could scare off a rising star such as May. Far better to give Woodson at least the four years Miller received and maybe even a fifth, to ensure the coach has every opportunity to find success. IU athletic director Scott Dolson almost certainly feels the same way; there is virtual certainty Woodson will be back next season. With that in mind, Indiana fans should simply sit back and relax. Enjoy every monster Ware dunk, every wily Reneau move on the post. Then think of five-star signee Liam McNeeley raining 3s off of passes from the transfer point guard Woodson will bring in this offseason. Don’t listen to Chicken Little; the sky is not falling yet. Dylan Sinn covers Notre Dame, Indiana and Purdue for The Journal Gazette. He can be reached at dsinn@jg.net. Dylan Sinn covers Notre Dame, Indiana and Purdue for The Journal Gazette. He can be reached at dsinn@jg.net. Market Data by TradingView Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Instagram Vimeo Sections Local News Sports Living Business Opinion Multimedia Online Features Services Edited January 19 by Steubenhoosier 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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