Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, Drroogh said:

I’ll say it again, reading this board I start feeling like a dead horse!

Amen and in my older age I just can't stand all of the negativity that is on here.

Edited December 16, 2023 by IU Scott

[13th&Jackson]

This is a fairly balanced assessment of the current situation from The Athletic. No chance Woodson’s on the hot seat, but people are noticing the mixed results. 

Is it time for Indiana to consider a coaching change? Woodson’s in his third season, and his past two teams never developed to their potential and this team is struggling. – Donnie H.

Brian: Isn’t it always time for Indiana to consider a coaching change? Like, isn’t that the operating principle of Indiana basketball since the turn of the century? Hoosiers fans need food, water, air, shelter and a prospective candidates list to survive.

Anyway, they gave their head men’s coach a $1 million per year raise in — checks notes — August! So that’s $4.2 million a year, reportedly, through 2027. And unless something changed from the original contract Woodson signed with the school, his buyout before April 1, 2025 is 100 percent of the money left on his deal. Also, Indiana has made two straight NCAA Tournament appearances and won a game in the event last spring. Meanwhile, Kel’El Ware went from completely lost at Oregon to very much again an NBA prospect with some development by this coaching staff. You make quick changes when you’re Louisville or DePaul and the product is among the worst in the country and there are few signs of competency to fix it. This is not that.

I understand the angst. As of Wednesday morning, Indiana has attempted the second-fewest 3-pointers in the country (114) and is only making 27.2 percent of those, which, whoo boy. Stylistically, Woodson’s current scheme cuts against every accepted tenet of efficient modern offensive basketball. And the Hoosiers aren’t defending at a good enough level — good enough, never mind elite — to ignore that. All of this lies at Woodson’s feet. My guess is the price tag on a firing and the lack of utter bottoming-out earns him at least another year. But it’s Indiana, so I could be wrong by the time the Kansas game ends.

Dana: At some point, I believe exhaling would help. If you count the Dan Dakich temp job (and let’s), Mike Woodson is Indiana’s sixth coach in 17 years, and third in six. That’s, um, a lot of turnover in a sport where quick fixes are rare.

I am not arguing that the Indiana product is not currently ideal. Along with the aforementioned statistics from Brian, there are the results — the Hoosiers got tossed by UConn and Auburn, teams they expect to be competitive with and/or beat. But when Woodson first was hired, people thought he couldn’t recruit. He just grabbed Liam McNeeley, a consensus five-star over, among others, Kansas. That’s three five-stars in as many years. Of course one could argue the counterpoint — THEN HE CAN’T COACH. OK, fine.

But the Hoosiers have made the tournament in each of his seasons, which is more than Archie Miller could say and while perhaps folks would like to get into the Dusty May lottery, a little patience might be worth considering.

https://theathletic.com/5135720/2023/12/15/mike-woodson-indiana-big-east-college-basketball-mailbag/?amp=1

[IU Scott]

3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

This is a fairly balanced assessment of the current situation from The Athletic. No chance Woodson’s on the hot seat, but people are noticing the mixed results. 

Is it time for Indiana to consider a coaching change? Woodson’s in his third season, and his past two teams never developed to their potential and this team is struggling. – Donnie H.

Brian: Isn’t it always time for Indiana to consider a coaching change? Like, isn’t that the operating principle of Indiana basketball since the turn of the century? Hoosiers fans need food, water, air, shelter and a prospective candidates list to survive.

Anyway, they gave their head men’s coach a $1 million per year raise in — checks notes — August! So that’s $4.2 million a year, reportedly, through 2027. And unless something changed from the original contract Woodson signed with the school, his buyout before April 1, 2025 is 100 percent of the money left on his deal. Also, Indiana has made two straight NCAA Tournament appearances and won a game in the event last spring. Meanwhile, Kel’El Ware went from completely lost at Oregon to very much again an NBA prospect with some development by this coaching staff. You make quick changes when you’re Louisville or DePaul and the product is among the worst in the country and there are few signs of competency to fix it. This is not that.

I understand the angst. As of Wednesday morning, Indiana has attempted the second-fewest 3-pointers in the country (114) and is only making 27.2 percent of those, which, whoo boy. Stylistically, Woodson’s current scheme cuts against every accepted tenet of efficient modern offensive basketball. And the Hoosiers aren’t defending at a good enough level — good enough, never mind elite — to ignore that. All of this lies at Woodson’s feet. My guess is the price tag on a firing and the lack of utter bottoming-out earns him at least another year. But it’s Indiana, so I could be wrong by the time the Kansas game ends.

Dana: At some point, I believe exhaling would help. If you count the Dan Dakich temp job (and let’s), Mike Woodson is Indiana’s sixth coach in 17 years, and third in six. That’s, um, a lot of turnover in a sport where quick fixes are rare.

I am not arguing that the Indiana product is not currently ideal. Along with the aforementioned statistics from Brian, there are the results — the Hoosiers got tossed by UConn and Auburn, teams they expect to be competitive with and/or beat. But when Woodson first was hired, people thought he couldn’t recruit. He just grabbed Liam McNeeley, a consensus five-star over, among others, Kansas. That’s three five-stars in as many years. Of course one could argue the counterpoint — THEN HE CAN’T COACH. OK, fine.

But the Hoosiers have made the tournament in each of his seasons, which is more than Archie Miller could say and while perhaps folks would like to get into the Dusty May lottery, a little patience might be worth considering.

https://theathletic.com/5135720/2023/12/15/mike-woodson-indiana-big-east-college-basketball-mailbag/?amp=1

Fans like that kills this fan base. Outside people think we are lunatics and I would agree somewhat 

[13th&Jackson]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Fans like that kills this fan base. Outside people think we are lunatics and I would agree somewhat 

Yeah, I was ignoring the fan’s question but I thought the answers were a fairly good assessment of where the program currently stands. 

[Indykev]

2 hours ago, IUJoe said:

I work in a field (taxes) that people bitch about more than this board bitches about Mike Woodson, three point shooting, recruiting, and the brand of our uniforms combined.  A lot of people think they know a lot about taxes.  They don’t.  And there are many, many subjects one could unfortunately say that about, most of which are much less complex than physics.

Do we make enough 3's to matter? Do we shoot enough 3's to matter? Has CMW in 3 years fix either issue? This is not taxes. Even us dumb hillbillies can see the issue.

[KoB2011]

21 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Look buddy. Ever since last weekend when I said the EI comment (which seems true) you've been on a rampage this week ( at least 8-9 references) to prove how right you are. All in the name of discussion? Discussion...check Websters...the exchange of ideas....yet every single discussion you've been in it's with this passive aggressive approach of telling me or others why you seem to be right and others are wrong. Now my guess in the response to this is you'll say I do the same as do others....

How about this? You might be right....does that give you solace? You might be wrong? Does that give me solace? Of course not. Being right in life is never the end goal....and especially on a message board when I'm assuming the common trait amongst us all is our love of IU.

Just my two cents. Chill it out. You've been arguing with what seems like yourself for a week. See how the season plays. Go from there but please spare the I want more from IU talk.....

 

 

Again man, get over yourself. While that was a dumb comment that’s not the issue. @IUFLA is tagging me in conversations I’m not part of and making homoerotic “jabs”, do you want to direct some of your emotional intelligence feedback towards him?

Do you think maybe the issue is we got embarrassed last weekend? Does that timeline make a little more sense than the comment you made being some big turning point in the discourse here?

Yes, I would love a discussion and the exchange of ideas. Saying “see how the season plays out” isn’t having a discussion, it’s telling people to shut up about the issues we are seeing. I enjoy discussing Xs and Os and analytics, I am far from unique in that on this board.

If you don’t enjoy talking about Xs and Os, analytics, areas for improvements, etc then simply don’t talk about them. You’re not discussing though by telling everyone to let the season play. It’s the message board equivalent of walking up to a group of people talking about something and rather than participating, you tell them to stop talking about it.

I’ve probably been the most vocal the past week about the behavior but I’m not the only one annoyed by it. It’s incredibly transparent when you guys didn’t tell anyone to wait until after the season when there were lots of good things being said between Louisville and Auburn. 

[Indykev]

20 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Fans like that kills this fan base. Outside people think we are lunatics and I would agree somewhat 

No one here is saying fire Woodson. Just fix the damn issue that has smacked us in our face for 3 years.

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, Indykev said:

No one here is saying fire Woodson. Just fix the damn issue that has smacked us in our face for 3 years.

The actual discussion of the issues the team has right now has been constructive. 

[13th&Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Indykev said:

No one here is saying fire Woodson. Just fix the damn issue that has smacked us in our face for 3 years.

Right. Last year Butler couldn’t throw it in the ocean. They brought in several transfers. Tonight they shot 15-32 from three, the third time they’ve made more than ten threes. Thad rebuilt the team in one offseason. 

[IUJoe]

5 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Do we make enough 3's to matter? Do we shoot enough 3's to matter? Has CMW in 3 years fix either issue? This is not taxes. Even us dumb hillbillies can see the issue.

I guess we'll find out if we make enough.  Maybe if/when Johnson comes back we'll shoot and hit more.  Maybe Galloway will get his touch back.  Maybe not.  I hope we hit more and improve.  But even us dumb guys who accept mediocrity know the season is far from over.

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

No one would want him fired for his tactics, you get that right? The concern is the tactics won’t lead to the wins and losses being in the right place.

I can’t imagine someone getting fired without talking about the “why” behind why the results aren’t good enough. Can you?

You actually say that frequently. It’s a repeated point you make despite it being a logical fallacy.

I don’t really care if folks agree with me. I am currently annoyed that you and a few others want to stifle discussion on a message board. I actually like when folks disagree with me and explain their position so I can learn from them.

You absolutely tell people how to be a fan on a regular basis. I completely agree we don’t watch the game the same and that’s fine, I just don’t tell you that you are wrong for not wanting to go deeper than the final score like you tell me. I think it’s great you enjoy just watching the game and not worrying about the why behind the results, that’s just not how I watch. Talking and thinking about the why is a really fun distraction for me from a stressful job and raising three kids 8 and under. 

You can think what you want, but I have one question...

What is the end game of the "why" you're always trying to validate? Do you honestly think Mike Woodson is going to look at this board and change his philosophy on THIS team (and yes, it's gonna change from year to year)?

He's stated MANY times he's going to use the 2 superior inside players he has to his advantage. Isn't that the smart thing to do? Go to your strengths?

Then of course, the "roster construction" question comes... Go back and look at the Transfer Portal 2023 thread... We were in on some... Actually got the one of the higher rated portal guys (Ware)... It's really a moot point this season anyway... We have what we have and it's Woody's job to maximize what really is a good amount of talent...

You talk about "standards." When Coach Woodson got here, we hadn't been the an NCAA tournament in 6 years... 6 years...So to me, getting there is "the standard" and he's met that (although you derided it in another thread)... Woody's said the "goals" are Big 10 and National Championships... Different from the standard... 

So you can talk about it all you want, but to me it's screaming at the sky... We're 9 games in, 7-2, 2-0 in the Big Ten...

There's not a thing wrong with that at this point... 

 

[KoB2011]

6 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

You can think what you want, but I have one question...

What is the end game of the "why" you're always trying to validate? Do you honestly think Mike Woodson is going to look at this board and change his philosophy on THIS team (and yes, it's gonna change from year to year)?

He's stated MANY times he's going to use the 2 superior inside players he has to his advantage. Isn't that the smart thing to do? Go to your strengths?

Then of course, the "roster construction" question comes... Go back and look at the Transfer Portal 2023 thread... We were in on some... Actually got the one of the higher rated portal guys (Ware)... It's really a moot point this season anyway... We have what we have and it's Woody's job to maximize what really is a good amount of talent...

You talk about "standards." When Coach Woodson got here, we hadn't been the an NCAA tournament in 6 years... 6 years...So to me, getting there is "the standard" and he's met that (although you derided it in another thread)... Woody's said the "goals" are Big 10 and National Championships... Different from the standard... 

So you can talk about it all you want, but to me it's screaming at the sky... We're 9 games in, 7-2, 2-0 in the Big Ten...

There's not a thing wrong with that at this point... 

 

Of course I don’t think Mike Woodson is going to change anything based on a message board. Do you think more than like 1% of people on here believe that?

I enjoy discussing basketball, particularly IU basketball. I enjoy Xs and Os and analytics, talking about them is an enjoyable distraction for me from a busy and stressful job and having three little kids. Obviously it’s more fun as a fan when the team is on top, but my enjoyment of talking about those things doesn’t really change based on that.

I also love to play golf. I’m not a scratch golfer but I love the grind of trying to get better, I love the strategy, all of that aspect of it. Some people love to play golf because of the social aspect - neither of us is right and neither of us is wrong. I don’t tell guys who like to get drunk with their buddies and take 20 mulligans they’re wrong for how they enjoy it, it’s just not how I enjoy it.

You’re not wrong because you don’t want to talk about Xs and Os, analytics, what areas the team can improve, etc. you’re not wrong because you’d rather talk about who you think is going to guard each other in a future matchup. But don’t tell me I’m wrong because I do like those things. I’ve never seen anyone go into one of your pre game threads and tell you not to talk about who is going to guard each other because we will see for ourselves when it tips off, and I’m sure you’re not making those posts because you think Mike Woodson is going to read them and implement what he sees you post. 

[IU Scott]

49 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Again man, get over yourself. While that was a dumb comment that’s not the issue. @IUFLA is tagging me in conversations I’m not part of and making homoerotic “jabs”, do you want to direct some of your emotional intelligence feedback towards him?

Do you think maybe the issue is we got embarrassed last weekend? Does that timeline make a little more sense than the comment you made being some big turning point in the discourse here?

Yes, I would love a discussion and the exchange of ideas. Saying “see how the season plays out” isn’t having a discussion, it’s telling people to shut up about the issues we are seeing. I enjoy discussing Xs and Os and analytics, I am far from unique in that on this board.

If you don’t enjoy talking about Xs and Os, analytics, areas for improvements, etc then simply don’t talk about them. You’re not discussing though by telling everyone to let the season play. It’s the message board equivalent of walking up to a group of people talking about something and rather than participating, you tell them to stop talking about it.

I’ve probably been the most vocal the past week about the behavior but I’m not the only one annoyed by it. It’s incredibly transparent when you guys didn’t tell anyone to wait until after the season when there were lots of good things being said between Louisville and Auburn. 

The problem are that you  guys are still bitching about the same things that happened a week ago. I get it during and right after the game but the negativity lasting a whole week just gets old.

Edited December 16, 2023 by IU Scott

[IU Scott]

37 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Right. Last year Butler couldn’t throw it in the ocean. They brought in several transfers. Tonight they shot 15-32 from three, the third time they’ve made more than ten threes. Thad rebuilt the team in one offseason. 

To me the lack of good 3 point shooting has to do with how we get those shots and not just the players abilities. We only look to shoot after it goes inside instead of trying to get players open for the good looks.

[13th&Jackson]

Just now, IU Scott said:

To me the lack of good 3 point shooting has to do with how we get those shots and not just the players abilities. We only look to shoot after it goes inside instead of trying to get players open for the good looks.

Correct. Butler plays uptempo and moves the ball quickly, but they have personnel to play that way

[Seeking6]

7 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

To me the lack of good 3 point shooting has to do with how we get those shots and not just the players abilities. We only look to shoot after it goes inside instead of trying to get players open for the good looks.

Now the really funny thing (if it happens) is if we come out guns a blazing tomorrow and the same crew says why didn't we do that before? Happens every year and I get it. It's been a frustrating 20+ year ride but Lord the state of the program posts after every game or loss is exhausting. 

We all know what we are. Been an average program for 20+ years with the exception of 4-5 seasons. Funny part is the last two have been more exciting vs the previous 5. That I can get behind.

[5fouls]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Amen and in my older age I just can't stand all of the negativity that is on here.

Hate to break it to you Scott, but you're being negative about the negativity.  

[Drroogh]

2 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Of course I don’t think Mike Woodson is going to change anything based on a message board. Do you think more than like 1% of people on here believe that?

I enjoy discussing basketball, particularly IU basketball. I enjoy Xs and Os and analytics, talking about them is an enjoyable distraction for me from a busy and stressful job and having three little kids. Obviously it’s more fun as a fan when the team is on top, but my enjoyment of talking about those things doesn’t really change based on that.

I also love to play golf. I’m not a scratch golfer but I love the grind of trying to get better, I love the strategy, all of that aspect of it. Some people love to play golf because of the social aspect - neither of us is right and neither of us is wrong. I don’t tell guys who like to get drunk with their buddies and take 20 mulligans they’re wrong for how they enjoy it, it’s just not how I enjoy it.

You’re not wrong because you don’t want to talk about Xs and Os, analytics, what areas the team can improve, etc. you’re not wrong because you’d rather talk about who you think is going to guard each other in a future matchup. But don’t tell me I’m wrong because I do like those things. I’ve never seen anyone go into one of your pre game threads and tell you not to talk about who is going to guard each other because we will see for ourselves when it tips off, and I’m sure you’re not making those posts because you think Mike Woodson is going to read them and implement what he sees you post. 

Wow, is all I want to say but if you think you are the only one that has had to deal with life, let me tell you!!!!

[Joe_Hoopsier]

5 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Hate to break it to you Scott, but you're being negative about the negativity.  

Are you positive of that?

[kyhoosier29]

12 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Look buddy. Ever since last weekend when I said the EI comment (which seems true) you've been on a rampage this week ( at least 8-9 references) to prove how right you are. All in the name of discussion? Discussion...check Websters...the exchange of ideas....yet every single discussion you've been in it's with this passive aggressive approach of telling me or others why you seem to be right and others are wrong. Now my guess in the response to this is you'll say I do the same as do others....

How about this? You might be right....does that give you solace? You might be wrong? Does that give me solace? Of course not. Being right in life is never the end goal....and especially on a message board when I'm assuming the common trait amongst us all is our love of IU.

Just my two cents. Chill it out. You've been arguing with what seems like yourself for a week. See how the season plays. Go from there but please spare the I want more from IU talk.....

 

 

Wow ….. again, don’t discuss, just see how the season plays out. Hear yourself? Don’t chime in if you don’t want to be part of the discussion. Is that too difficult for some of you? Just remove yourself from the conversation. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by kyhoosier29

[5fouls]

12 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

homoerotic “jabs”

HSN = Porn site. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by 5fouls

[NotIThatLives]

16 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Woody: "we just gotta make what we take."

BTW, Kansas is #250 in made 3s...Arizona is #232

And the savior Caleb Love is shooting to the stars right now at a whooping 30% last I checked.  

[Indykev]

12 hours ago, IU Scott said:

The problem are that you  guys are still bitching about the same things that happened a week ago. I get it during and right after the game but the negativity lasting a whole week just gets old.

Its because the issue isnt going away after last week or any week with the offense we run, the players we have and a coach saying stop asking the question because we take enough 3's enough though we rank 361 out of 362. THAT is what is getting old.

[Indykev]

12 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Now the really funny thing (if it happens) is if we come out guns a blazing tomorrow and the same crew says why didn't we do that before? Happens every year and I get it. It's been a frustrating 20+ year ride but Lord the state of the program posts after every game or loss is exhausting. 

We all know what we are. Been an average program for 20+ years with the exception of 4-5 seasons. Funny part is the last two have been more exciting vs the previous 5. That I can get behind.

Love you man but I wont except WHAT WE ARE. Maybe thats the issue with a few of you that think we are just bitching to bitch. You have excepted we will always finish in the middle of the Big Ten, maybe play a weekend or 2 in the big dance. Not good enough for me. So I will be here win or lose wanting better.

[NotIThatLives]

21 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Love you man but I wont except WHAT WE ARE. Maybe thats the issue with a few of you that think we are just bitching to bitch. You have excepted we will always finish in the middle of the Big Ten, maybe play a weekend or 2 in the big dance. Not good enough for me. So I will be here win or lose wanting better.

Yeah.  Our ad and head coach have stated very publicly the expectations are B1G and national Champs.