Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[rico]

27 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don't necessarily agree. I don't think it's fair to assume an offense that does a better job of generating open looks and inspiring confidence will shoot the same percentage. I actually think assuming it would result in the same percentage is a major discredit to some of the great coaches in basketball. 

Malik needs less turnovers and more assists.  I can hear Fisch, "...into Reaneau, the double team comes...Malik kicks it out to Mgbako...for 33333333.....YES!!!!!!!!!!"

[5fouls]

35 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don't necessarily agree. I don't think it's fair to assume an offense that does a better job of generating open looks and inspiring confidence will shoot the same percentage. I actually think assuming it would result in the same percentage is a major discredit to some of the great coaches in basketball. 

36 minutes ago, rico said:

I dunno.  If he kicks out instead of turning it over it opens up the paint for Malik?  Assuming the fellas knock down some those open look 3s.

If Malik makes 65 out of 100 two point shots, that's 130 points (not even counting FTs from and-ones).  

For IU to get 130 points on 100 three-point shots, they would need to make 43.3333333333333 of those shots.

Can this group realistically hit 43.3% of it's 3 pointers even if they were open looks?  That's what is needed to just break even (again, ignoring FTs earned in the paint).

I'm not sure we could hit 43.33% in warmups.

[5fouls]

Your argument is based on the assumption the guy in the paint is shooting 50-55%.

Malik's much higher than that.  The math says take the 65% from 2 when it is available.

[13th&Jackson]

48 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Yup.... say Malik kicks it out 6 extra times per game to an open shooter.

 

What if he kicks it out for three live ball turnovers?   

[Stlboiler23]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

"HE MIGHT TRANSFER!"

I'm not the one swingin' on @Stlboiler23's junk at the drop of a hat... 

[kyhoosier29]

6 hours ago, IUFLA said:

But as I told @kyhoosier29, we HAVE tried to recruit shooters... Some that we've gotten (Bates) haven't worked out... Some, (Gunn) the jury is still out on...

Caleb Love's name was mentioned... He's having a good year at Arizona... The scuttle on here is we had a Zoom meeting with him that didn't go very well... I think sometimes the unwavering tenets Woody lays out (going to class in particular) doesn't resonate well with some kids... And Woody himself is not going to compromise the team and his culture to accommodate just any player...

Again, I like Woody and think he deserves some leeway, but end of the day, it’s not his job to “try”. It’s his job to get it done. So again, we’re in year 3 of the NIL, transfer portal and we haven’t had one guy that could/can get his own shot when we absolutely need one. JHS to some extent, but he wasn’t a lethal perimeter shooter and he was recruited as a combo guard, more-so a PG, not a shooter. 

[kyhoosier29]

1 hour ago, 5fouls said:

Based on what we've seen when they have had open looks, while it may improve slightly, it's not going to get high enough to offset 65%.

So continue to do something that isn’t sustainable nor able to help us win in the long run? I mean, we can’t and will not beat good teams by making less than five threes a game. So… 🤷🏻‍♂️ MR needs to hit open shooters when he’s getting double or triple teamed. This mindset you speak of (if he has it) is detrimental and will not help us win against good teams. He might get his, but we won’t win. 

[Kdug]

44 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Your argument is based on the assumption the guy in the paint is shooting 50-55%.

Malik's much higher than that.  The math says take the 65% from 2 when it is available.

Malik isn’t shooting 65% from 2 when he’s double teamed. He’s shooting 62% on the year, and I’d imagine he’s probably close to 70% when he’s single covered and probably in that 50%-55% range when doubled. Throw in the added turnovers when he’s doubled and it’d be better if he found the open man.

[IUFLA]

29 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Again, I like Woody and think he deserves some leeway, but end of the day, it’s not his job to “try”. It’s his job to get it done. So again, we’re in year 3 of the NIL, transfer portal and we haven’t had one guy that could/can get his own shot when we absolutely need one. JHS to some extent, but he wasn’t a lethal perimeter shooter and he was recruited as a combo guard, more-so a PG, not a shooter. 

Woody's job is to win, period...

But let's get to specifics... We'll start portal... Who has he missed on that we had a realistic shot at? Names... 

[NotIThatLives]

What I haven't seen in this Malik kickout discussion is what I call the beauty and simplicity of ball movement.   Moving the ball one or 2 more times per possession could lead to an even better shot for our struggling shooters or cause that double team to fall apart leading to a scramble and even better shot for Malik or someone.   

Move the ball quicker.  If the shots there, take it.  Too much pass and stand and see.  Malik is good but he's no trayce.  The offense needs to be run as a team.  

Edited December 14, 2023 by NotIThatLives

[Joe_Hoopsier]

5 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I’m trying to stop the drama, I’ve said several times we are just trying to discuss basketball and you (plus a few others) won’t let that happen for some reason.

If I didn’t know better, I’d say you’re a Purdue troll trying to stir up crap on an IU board and getting folks to settle for mediocrity. What else am I supposed to assume based on your posts?

I’ll give you a 4.8 for attempt

.1 for execution. 
back to the bench or you get the hose. 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

4 hours ago, kyhoosier29 said:

We aren’t hitting a high enough percentage because they don’t get a lot of open looks. Maybe if MR was kicking it out when he should we’d be hitting at a higher clip. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Low percentage because we don’t take enough to miss more, isn’t a good formula.

[kyhoosier29]

15 minutes ago, Joe_Hoopsier said:

Low percentage because we don’t take enough to miss more, isn’t a good formula.

We don’t get many open, easy looks from the perimeter. You saw what happened early against Auburn when they left us open. MR needs to kick it out to open shooters when he’s getting double and triple teamed. Bottom line. 

[kyhoosier29]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Woody's job is to win, period...

But let's get to specifics... We'll start portal... Who has he missed on that we had a realistic shot at? Names... 

Yeah, no kidding. And he’s not going to win without sharpshooters.

Knect for sure…. How do you define realistic? If you don’t reach out to a quality shooter then of course you don’t have a realistic chance. There were tons in the portal that went elsewhere. You can do your own research if you want a list. I’m not doing it for you. Again, it’s his job to find shooters that will inevitably give us a better chance to win. If you think he can win in modern day basketball without quality shooters then I want whatever you’re smoking. It ultimately limited us last year, and it’s hurting us this year. Don’t think it’s really debatable. 

[5fouls]

Defense, Rebounding, and Turnovers are much more responsible for some of IU's game results than Malik not passing out of double teams or even our poor 3-point shooting.  

[kyhoosier29]

9 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Defense, Rebounding, and Turnovers are much more responsible for some of IU's game results than Malik not passing out of double teams or even our poor 3-point shooting.  

You realize MR struggles with all of those right? 😂 We can agree to disagree that our lack of 3 point abilities haven’t contributed to our results. 

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Yeah, no kidding. And he’s not going to win without sharpshooters.

Knect for sure…. How do you define realistic? If you don’t reach out to a quality shooter then of course you don’t have a realistic chance. There were tons in the portal that went elsewhere. You can do your own research if you want a list. I’m not doing it for you. Again, it’s his job to find shooters that will inevitably give us a better chance to win. If you think he can win in modern day basketball without quality shooters then I want whatever you’re smoking. It ultimately limited us last year, and it’s hurting us this year. Don’t think it’s really debatable. 

We were on Knecht, and he chose another school... I'm not sure how much more we could have done...I know a lot of people were high on Nick Timberlake... We'll see him sitting on the Kansas bench Saturday... 

I've already done the research... I followed the portal very closely...And I'm sure the coaching staff did their homework as well...

Not every kid is a fit, and Woody says that... He's got criteria for things like defense and chemistry that he's not going to compromise... 

Let's see where the next few months land us before we deem things not debatable.

 

[IUCrazy2]

3 hours ago, Kdug said:

Malik isn’t shooting 65% from 2 when he’s double teamed. He’s shooting 62% on the year, and I’d imagine he’s probably close to 70% when he’s single covered and probably in that 50%-55% range when doubled. Throw in the added turnovers when he’s doubled and it’d be better if he found the open man.

What percentage was he against Michigan, Connecticut, and Auburn?  Maybe add Maryland. Those games are likely to be better indicators of future production than the 5 games against teams that are going to be worse than just about every Big Ten team we will be facing after Kansas and a few more duds.

[Joe_Hoopsier]

50 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

We don’t get many open, easy looks from the perimeter. You saw what happened early against Auburn when they left us open. MR needs to kick it out to open shooters when he’s getting double and triple teamed. Bottom line. 

Zero debate about MR kicking out. ZERO debate. 
If there wasn’t 3, 4 hour practices of nothing but entry passes to MR and Ware, with a demanded 1.5 seconds until a kick out passes then I’ll be disappointed. 
last season there was something that got through to TJD TO KICK IT. What was it? What ever, that has to happen next game! 

[Indykev]

There are 362 teams. I guess Woody thinks we should shoot 100%. Good luck coach going 3 for 12 against KU.

[Hoosier987]

4 minutes ago, Indykev said:

There are 362 teams. I guess Woody thinks we should shoot 100%. Good luck coach going 3 for 12 against KU.

Woody clearly thinks we're the norm and everyone else is the outlier. 

I kid...but yea, I wish CMW wouldn't be so annoyed by the question because it's a very legit question that should be asked.

[Maedhros]

1 minute ago, Indykev said:

There are 362 teams. I guess Woody thinks we should shoot 100%. Good luck coach going 3 for 12 against KU.

There's some real chicken-or-the-egg going on here. Do we shoot so few threes because we know we can't make them? Or do we not make them because we don't incorporate the three into our offensive approach? I'm leaning toward the latter. I know we'd like to have better shooters on the roster, but I don't think our personnel is so lacking that these numbers become justifiable:

And if it's true that in year three our roster is too deficient to expect better, well that itself is an enormous red flag. This isn't a situation that will be rectified by Liam McNeeley alone.

[Indykev]

1 minute ago, Hoosier987 said:

Woody clearly thinks we're the norm and everyone else is the outlier. 

I kid...but yea, I wish CMW wouldn't be so annoyed by the question because it's a very legit question that should be asked.

My follow up would have been, Coach do you watch any modern basketball at all or just old highlight film from your playing days. I watched my first NBA game the other night in 4 years and hell they couldn't get enough 3's shot in one trip.

[Indykev]

4 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

There's some real chicken-or-the-egg going on here. Do we shoot so few threes because we know we can't make them? Or do we not make them because we don't incorporate the three into our offensive approach? I'm leaning toward the latter. I know we'd like to have better shooters on the roster, but I don't think our personnel is so lacking that these numbers become justifiable:

And if it's true that in year three our roster is too deficient to expect better, well that itself is an enormous red flag. This isn't a situation that will be rectified by Liam McNeeley alone.

Woody says we shoot enough because he wants the ball inside. Because no one is hitting jumpers.

[13th&Jackson]

18 minutes ago, Indykev said:

My follow up would have been, Coach do you watch any modern basketball at all or just old highlight film from your playing days. I watched my first NBA game the other night in 4 years and hell they couldn't get enough 3's shot in one trip.

Why would any guards sign on to play this style? Heck, Rhode Island (yes, Archie's team) is making 6 threes per game. By the way, that's 293rd in D1 and almost twice as many as IU. 

Edited December 15, 2023 by 13th&Jackson