Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[IU_Realist]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

Yup. We've heard this before and have had talented shooters under Woodson.

Need to see we have an offense designed for it. 

You can already see it’s not going to change next year.  We will be going through the post with what they are recruiting if we get Queen and Reneau. Two bigs predominantly stuck in the paint.  No play making guards yet.  We had JHS which was a playmaker and hated watching our offense.  Not enough movement.  McNeeley needs to be utilized and ran through like Huerter from Maryland.  Still who is going to get him the ball and shoot from the outside as well.    I was saying this the other day.  Amazes me that IU can’t recruit shooters.  I think it’s guards looking at our offense and going why would I want to go there because it’s not ran for me.  I know if I had a top 150 kid he wouldn’t be going to IU and I am an alumni for gods sake.  I haven’t been thrilled with Woodson since he was hired and don’t think I ever will.  Least amount of IU basketball I have watched in my life.  Watch Purdue more.  Sad state for me as it’s just bad basketball.  I used to post on here a lot and now I barely do.  

Edited December 12, 2023 by IU_Realist

[13th&Jackson]

3 hours ago, IUFLA said:

For those that want IU shooting a higher volume of 3s, it's coming...

You just have to have the right kids taking them... 

OK, so Mike Davis got destroyed for "help is on the way". People said he was openly saying his current players weren't good enough. 

What Davis said was true, if a bit clumsy. What CMW said is also true, but it raises the question as to why we aren't bringing in shooters until year 4. It also implies that what you see with the current team, is what it's probably going to be this year. Does CMW get a pass here when Davis didn't?

"I just think it's going to be a major plus for our program because he really can shoot the basketball, and we don't really have that right now," Woodson said. "So it's something missing that we needed, and we've got to continue to go out and find more guys that can make shots."

That's an admission that, to this point, there has been a failure in recruiting/roster construction. And, let's be honest. We probably wouldn't have the best shooter on the current roster (Mgbako) if his mother hadn't contacted CMW. The coaching staff has admitted that they didn't know him. They obviously had to close the deal, but they weren't recruiting him. He fell into their laps. 

 

“Mackenzie’s deal is kind of unique because the crazy thing is Mackenzie’s mom reached out to coach Woodson with a text,” Hunter said on the Hoosier Hysterics podcast last week.  “And so that’s initially how it got started. We didn’t know him, but just obviously (Mgbako) being from the New Jersey area, and Coach (Woodson) being a Knicks guy, and just the people around. So she actually reached out to coach first and inquired about us recruiting her son.  So that’s initially how it kind of came about.”

[BGleas]

59 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

OK, so Mike Davis got destroyed for "help is on the way". People said he was openly saying his current players weren't good enough. 

What Davis said was true, if a bit clumsy. What CMW said is also true, but it raises the question as to why we aren't bringing in shooters until year 4. It also implies that what you see with the current team, is what it's probably going to be this year. Does CMW get a pass here when Davis didn't?

"I just think it's going to be a major plus for our program because he really can shoot the basketball, and we don't really have that right now," Woodson said. "So it's something missing that we needed, and we've got to continue to go out and find more guys that can make shots."

That's an admission that, to this point, there has been a failure in recruiting/roster construction. And, let's be honest. We probably wouldn't have the best shooter on the current roster (Mgbako) if his mother hadn't contacted CMW. The coaching staff has admitted that they didn't know him. They obviously had to close the deal, but they weren't recruiting him. He fell into their laps. 

 

“Mackenzie’s deal is kind of unique because the crazy thing is Mackenzie’s mom reached out to coach Woodson with a text,” Hunter said on the Hoosier Hysterics podcast last week.  “And so that’s initially how it got started. We didn’t know him, but just obviously (Mgbako) being from the New Jersey area, and Coach (Woodson) being a Knicks guy, and just the people around. So she actually reached out to coach first and inquired about us recruiting her son.  So that’s initially how it kind of came about.”

Honestly, if I was MM reading that quote from Woodson about McNeely I'd be really mad. 

[KoB2011]

I really don't like the McNeely comment from Woodson or the complete lack of answers about what changed after the first four made threes.

[IUFLA]

14 hours ago, BGleas said:

Honestly, if I was MM reading that quote from Woodson about McNeely I'd be really mad. 

 

13 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I really don't like the McNeely comment from Woodson or the complete lack of answers about what changed after the first four made threes.

I read a lot of posts about "mental toughness" in some of the game threads, yet an offhand remark on a radio show that was essentially true "we don't really have (3 point shooting) that right now" might "upset" a kid? We're shooting 28% from 3 as a team, and Mac is shooting 21%... Those are facts...

Mental toughness is not something you turn on just for a game... You either are or you aren't... 

[KoB2011]

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

 

I read a lot of posts about "mental toughness" in some of the game threads, yet an offhand remark on a radio show that was essentially true "we don't really have (3 point shooting) that right now" might "upset" a kid? We're shooting 28% from 3 as a team, and Mac is shooting 21%... Those are facts...

Mental toughness is not something you turn on just for a game... You either are or you aren't... 

help me understand the point you’re making, I’m not sure how it relates to what you quoted from me. 

[IUFLA]

15 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

raises the question as to why we aren't bringing in shooters until year 4.

First year of Woody's tenure we brought in Bates and Kopp, who were both thought of as shooters, no? Plus we had Parker Stewart already on the roster... You can say, "well, they didn't pan out." I'd argue that Kopp did, but it's not like we weren't trying to bring in shooters.

15 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

We probably wouldn't have the best shooter on the current roster (Mgbako) if his mother hadn't contacted CMW. The coaching staff has admitted that they didn't know him. They obviously had to close the deal, but they weren't recruiting him. He fell into their laps. 

I'd say that speaks more to Coach Woodson's reputation than anything... 

[IUFLA]

7 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

help me understand the point you’re making, I’m not sure how it relates to what you quoted from me. 

You and @BGleas worried that Mgbako would be "mad" or "upset" to the point of considering transferring...

A kid who's "mentally tough" isn't going to let a remark on a radio show derail him... He's gonna keep pressing on...

In my opinion, you guys are reaching on this... Woody didn't call anyone out by name, but the numbers I cited do speak for themselves... 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by IUFLA

[KoB2011]

Just now, IUFLA said:

You and @BGleas worried that Mgbako would be "mad" or "upset" to the point of considering transferring...

A kid who's "mentally tough" isn't going to let a remark on a radio show derail him... He's gonna keep pressing on...

In my opinion, you guys are reaching on this... Woody didn't call anyone out by name, but the numbers I cited do speak for themselves... 

 

What exactly are we reaching for? Giving our opinion on a comment that was posted?

I don’t like the Auburn game and the response to it we’ve heard. It was a pathetic effort starting at the top and a bad response.

I also had no problem saying over and over I like what I saw in the second half of Louisville until the Auburn game. 

[13th&Jackson]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

First year of Woody's tenure we brought in Bates and Kopp, who were both thought of as shooters, no? Plus we had Parker Stewart already on the roster... You can say, "well, they didn't pan out." I'd argue that Kopp did, but it's not like we weren't trying to bring in shooters.

I'd say that speaks more to Coach Woodson's reputation than anything... 

Absolutely it speaks to his reputation. I believe that was clear from the quote. 

Just saying that other teams have been successful with  bringing in multiple guards during the offseason and we haven't. Until this statement by CMW, it just doesn't seem that bringing in shooters has been a priority. It was obvious that it was a weakness with Archie's teams. Just surprising that the coaching staff didn't make that more of a focus. 

[02Hoosier]

I don’t really have a problem with what Woodson said. So far this season it’s been true, nobody has been able to reliable make threes. I’d be more concerned if he pretended it wasn’t an issue and acted like it’s not important to bring in more shooters.

[13th&Jackson]

1 minute ago, 02Hoosier said:

I don’t really have a problem with what Woodson said. So far this season it’s been true, nobody has been able to reliable make threes. I’d be more concerned if he pretended it wasn’t an issue and acted like it’s not important to bring in more shooters.

I don't have a problem with it either, other than his observation has been obvious to anyone following the team for the past couple of years. I was just drawing a comparison to Mike Davis, who was destroyed by the media and fan base for making a similar comment during the season. 

One third of the way through the season, it doesn't go over well to say "just wait until next year, we're bringing in skills that we don't currently have"

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

What exactly are we reaching for? Giving our opinion on a comment that was posted?

I think you're looking for things to skewer Woody over...

You can't have it both ways... If you want mentally tough kids, then a remark on a radio program shouldn't even be worried about... He's either mentally tough and takes it for what it's worth (nothing) or he sulks over it and considers transferring... As I said, I've known many mentally tough people, and it's not a switch you turn on and off... You are or you aren't... 

[btownqb]

45 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I don't have a problem with it either, other than his observation has been obvious to anyone following the team for the past couple of years. I was just drawing a comparison to Mike Davis, who was destroyed by the media and fan base for making a similar comment during the season. 

One third of the way through the season, it doesn't go over well to say "just wait until next year, we're bringing in skills that we don't currently have"

I mean .. I wish he would have said Liam could go left, something Mackenzie cannot do. 

[IUFLA]

1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Absolutely it speaks to his reputation. I believe that was clear from the quote. 

Just saying that other teams have been successful with  bringing in multiple guards during the offseason and we haven't. Until this statement by CMW, it just doesn't seem that bringing in shooters has been a priority. It was obvious that it was a weakness with Archie's teams. Just surprising that the coaching staff didn't make that more of a focus. 

But as I told @kyhoosier29, we HAVE tried to recruit shooters... Some that we've gotten (Bates) haven't worked out... Some, (Gunn) the jury is still out on...

Caleb Love's name was mentioned... He's having a good year at Arizona... The scuttle on here is we had a Zoom meeting with him that didn't go very well... I think sometimes the unwavering tenets Woody lays out (going to class in particular) doesn't resonate well with some kids... And Woody himself is not going to compromise the team and his culture to accommodate just any player...

[NotIThatLives]

Iufla, nice post above about not compromising.  Woody has talked very plainly and clearly and his staff has echoed.  If he detects a bad apple or someone that isn't right for the program, he nixes it.  Doesn't matter the talent.  

For all the Caleb love blow harding going on.  Would he have helped?  Sure.  Yall act like he's Dame Lillard.  The guy shot 29.9% from three last year.  He's at 30.0% so far this year.  He too isn't exactly what this team is missing.  Would have helped.  I'm still disappointed in our guard play and depth.  I'd be scouring all of earth,  looking in the international market for anyone to come with some skill and eligibility.   Get them in here by January 8th according to the registrar office.  Let's go.  

[KoB2011]

34 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think you're looking for things to skewer Woody over...

You can't have it both ways... If you want mentally tough kids, then a remark on a radio program shouldn't even be worried about... He's either mentally tough and takes it for what it's worth (nothing) or he sulks over it and considers transferring... As I said, I've known many mentally tough people, and it's not a switch you turn on and off... You are or you aren't... 

Use some of that mental toughness and emotional intelligence and stop assuming people have bad intentions. 

[Kdug]

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

 

I read a lot of posts about "mental toughness" in some of the game threads, yet an offhand remark on a radio show that was essentially true "we don't really have (3 point shooting) that right now" might "upset" a kid? We're shooting 28% from 3 as a team, and Mac is shooting 21%... Those are facts...

Mental toughness is not something you turn on just for a game... You either are or you aren't... 

Agreed all around. I really don’t see how Woodson saying we don’t have a knockdown 3 point shooter so far this year is even controversial. Mack or CJ could turn into that still, but they certainly haven’t to this point. If Mack gets upset that Woodson doesn’t consider being a 21% 3 point shooter a knockdown shooter, then we have bigger issues.

Heck, if anyone could take offense to that it’d be Ware. He’s made as many 3’s as Mack on 17 fewer attempts.

[IUFLA]

19 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Use some of that mental toughness and emotional intelligence and stop assuming people have bad intentions. 

Then what should I assume? You were trying to portray his words in a positive light?

Both you and @BGleas thought it was something he shouldn't have said, right? Why? He didn't call anyone out personally... He made a comment based on our performance so far... And he was right...

Own your words for once rather than playing this BS game of trying to prove you're smarter than everyone else... 

 

[tdhoosier]

4 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

But as I told @kyhoosier29, we HAVE tried to recruit shooters... Some that we've gotten (Bates) haven't worked out... Some, (Gunn) the jury is still out on...

Caleb Love's name was mentioned... He's having a good year at Arizona... The scuttle on here is we had a Zoom meeting with him that didn't go very well... I think sometimes the unwavering tenets Woody lays out (going to class in particular) doesn't resonate well with some kids... And Woody himself is not going to compromise the team and his culture to accommodate just any player...

I'm actually more concerned that shooters have been a priority for this staff, and for some reason, we aren't getting them. ....And the ones that we do get, for some reason aren't developing.
....And if they do develop as good percentage shooter (like Kopp), for some reason they have a very limited role in the offense. 

I'm not advocating that we get rid of Woody. But i kept writing 'for some reason'.....and I think we need to quickly find exactly what that reason is, and address it ASAP. I don't know how else to put it.  You can not win big in today's NCAA with how these rosters have been constructed because they dictate an offensive style that is not effective and lack athleticism on the defensive end. We had 2 NBA draft picks last year. We potentially have 2 NBA guys this year - each matched with a good amount of experience. Typically that is a recipe for success, but *for some reason* it isn't. Even last year's team had a ceiling. If they some how got passed Miami, they'd get crushed in the next round. And that is with one of the best all time Hoosiers on the roster. 

I honestly do think Woody knows this, which is why I want to see him be able to work the program out of this. We've seen Woody change his philosophies mid-season for the better, which is why I think he needs to change the way he's playing now - relinquish that tunnel vision into the post. Move MM around - let him shoot off screens. Play CJ with the starters and get him some confidence. And, for the love of God, do we really need Sparks and Malik on the floor at the same time?

If Woody needs a recruiting tool for these athletic wings, there's no better tool than tape. And if I'm the father of an athletic wing, and i'm watching our first 9 games this year, there's no way I'd want him to go to IU. What we are doing know will dictate what happens in the Spring transfer portal....don't waste it because we need a lot of guard depth. 

 

[BGleas]

I'm not getting into some big back and forth today. Just don't feel like it. 

I'll just say this. My post on MM being upset has more context to it than someone just being upset with that one Woodson quote. 

I have no idea how MM feels. My feeling on this is a "if I was him" feeling. 

The context is consistent with my opinion since the season started that MM isn't being utilized properly. My opinion is that he is a really good shooter that's not necessarily being put in positions offensively to be his most successful.

With my consistent opinion on that as a backdrop, if I was MM I probably wouldn't love those comments from Woodson and might be a little upset or frustrated at the entire package. 

[IUFLA]

6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I'm actually more concerned that shooters have been a priority for this staff, and for some reason, we aren't getting them. ....And the ones that we do get, for some reason aren't developing.
....And if they do develop as good percentage shooter (like Kopp), for some reason they have a very limited role in the offense. 

I'm not advocating that we get rid of Woody. But i kept writing 'for some reason'.....and I think we need to quickly find exactly what that reason is, and address it ASAP. I don't know how else to put it.  You can not win big in today's NCAA with how these rosters have been constructed because they dictate an offensive style that is not effective and lack athleticism on the defensive end. We had 2 NBA draft picks last year. We potentially have 2 NBA guys this year - each matched with a good amount of experience. Typically that is a recipe for success, but *for some reason* it isn't. Even last year's team had a ceiling. If they some how got passed Miami, they'd get crushed in the next round. And that is with one of the best all time Hoosiers on the roster. 

I honestly do think Woody knows this, which is why I want to see him be able to work the program out of this. We've seen Woody change his philosophies mid-season for the better, which is why I think he needs to change the way he's playing now - relinquish that tunnel vision into the post. Move MM around - let him shoot off screens. Play CJ with the starters and get him some confidence. And, for the love of God, do we really need Sparks and Malik on the floor at the same time?

If Woody needs a recruiting tool for these athletic wings, there's no better tool than tape. And if I'm the father of an athletic wing, and i'm watching our first 9 games this year, there's no way I'd want him to go to IU. What we are doing know will dictate what happens in the Spring transfer portal....don't waste it because we need a lot of guard depth. 

 

A lot to digest and agree with some of it...

In the analysis of these teams, both this years and lasts, we keep leaving out the X factor...you say we've paired this years youth with a good experience factor, but beyond Galloway and Walker (not counting X since he's out) who? Sophomores? 

I'll say this, if this team is to have the success we'd all like to see (Big 10 contention and nice tournament run) I think it'll come naturally from the work being done every day in practice and the game experiences, not some drastic change in philosophy... If we do start taking and making more 3s it'll be because, like Trayce did, Reneau starts recognizing and reacting better to double teams... 

[IUFLA]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I'm not getting into some big back and forth today. Just don't feel like it. 

I'll just say this. My post on MM being upset has more context to it than someone just being upset with that one Woodson quote. 

I have no idea how MM feels. My feeling on this is a "if I was him" feeling. 

The context is consistent with my opinion since the season started that MM isn't being utilized properly. My opinion is that he is a really good shooter that's not necessarily being put in positions offensively to be his most successful.

With my consistent opinion on that as a backdrop, if I was MM I probably wouldn't love those comments from Woodson and might be a little upset or frustrated at the entire package. 

So, again... If you were MM, why would you be mad? Woodson didn't invoke your name... He was talking whole team at 28%... Not you specifically...

I'm not for a back and forth either, but I personally don't understand why it was an issue with either of you in the first place... 

[tdhoosier]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

A lot to digest and agree with some of it...

In the analysis of these teams, both this years and lasts, we keep leaving out the X factor...you say we've paired this years youth with a good experience factor, but beyond Galloway and Walker (not counting X since he's out) who? Sophomores? 

I'll say this, if this team is to have the success we'd all like to see (Big 10 contention and nice tournament run) I think it'll come naturally from the work being done every day in practice and the game experiences, not some drastic change in philosophy... If we do start taking and making more 3s it'll be because, like Trayce did, Reneau starts recognizing and reacting better to double teams... 

Genuine question? Do you think he tells Reneau to pass out of double teams? Credit to Reneau, even with double teams he shoots at an awfully high percentage. I think it's easy to settle because Reneau can get that bucket. I think even the announcers settle into this way of thinking too. I remember them saying last weekend: 'Indiana is not going to jump shoot their way back into this', but if we're going to be trading two's for three's that is going to be a long climb, not to mention we'd need to be remarkably efficient in a game we were already behind in.  

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Genuine question? Do you think he tells Reneau to pass out of double teams? Credit to Reneau, even with double teams he shoots at an awfully high percentage. I think it's easy to settle because Reneau can get that bucket. I think even the announcers settle into this way of thinking too. I remember them saying last weekend: 'Indiana is not going to jump shoot their way back into this', but if we're going to be trading two's for three's that is going to be a long climb, not to mention we'd need to be remarkably efficient in a game we were already behind in.  

I don't know for sure, but he certainly taught it and asked TJD to... Much to our benefit...