Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I focused on one thing...their handling of the media...Not the teams...

You and I had this conversation not long ago, and I asked if people watched you in your job would you like it if they criticized you...You came back with something about inter-personal skills, and leadership, and I'd hear them out...And that's fine...

But I truly do not know if there's a "technical component" in selling Enterprise Software...

I do know the jobs I've held since I was 22 (ATC and ATC automation systems) most certainly do, and those would be the things I'm not sure too many people outside of my career fields could question me on...And if they did, I'd laugh at them...Playing TRACON on a computer is much, much different than the real thing...

I can see why Coach Woodson gets short with them...Mike Woodson has a PHD (maybe I shouldn't use that because Coach Knight always said, "BS, just what it means, MS is more of the same, and PHD is piled higher and deeper"  ) in the technical aspects of basketball...No one here is even out of elementary school in that area...

There is a technical component to my job, although I have technical resources I rely on quite a bit. The CIO of a $30B company wants to hear technical validation from an engineer, not from me.

Basketball isn’t astrophysics or even enterprise software for that matter. So while I agree Mike Woodson knows more than I do about basketball, I don’t think that disqualifies me (or many others from questioning him).

And even if it did, I don’t have to question him based on what I think, I can question him based on what other leaders in his field do. “Hey you’re doing stuff a lot different than Tommy Lloyd and it isn’t working out great so far, tell me about that?” is a completely valid question, yeah?

I do get questioned on why I do what I do in my job and my performance. Most people do, right? I use hard (analytics) and soft examples to self assess and to justify my performance to people. Sure I don’t have the press to deal with, but even going beyond that it isn’t like Scott Dolson is anymore qualified to question Mike Woodson on X and Os than @BGleasis.

My ability to have a conversation about physics with Albert Einstein is significantly more lacking than my ability to have a conversation with Mike Woodson about basketball. There are tons of people on this board that have a very good understanding and knowledge of the game. 

[13th&Jackson]

11 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I can see why Coach Woodson gets short with them...Mike Woodson has a PHD (maybe I shouldn't use that because Coach Knight always said, "BS, just what it means, MS is more of the same, and PHD is piled higher and deeper"  ) in the technical aspects of basketball...No one here is even out of elementary school in that area...

If you watch the press conference, it was a bunch of softball questions. I’m sure he dealt with much worse in the NY media. 
He took over a team that really struggled with perimeter offense and defense. Three years in they are worse. Is it not legitimate for a reporter to ask if they are doing something different after the Auburn game?

[IUJoe]

18 minutes ago, Indykev said:

one leads to the other

So, you don’t want us shooting more threes with our current team?

[IUProfessor]

29 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

 

And Woodson can say whatever he wants, he hasn’t built a roster remotely resembling that style of play or done anything to show that’s how he wants to play. 

This strikes me as the key point in this entire debate. By year three this is Woody's roster, for better or worse.

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, IUProfessor said:

This strikes me as the key point in this entire debate. By year three this is Woody's roster, for better or worse.

And it isn’t like anyone is remotely calling for his head. This is a bunch of fans saying “things aren’t going as well as we’d like, here are some areas we can improve that would lead to a better product.”

It is wild to me that there is a group that essentially saying “things are fine how they are, stop questioning things”.

I just don’t get why we wouldn’t want things to get better if we are IU fans?

[IUJoe]

29 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yes

Hey, as long as we’re bitching….

[IUJoe]

13 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

There is a technical component to my job, although I have technical resources I rely on quite a bit. The CIO of a $30B company wants to hear technical validation from an engineer, not from me.

Basketball isn’t astrophysics or even enterprise software for that matter. So while I agree Mike Woodson knows more than I do about basketball, I don’t think that disqualifies me (or many others from questioning him).

And even if it did, I don’t have to question him based on what I think, I can question him based on what other leaders in his field do. “Hey you’re doing stuff a lot different than Tommy Lloyd and it isn’t working out great so far, tell me about that?” is a completely valid question, yeah?

I do get questioned on why I do what I do in my job and my performance. Most people do, right? I use hard (analytics) and soft examples to self assess and to justify my performance to people. Sure I don’t have the press to deal with, but even going beyond that it isn’t like Scott Dolson is anymore qualified to question Mike Woodson on X and Os than @BGleasis.

My ability to have a conversation about physics with Albert Einstein is significantly more lacking than my ability to have a conversation with Mike Woodson about basketball. There are tons of people on this board that have a very good understanding and knowledge of the game. 

I work in a field (taxes) that people bitch about more than this board bitches about Mike Woodson, three point shooting, recruiting, and the brand of our uniforms combined.  A lot of people think they know a lot about taxes.  They don’t.  And there are many, many subjects one could unfortunately say that about, most of which are much less complex than physics.

[13th&Jackson]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

And it isn’t like anyone is remotely calling for his head. This is a bunch of fans saying “things aren’t going as well as we’d like, here are some areas we can improve that would lead to a better product.”

It is wild to me that there is a group that essentially saying “things are fine how they are, stop questioning things”.

I just don’t get why we wouldn’t want things to get better if we are IU fans?

100%. The frustrating thing is that so many were seeing this in the off-season, but the issues weren’t addressed. We were thin already at guard and lacked shooters. 
In an era when there wasn’t a transfer portal, Knight brought in Smart and Garret, because he lacked athletes. Crean brought in Zeisloft an Bielfeldt for more perimeter shooting. 
The current coaching staff did a great job bringing in Ware for TJD but totally failed with guards. 
Watching WI, they had a B1G 1st team freshman in Essegian, but they recruited over him and they’re much better this year. 

[KoB2011]

Just now, IUJoe said:

I work in a field (taxes) that people bitch about more than this board bitches about Mike Woodson, three point shooting, recruiting, and the brand of our uniforms combined.  A lot of people think they know a lot about taxes.  They don’t.  And there are many, many subjects one could unfortunately say that about, most of which are much less complex than physics.

Sure, I get that. I studied politics and religion and started my career working in politics. Those are two things everyone has an opinion on and that it’s just as valid as someone who has some credentials in the field.

I’d put basketball as a complex topic somewhere below taxes, politics, and religion.

[KoB2011]

And the thing with basketball if we are comparing it to taxes or physics, those are two fields where a lot of things will be objectively correct or incorrect. That isn’t the case with basketball, it’s a much more subjective topic than those two things (probably more similar to what I do, sales, than being a CPA or a physicist). 

[IUFLA]

29 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

If you watch the press conference, it was a bunch of softball questions. I’m sure he dealt with much worse in the NY media. 
He took over a team that really struggled with perimeter offense and defense. Three years in they are worse. Is it not legitimate for a reporter to ask if they are doing something different after the Auburn game?

I watched it...Same question he's fielded since the beginning of the season...He's answered it...He's tired of answering it...I don't blame him...

And you can't compare 9 games into this season to either of the preceding seasons...The end might look quite different...

33 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

And even if it did, I don’t have to question him based on what I think, I can question him based on what other leaders in his field do. “Hey you’re doing stuff a lot different than Tommy Lloyd and it isn’t working out great so far, tell me about that?” is a completely valid question, yeah?

Tommy Lloyd has different personnel than we do, so it's not...

Our strength is inside...Woody is going to go to that strength, and I think any coach would...

35 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I do get questioned on why I do what I do in my job and my performance. Most people do, right? I use hard (analytics) and soft examples to self assess and to justify my performance to people. Sure I don’t have the press to deal with, but even going beyond that it isn’t like Scott Dolson is anymore qualified to question Mike Woodson on X and Os than @BGleasis.

Scott Dolson is going to go more on wins and losses than anything...He's got a solid knowledge of basketball simply because of his background, but in the end, Woody's career will be judged by Ws and Ls

 

36 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

My ability to have a conversation about physics with Albert Einstein is significantly more lacking than my ability to have a conversation with Mike Woodson about basketball. There are tons of people on this board that have a very good understanding and knowledge of the game. 

Pauly Shore probably knows something about acting too, but I'm not sure he'd call DeNiro to give him tips  

[Drroogh]

I’ll say it again, reading this board I start feeling like a dead horse!

[KoB2011]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Tommy Lloyd has different personnel than we do, so it's not...

Our strength is inside...Woody is going to go to that strength, and I think any coach would...

I don’t think every coach would do it to this degree. I actually think very few would…

And I picked Lloyd for a specific reason. Caleb Love is one guy, but it seems like he was ours if we wanted him and he’s now an impact player for Lloyd at a spot we desperately need. 

7 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Scott Dolson is going to go more on wins and losses than anything...He's got a solid knowledge of basketball simply because of his background, but in the end, Woody's career will be judged by Ws and Ls

Do you think that describes anything different than what a lot of folks look at?

But if you’re talking about the “why” behind the end results, you’ve essentially said Scott Dolson wouldn’t be qualified to even question Woody on that. It’s puzzling for all the talk about leadership. 

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Pauly Shore probably knows something about acting too, but I'm not sure he'd call DeNiro to give him tips

So we are still on no one besides a more accomplished coach can even question Woodson?

If that’s your mindset, why even bother logging in? It genuinely seems like a massive waste of time. 

[Steubenhoosier]

1 hour ago, Hoosier4Life53 said:

I understand your point, and it has merit, but I can’t imagine an elite guard being excited about playing in our current offense. I hope I’m wrong and we land one in the portal to compliment McNeely next year. 

You mean like Schifino?

[Inequality]

-Friendly language reminder-

Also, I’d say the jury is still out on Mike Woodson and his ability to translate his supposed wizardry to the current college game. 

There is a reason this conversation exist. Indiana basketball fans know the game. They know a good product on the floor. So far, the eye test is mediocre.

If I’m being honest, we bought out Crean to end up worse with Archie to end up a little worse than Crean. Hey, that’s just my opinion that I’m entitled to.

A well put together team can be very successful. Dusty May is doing a fine job for where he is at and is recruiting 3 star players.

As for 3 point shooters on this current roster, I’m going with Cupps and MGbako and crossing my fingers.

[Drroogh]

I realized way back in the 70’s the absolute worst arguments were when both sides were essentially arguing the same thing but from a different perspective! 

[KoB2011]

5 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

You mean like Schifino?

If we are calling getting elite guards a KPI that will help predict wins and losses, how frequently should we expect to hit on that KPI?

[IUFLA]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Caleb Love is one guy, but it seems like he was ours if we wanted him and he’s now an impact player for Lloyd at a spot we desperately need. 

I heard the Zoom call didn't go well...Tough to say what the fly in the ointment was on that one without hearing from someone with first hand knowledge...

 

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Do you think that describes anything different than what a lot of folks look at?

But if you’re talking about the “why” behind the end results, you’ve essentially said Scott Dolson wouldn’t be qualified to even question Woody on that. It’s puzzling for all the talk about leadership. 

I can think of a lot of things that can get a coach fired, but I'm not sure tactics, if he's winning, is one of them...And yeah, Dolson was around IU's basketball team when he was a manager, so he probably knows a bit more about the game than the crowd on here and the media...

6 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

So we are still on no one besides a more accomplished coach can even question Woodson?

If that’s your mindset, why even bother logging in? It genuinely seems like a massive waste of time. 

I've never said that...But you're not going to be satisfied until you've convinced everyone that if Woody would wake up and play the "modern game" we'd be ok...And that's just not the truth...There are a LOT of ways to win basketball games...and the strategies change all the time...Back in 1940, the single wing was all the rage until George Halas rolled out the T formation  . Who knows? Maybe Woody will set precedence here  

I prefer to talk matchups, who we want to hold down, ect...I see the smartass little laugh emojis when someone says something degrading about Woody or the team...I'm not that kind of fan...Back when Crean came on board, I'm sure a lot of people got their laughs in...I personally rooted harder for those teams than almost any we've had...

I think you and I view games differently...I don't take them as seriously as some I guess, not to the point where I'm being overly critical of them...It's entertainment to me...It's a lifestyle to Woody and the kids...Nothing to laugh at as far as I'm concerned...

And I'm not telling you how to be a fan...You be you...

And I'll be me...

[IUFLA]

9 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I’m going with Cupps and MGbako and crossing my fingers.

18 whole games of college experience...You are bold  

[Drroogh]

8 minutes ago, Drroogh said:

I realized way back in the 70’s the absolute worst arguments were when both sides were essentially arguing the same thing but from a different perspective! 

I’ll add those who argue from the past are anchors, those who argue from the future are untethered! Me I haven’t mailed in the season, I still have hope IU makes the tournament and have a feeling that if they do, nobody will want to play them!

[Inequality]

Just now, IUFLA said:

18 whole games of college experience...You are bold  

Well, the others are proven bricklayers. Of what’s available, I think they show the most potential.

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Well, the others are proven bricklayers. Of what’s available, I think they show the most potential.

Ware? If there IS one guy I wish that would shoot it more "in the flow of the offense"   it's Kel'el...

And I think Galloway just needs to get his confidence back...

Edited December 16, 2023 by IUFLA

[KoB2011]

10 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

 

I can think of a lot of things that can get a coach fired, but I'm not sure tactics, if he's winning, is one of them...And yeah, Dolson was around IU's basketball team when he was a manager, so he probably knows a bit more about the game than the crowd on here and the media...

No one would want him fired for his tactics, you get that right? The concern is the tactics won’t lead to the wins and losses being in the right place.

I can’t imagine someone getting fired without talking about the “why” behind why the results aren’t good enough. Can you?

12 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I've never said that...But you're not going to be satisfied until you've convinced everyone that if Woody would wake up and play the "modern game" we'd be ok...And that's just not the truth...There are a LOT of ways to win basketball games...and the strategies change all the time...Back in 1940, the single wing was all the rage until George Halas rolled out the T formation  . Who knows? Maybe Woody will set precedence here  

I prefer to talk matchups, who we want to hold down, ect...I see the smartass little laugh emojis when someone says something degrading about Woody or the team...I'm not that kind of fan...Back when Crean came on board, I'm sure a lot of people got their laughs in...I personally rooted harder for those teams than almost any we've had...

I think you and I view games differently...I don't take them as seriously as some I guess, not to the point where I'm being overly critical of them...It's entertainment to me...It's a lifestyle to Woody and the kids...Nothing to laugh at as far as I'm concerned...

And I'm not telling you how to be a fan...You be you...

And I'll be me...

You actually say that frequently. It’s a repeated point you make despite it being a logical fallacy.

I don’t really care if folks agree with me. I am currently annoyed that you and a few others want to stifle discussion on a message board. I actually like when folks disagree with me and explain their position so I can learn from them.

You absolutely tell people how to be a fan on a regular basis. I completely agree we don’t watch the game the same and that’s fine, I just don’t tell you that you are wrong for not wanting to go deeper than the final score like you tell me. I think it’s great you enjoy just watching the game and not worrying about the why behind the results, that’s just not how I watch. Talking and thinking about the why is a really fun distraction for me from a stressful job and raising three kids 8 and under. 

[Inequality]

8 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Ware? If there IS one guy I wish that would shoot it more "in the flow of the offense"   it's Kel'el...

And I think Galloway just needs to get his confidence back...

Oh Ware has shown the ability but if he was brought in to be our center and shooting guard then that’s a huge problem. Ware needs help in the form of better pieces around him.

Galloway is a guy I’ve pulled for since his arrival. I prefer his aggressive slashing to the basket but not upset at all if he wants to shoot a couple long range to test the waters.

Im not filing the season away. I don’t think anyone here is. Just caught up in the reality that we just aren’t that great at the moment.

Consistant contributors are Ware and Reneau. Without those two we haven’t much of a competitive team at all. Galloway brings a floor general aspect and this team needs leadership. Other than that I’m hopeful for the rest starting with Cupps and Mgbako.

I hope we destroy Kansas but know we will have to be very lucky and them very unlucky for it to happen.

With that, I’m out. It’s been a tough week for my family and we are all exhausted. Have a great night folks!

[Seeking6]

23 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

No one would want him fired for his tactics, you get that right? The concern is the tactics won’t lead to the wins and losses being in the right place.

I can’t imagine someone getting fired without talking about the “why” behind why the results aren’t good enough. Can you?

You actually say that frequently. It’s a repeated point you make despite it being a logical fallacy.

I don’t really care if folks agree with me. I am currently annoyed that you and a few others want to stifle discussion on a message board. I actually like when folks disagree with me and explain their position so I can learn from them.

You absolutely tell people how to be a fan on a regular basis. I completely agree we don’t watch the game the same and that’s fine, I just don’t tell you that you are wrong for not wanting to go deeper than the final score like you tell me. I think it’s great you enjoy just watching the game and not worrying about the why behind the results, that’s just not how I watch. Talking and thinking about the why is a really fun distraction for me from a stressful job and raising three kids 8 and under. 

Look buddy. Ever since last weekend when I said the EI comment (which seems true) you've been on a rampage this week ( at least 8-9 references) to prove how right you are. All in the name of discussion? Discussion...check Websters...the exchange of ideas....yet every single discussion you've been in it's with this passive aggressive approach of telling me or others why you seem to be right and others are wrong. Now my guess in the response to this is you'll say I do the same as do others....

How about this? You might be right....does that give you solace? You might be wrong? Does that give me solace? Of course not. Being right in life is never the end goal....and especially on a message board when I'm assuming the common trait amongst us all is our love of IU.

Just my two cents. Chill it out. You've been arguing with what seems like yourself for a week. See how the season plays. Go from there but please spare the I want more from IU talk.....