Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[dgambill]

Have to wonder do rip the bandaid off….the recruiting class has one player and I’m not sure we lead for anyone else. There is no evidence the recruits coming in will fix this either. In the portal world a new coach can come in and bring in a totally new team and win quickly. Just not sure how we stop the bleeding. Gotta be some big changes on how we play….bringing in shooters and dynamic guard play. Honestly it looks like a pretty lazy job of coaching right now. 

[BGleas]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Have to wonder do rip the bandaid off….the recruiting class has one player and I’m not sure we lead for anyone else. There is no evidence the recruits coming in will fix this either. In the portal world a new coach can come in and bring in a totally new team and win quickly. Just not sure how we stop the bleeding. Gotta be some big changes on how we play….bringing in shooters and dynamic guard play. Honestly it looks like a pretty lazy job of coaching right now. 

I said this in the IUBB 24 thread, but I'll say it here too. I think Woodson deserves another year, but I also think whether he deserves another year is irrelevant. 

If you're Scott Dolson, the only thing that matters is if you think Mike Woodson is the right guy to turn this around next season. Do you believe Mike Woodson is the guy to make this a top 25 team next season?

If the answer is yes, then you give him that next year that he deserves. If the answer is no, then you have to make the move after the season. 

You can't lose a year because the coach 'deserves' the chance. 

[FWIUFan]

On 3/28/2021 at 4:06 PM, BGleas said:

Dolson is either a genius or an idiot, we're about to find out. 

Unfortunately, I think we've found out.  Snake eyes!!!!

[13th&Jackson]

 

On 3/28/2021 at 4:06 PM, BGleas said:

Dolson is either a genius or an idiot, we're about to find out. 

 

42 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

Unfortunately, I think we've found out.  Snake eyes!!!!

As Colonel Kurtz would say, he’s neither

[Hoosier987]

Splendid 

[NotIThatLives]

I really like Mike Woodson.   I want him to succeed and continue to be an ambassador.   When I see Walsh being about the only coach doing any talking, I'm wondering what's going on.   CMW looks lethargic and dumbfounded.  His press conferences are the same.  Out of respect, if we don't have some stud transfers lined up, he needs to retire and make this thing as smooth as possible.  Over the last 2 years there has been this talk of portal guys wanting to come but CMW stayed loyal to the team he had.  Now we hear the staff is more prepared for the next portal season, whatever that means.  Unless he retires he's probably going to get another year.  IU is so worried about optics except in the case of pedo Kinsey.  

[Hoosier987]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Do you believe Mike Woodson is the guy to make this a top 25 team next season?

If the answer is yes, then you give him that next year that he deserves. If the answer is no, then you have to make the move after the season. 

You can't lose a year because the coach 'deserves' the chance. 

As each game/day/week goes by with the lack of player development, team development, accountability, borderline Kenny Payne type answers, unwillingness to change schematics that clearly don’t work, the question to your answer is increasingly no. Now, if you go back, I’ve always said it will be hard to nudge Woodson into retirement due to the other factors involved…but again, as each day goes by, it’s seems like…as improbable as it was….a little more probable that you may have those other factors/people talk to Woodson. This is getting bad and IUBB doesn’t deserve this. 

[FWIUFan]

I think we have forgotten how unimpressed most were with the CMW hire when it was announced.  

What seemed to placate fans was we were given some sort of holy trinity of BB in the deal.  CMW with NBA experience and a modern approach to our play. for the present, Matta for college experience, and last Fife for the future.  Now Matta is gone and successful once again.  Fife has gone who knows where.  CMW is left standing on his own now and the emperor has no clothes.

Unfortunately, he has shown us nothing more than CAM 2.0 for now his 3rd year.  It's Groundhog Day with men's IUBB.  I see no evidence of any change for this season and no evidence of improvement next year.

IUBB is a meritocracy.  I'm officially giving my vote of NO CONFIDENCE.  He should retire or be fired at the end of this year.  If not both he and Dolson need to be fired and replaced.  

[Hoosier987]

3 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

I think we have forgotten how unimpressed most were with the CMW hire when it was announced.  

What seemed to placate fans was we were given some sort of holy trinity of BB in the deal.  CMW with NBA experience and a modern approach to our play. for the present, Matta for college experience, and last Fife for the future.  Now Matta is gone and successful once again.  Fife has gone who knows where.  CMW is left standing on his own now and the emperor has no clothes.

Unfortunately, he has shown us nothing more than CAM 2.0 for now his 3rd year.  It's Groundhog Day with men's IUBB.  I see no evidence of any change for this season and no evidence of improvement next year.

IUBB is a meritocracy.  I'm officially giving my vote of NO CONFIDENCE.  He should retire or be fired at the end of this year.  If not both he and Dolson need to be fired and replaced.  

Good points…you should also mention he inherited a generational talent in TJD.

[BGleas]

1 minute ago, FWIUFan said:

I think we have forgotten how unimpressed most were with the CMW hire when it was announced.  

What seemed to placate fans was we were given some sort of holy trinity of BB in the deal.  CMW with NBA experience and a modern approach to our play. for the present, Matta for college experience, and last Fife for the future.  Now Matta is gone and successful once again.  Fife has gone who knows where.  CMW is left standing on his own now and the emperor has no clothes.

Unfortunately, he has shown us nothing more than CAM 2.0 for now his 3rd year.  It's Groundhog Day with men's IUBB.  I see no evidence of any change for this season and no evidence of improvement next year.

IUBB is a meritocracy.  I'm officially giving my vote of NO CONFIDENCE.  He should retire or be fired at the end of this year.  If not both he and Dolson need to be fired and replaced.  

That's what got me excited. I was extremely underwhelmed at first. 

But when Matta and Fife were hired, along with some of the other moves, I thought maybe Dolson was actually being innovative here. 

I thought maybe IU was going to be at the forefront of building the college version of an NBA Front Office. 

Matta as sort of a quasi General Manager helping with developing the stylistic makeup of the program and the recruiting philosophy, with Woodson as the Head Coach/President of BBall Ops or something like that. 

That's what got me excited. 

[KoB2011]

1 minute ago, Hoosier987 said:

Good points…you should also mention he inherited a generational talent in TJD.

It is interesting for as much as we like to ridicule Juwan Howard and point out that his year 2 success was because of the situation he inherited, his year 2 success was much better than ours and he probably didn’t have any better talent than us on that team. 

[Inequality]

I’ll stand alone in the minority. I think you don’t waste anymore time. IU already screwed up and killed three years. The program trajectory isn’t where you had in mind in year three. Cut ties and move on.

The hire was completely nostalgic. Thanks Buckner but there really wasn’t much of the traditional IU to salvage. That left with Coach Knight. He was the tradition. 

Matta was the only semi exciting thing about the new staff. He’s gone, Trace and Jalen gone, who btw was the reason IU made any noise to begin with.

As much as I believe Woodson means well I don’t see it happening in 2-3 years.

I hate the coaching carousel. I don’t blame the coaches though. I put all blame on the admin and Buckner and anyone that helped make the decisions.

 

[Inequality]

13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

That's what got me excited. I was extremely underwhelmed at first. 

But when Matta and Fife were hired, along with some of the other moves, I thought maybe Dolson was actually being innovative here. 

I thought maybe IU was going to be at the forefront of building the college version of an NBA Front Office. 

Matta as sort of a quasi General Manager helping with developing the stylistic makeup of the program and the recruiting philosophy, with Woodson as the Head Coach/President of BBall Ops or something like that. 

That's what got me excited. 

100% same page there

[Hoosier987]

[NCHoosier32]

44 minutes ago, NotIThatLives said:

I really like Mike Woodson.   I want him to succeed and continue to be an ambassador.   When I see Walsh being about the only coach doing any talking, I'm wondering what's going on.   CMW looks lethargic and dumbfounded.  His press conferences are the same.  Out of respect, if we don't have some stud transfers lined up, he needs to retire and make this thing as smooth as possible.  Over the last 2 years there has been this talk of portal guys wanting to come but CMW stayed loyal to the team he had.  Now we hear the staff is more prepared for the next portal season, whatever that means.  Unless he retires he's probably going to get another year.  IU is so worried about optics except in the case of pedo Kinsey.  

yeah, I like him too.  seems like a good guy and a cool dude.  he obviously embraces IU history, has the alumni involved, is cool enough to get some talented kids, just not the guy to get us past mediocre.  in that sense, a little like Crean?  but Crean's teams were more fun to watch.  

[NCHoosier32]

21 minutes ago, FWIUFan said:

I think we have forgotten how unimpressed most were with the CMW hire when it was announced.  

What seemed to placate fans was we were given some sort of holy trinity of BB in the deal.  CMW with NBA experience and a modern approach to our play. for the present, Matta for college experience, and last Fife for the future.  Now Matta is gone and successful once again.  Fife has gone who knows where.  CMW is left standing on his own now and the emperor has no clothes.

Unfortunately, he has shown us nothing more than CAM 2.0 for now his 3rd year.  It's Groundhog Day with men's IUBB.  I see no evidence of any change for this season and no evidence of improvement next year.

IUBB is a meritocracy.  I'm officially giving my vote of NO CONFIDENCE.  He should retire or be fired at the end of this year.  If not both he and Dolson need to be fired and replaced.  

absolutely this

[NCHoosier32]

6 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I’ll stand alone in the minority. I think you don’t waste anymore time. IU already screwed up and killed three years. The program trajectory isn’t where you had in mind in year three. Cut ties and move on.

The hire was completely nostalgic. Thanks Buckner but there really wasn’t much of the traditional IU to salvage. That left with Coach Knight. He was the tradition. 

Matta was the only semi exciting thing about the new staff. He’s gone, Trace and Jalen gone, who btw was the reason IU made any noise to begin with.

As much as I believe Woodson means well I don’t see it happening in 2-3 years.

I hate the coaching carousel. I don’t blame the coaches though. I put all blame on the admin and Buckner and anyone that helped make the decisions.

 

you definitely DON'T stand alone on this!  i stand strongly beside you, but i don't think there's any way it happens.  as a matter of fact, i would guess if we started a poll that the clear majority would rather him not get another year.  i also think a poll would show that most think he will get another year.

[Zuckerkorn]

1 minute ago, NCHoosier32 said:

you definitely DON'T stand alone on this!  i stand strongly beside you, but i don't think there's any way it happens.  as a matter of fact, i would guess if we started a poll that the clear majority would rather him not get another year.  i also think a poll would show that most think he will get another year.

True.  Also, historically we always wait too long to make a change.

[KoB2011]

26 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I’ll stand alone in the minority. I think you don’t waste anymore time. IU already screwed up and killed three years. The program trajectory isn’t where you had in mind in year three. Cut ties and move on.

The hire was completely nostalgic. Thanks Buckner but there really wasn’t much of the traditional IU to salvage. That left with Coach Knight. He was the tradition. 

Matta was the only semi exciting thing about the new staff. He’s gone, Trace and Jalen gone, who btw was the reason IU made any noise to begin with.

As much as I believe Woodson means well I don’t see it happening in 2-3 years.

I hate the coaching carousel. I don’t blame the coaches though. I put all blame on the admin and Buckner and anyone that helped make the decisions.

 

I think I might be there with you after last night. It’s not that we lost, it’s how we lost. It’s how our leader responded to his team being dirty again.  

[KoB2011]

 

[HoosierDom]

What gets me about this team, and really every team that Woodson has coached at IU, is that we roll out a big heavy line-up, but still have a defensive philosophy that seems designed to clog the paint and help out bigs that aren't big enough. Either of those things alone, I think are defensible (they can easily be argued against, but I don't think they're definitively wrong) but to do both, and then throw in the kicker that we still can't rebound. It seems like two big bigs and packing the paint with help defenders would lead to strong rebounding. But, it doesn't.

It's clear Woody values shutting down the inside at the expense of giving up 3s - I think you can argue for that if you're also owning the glass. I still don't understand how this team and last year's can be so bad at that despite personnel that should excel at it.

[KoB2011]

25 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

yeah, I like him too.  seems like a good guy and a cool dude.  he obviously embraces IU history, has the alumni involved, is cool enough to get some talented kids, just not the guy to get us past mediocre.  in that sense, a little like Crean?  but Crean's teams were more fun to watch.  

He is not even close to as good as Crean

[Parakeet Jones]

28 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

That line about 10 new players galls me. @5fouls has broken down numerous times why that number is not the most accurate because of walk ons. The most galling thing about that statement though is that it’s likely that we are in the same boat next year with new players. Are we going to be 19 games into next season still trying to figure crap out?  

[HoosierDom]

Someone tell me what I have wrong here. As I remember it, Woody's first year, TJD's junior year, we were struggling down the stretch, but then really turned things around in the middle of getting beaten down my Michigan when we ran X and TJD on pick and rolls. I would put TJD on the list of the all time greats of college basketball when it comes to the ability to finish a lob. X proved more than capable of getting down hill and throwing that pass. That play, at least in my memory, led us to the tournament. Since then, we have seen very little of it. I remember precious little of it last year. Ware isn't an all time great with the lob, but he's in the 98th percentile. We had a brief run where I remember Ware getting some lobs this year, some from Galloway, some from X. Now that has again disappeared. Why?

[KoB2011]

It’s not about the wins and losses at this point. It’s about the refusal to adjust to what he has that could yield better results.

It is about being a rudderless program.

It’s about being a dirty program, and make no mistake, that’s what we are at this point.

It’s about embarrassing Don Fischer.

It is about the frequency with which we don’t even show up and compete. 15 losses by 15+ in 2.5 years.

Even our peak under Woodson - which involved a generational star, a lottery pick point guard, a criminally under used wing that is tearing up the G League, and a 6th year veteran 4 that was playing pro ball before he got hurt - didn’t compete for a conference title and got completely embarrassed the first weekend of the NCAA tournament.

We are flirting with a season that would be the worst at IU since before Bob Knight, sans Crean’s first couple teams that were made up of football and baseball players. And that’s with two guards that have ten years of college experience combined, and a 5-star at the 3, 4, and 5 spot. Imperfect roster or not, there’s a long list of coaches that would have that makeup in the tournament, not playing as bad as any team in most of this boards lifetime  

Woodson has time to change some of these narratives before the end of the year, but time is running out and he hasn’t shown any willingness to use introspection.