Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[BADGERVOL]

5 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

I do not think CMW should be fired after this season. And the bottom line is that he is ultimately responsible for the results on the floor. However…

 I did some reading about the responsibilities of the rest of the staff. From what I understand, Kenya is the primary guy in developing the bigs. I think we can all agree that he has done an excellent job over the last 3 years.

 I’m not as clear as to who is the guy working with the 1-3 positions. I did read that Calbert’s title is Director of Player Development. I don’t know whether he is succeeding in that role or if he is just the administrator and the assistant coaches are the hands on guys.

All that said, I do believe that the staff needs to be evaluated this offseason and it might be time for an upgrade. I would look at how Michigan has brought in Martelli as essentially a second head coach to Howard. I think Dolsen should look at a May or Michael Lewis for the spot with the understanding/agreement that he takes over either at Woodson’s retirement or removal. Call it an exit strategy… done all the time in corporate management.

I have NO idea whether Lewis couod do it or not. I’m ignorant. Why? Just asking

[Inequality]

 

[DWB]

I've had this thought for a while, and have not shared it, and I haven't seen it addressed (so far) in this thread, or others.

We have talent. Good talent. It doesn't appear to be used properly.

Watching the body language of players, as well as how they play, I've come to the conclusion that we're just not mentally tough. Gallo, Walker & Cupps are. Jury is still out on Mac. Ware is weak, X is out of control, Gunn is who knows what, Banks seems lost most of the time.

Knight was great at developing mental toughness. You'd have to be mentally tough to endure all of his "intensity". I don't think the staff has developed any mental toughness. All of the guys on the team are great people with great personalities, but I don't see them as mentally tough on the floor.

You look at teams like PU, Wisky, Rutgers. They're all mentally tough. Always great effort. We don't have that.

[NCHoosier32]

5 minutes ago, DWB said:

I've had this thought for a while, and have not shared it, and I haven't seen it addressed (so far) in this thread, or others.

We have talent. Good talent. It doesn't appear to be used properly.

Watching the body language of players, as well as how they play, I've come to the conclusion that we're just not mentally tough. Gallo, Walker & Cupps are. Jury is still out on Mac. Ware is weak, X is out of control, Gunn is who knows what, Banks seems lost most of the time.

Knight was great at developing mental toughness. You'd have to be mentally tough to endure all of his "intensity". I don't think the staff has developed any mental toughness. All of the guys on the team are great people with great personalities, but I don't see them as mentally tough on the floor.

You look at teams like PU, Wisky, Rutgers. They're all mentally tough. Always great effort. We don't have that.

yeah.  relates to what i was saying about identity.  you know those teams are gonna be mentally tough and also physically tough every night.  

[kyhoosier29]

3 hours ago, 5fouls said:

Agree 100% on Matta.  I can see Fife rubbing someone the wrong way.  But, Woodson not letting Matta do what Matta was brought into do, was a huge red flag, and not enough people questioned it at the time.  I'm fairly certain that Matta had IU's best interest in mind during his time here.  A great resource wasted.  

  

This has all made me believe that maybe Fife wasn’t the issue. 

[Hoosier987]

19 minutes ago, DWB said:

I've had this thought for a while, and have not shared it, and I haven't seen it addressed (so far) in this thread, or others.

We have talent. Good talent. It doesn't appear to be used properly.

Watching the body language of players, as well as how they play, I've come to the conclusion that we're just not mentally tough. Gallo, Walker & Cupps are. Jury is still out on Mac. Ware is weak, X is out of control, Gunn is who knows what, Banks seems lost most of the time.

Knight was great at developing mental toughness. You'd have to be mentally tough to endure all of his "intensity". I don't think the staff has developed any mental toughness. All of the guys on the team are great people with great personalities, but I don't see them as mentally tough on the floor.

You look at teams like PU, Wisky, Rutgers. They're all mentally tough. Always great effort. We don't have that.

Oh…we’re definitely soft. There’s no question about that. 

[dgambill]

9 hours ago, BGleas said:

I said this in the IUBB 24 thread, but I'll say it here too. I think Woodson deserves another year, but I also think whether he deserves another year is irrelevant. 

If you're Scott Dolson, the only thing that matters is if you think Mike Woodson is the right guy to turn this around next season. Do you believe Mike Woodson is the guy to make this a top 25 team next season?

If the answer is yes, then you give him that next year that he deserves. If the answer is no, then you have to make the move after the season. 

You can't lose a year because the coach 'deserves' the chance. 

Agree 100%…and Scott is the only one with behind the scenes knowledge of what Woody is doing day in and out. If he looks like a 65 year old coach just coasting along and not relating to these you kids no matter what he does in recruiting parents it isn’t translating on the court. None of us can know that but Scott sure can…and id pull the plug too if he already knows Woody isn’t up to it…otherwise yes another year is about all you can let this go.

[BGleas]

33 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Agree 100%…and Scott is the only one with behind the scenes knowledge of what Woody is doing day in and out. If he looks like a 65 year old coach just coasting along and not relating to these you kids no matter what he does in recruiting parents it isn’t translating on the court. None of us can know that but Scott sure can…and id pull the plug too if he already knows Woody isn’t up to it…otherwise yes another year is about all you can let this go.

Yeah, and I think if you determine he's "up to it", then the next question from Dolson has to be "show me your plan."

Then if you're not aligned on the plan I think you also need to make the move. 

If the plan is basically "we just need to keep working", then I think you need to make the move then too. 

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, BADGERVOL said:

Absolutely freaking no way in heck…keep Alford as far from this program as possible. 1.) because he’s proven nothing as a coach. 2.) because he is an arrogant a hole.

He absolutely is worse than Woodson. At least with Woodson it was possible. Hiring Alford is saying “well not be anything then average at best and fire HIM after 5-6 years and have to wait even longer for the next stab.

No sir count me out on Alford.

Never.

He surrenders

[Kdug]

1 hour ago, DWB said:

I've had this thought for a while, and have not shared it, and I haven't seen it addressed (so far) in this thread, or others.

We have talent. Good talent. It doesn't appear to be used properly.

Watching the body language of players, as well as how they play, I've come to the conclusion that we're just not mentally tough. Gallo, Walker & Cupps are. Jury is still out on Mac. Ware is weak, X is out of control, Gunn is who knows what, Banks seems lost most of the time.

Knight was great at developing mental toughness. You'd have to be mentally tough to endure all of his "intensity". I don't think the staff has developed any mental toughness. All of the guys on the team are great people with great personalities, but I don't see them as mentally tough on the floor.

You look at teams like PU, Wisky, Rutgers. They're all mentally tough. Always great effort. We don't have that.

I agree with your sentiment, and this might be an unpopular opinion, but I’d switch Ware and Cupps on your list. I can’t really say that Cupps is a mentally strong player when he looks terrified to do anything on offense. I think he hustles and always gives great effort, but I don’t understand why everyone is in love with him.

With Ware I think you could call him physically weak because he’s so thin, but I think he’s one of the few players where you know what you’re going to get on a night to night basis. He’s also the only one who seems interested in grabbing a rebound. To me those are signs that he’s more mentally strong than most of our other players.

[Hoosierinbham]

38 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, and I think if you determine he's "up to it", then the next question from Dolson has to be "show me your plan."

Then if you're not aligned on the plan I think you also need to make the move. 

If the plan is basically "we just need to keep working", then I think you need to make the move then too. 

This is the key for me, is CW willing to adapt and make necessary changes?  After listening to coach Cig,  I don't see how Scott will just accept CW telling him he's just gonna "keep working on it." CW also needs to admit the errors made in roster construction and have a plan for properly utilizing our NIL resources to build a product consistent with our financial commitments. 

[5fouls]

1 hour ago, dgambill said:

Agree 100%…and Scott is the only one with behind the scenes knowledge of what Woody is doing day in and out. If he looks like a 65 year old coach just coasting along and not relating to these you kids no matter what he does in recruiting parents it isn’t translating on the court. None of us can know that but Scott sure can…and id pull the plug too if he already knows Woody isn’t up to it…otherwise yes another year is about all you can let this go.

I was REALLY concerned for the future of the program until I realized the 'Scott' you were referring to was Dolson.  

Edited January 21 by 5fouls

[IU Scott]

Just now, 5fouls said:

I was REALLY concerned for the future of the program until the 'Scott' you were referring to was Dolson.  

I was actually proud that he thought I was the person to change all of this

[NCHoosier32]

10 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I was actually proud that he thought I was the person to change all of this

pretty sure he was talking about you right?  you have the power of email.  

[Kdug]

59 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, and I think if you determine he's "up to it", then the next question from Dolson has to be "show me your plan."

Then if you're not aligned on the plan I think you also need to make the move. 

If the plan is basically "we just need to keep working", then I think you need to make the move then too. 

Agreed all around. The thing is I could see Woodson realizing he needs to build a roster differently. But based on his comments, I struggle to see him realizing he needs to modernize our style of play.

For me, Dolson also needs to know what candidates are interested in the job. If there’s a coach who’d be a clear upgrade, make the move.

Using an example from the MLB, just look at what the Cubs did this offseason. They had a manager who was average, still under contract, and done an acceptable but not great job. However, one of the best managers was available and interested. So they fired their manager to make a clear upgrade. It’s cutthroat, but those are the types of moves an AD at a big program needs to be willing to make if available.

[NCHoosier32]

7 minutes ago, Kdug said:

Agreed all around. The thing is I could see Woodson realizing he needs to build a roster differently. But based on his comments, I struggle to see him realizing he needs to modernize our style of play.

For me, Dolson also needs to know what candidates are interested in the job. If there’s a coach who’d be a clear upgrade, make the move.

Using an example from the MLB, just look at what the Cubs did this offseason. They had a manager who was average, still under contract, and done an acceptable but not great job. However, one of the best managers was available and interested. So they fired their manager to make a clear upgrade. It’s cutthroat, but those are the types of moves an AD at a big program needs to be willing to make if available.

ahhhhhh.  love the Cubs reference.  so happy to have a good manager this year.  now gotta sign Belli, one more bat, a SP, and a closer.  

[BGleas]

11 minutes ago, Kdug said:

Agreed all around. The thing is I could see Woodson realizing he needs to build a roster differently. But based on his comments, I struggle to see him realizing he needs to modernize our style of play.

For me, Dolson also needs to know what candidates are interested in the job. If there’s a coach who’d be a clear upgrade, make the move.

Using an example from the MLB, just look at what the Cubs did this offseason. They had a manager who was average, still under contract, and done an acceptable but not great job. However, one of the best managers was available and interested. So they fired their manager to make a clear upgrade. It’s cutthroat, but those are the types of moves an AD at a big program needs to be willing to make if available.

Great reference on the Cubs. Very applicable if there is a candidate out there that would be interested. 

My reference was the Eagles when they fired Doug Pederson. After a 4-win season the plan was to give him another year to try and get things back on track. 

But when he met with the owner on offseason plans, the owner wasn't happy with the lack of change that Pederson was proposing. 

That's when Pederson got fired. It wasn't necessarily the plan initially going into the offseason. 

[Indykev]

 

[Indykev]

57 minutes ago, Hoosierinbham said:

This is the key for me, is CW willing to adapt and make necessary changes?  After listening to coach Cig,  I don't see how Scott will just accept CW telling him he's just gonna "keep working on it." CW also needs to admit the errors made in roster construction and have a plan for properly utilizing our NIL resources to build a product consistent with our financial commitments. 

Not sure how a football coach who has never coached a game here has any weight AT ALL on a guy who has been around since the 70's. I'm sure Dolson has heard bullshit before, he listened to Tom Allen for 7 years. No way Dolson fires Woodson, Dolson can't be seen as failing on another hire.

[dgambill]

What I’m struggling with is how can an nba coach have such an archaic offense. I mean watching the nba over the past dozen years how can you construct your team around twin towers and no shooting…just baffles me. I know we missed on several shooters this summer but he better have a plan to turn it around like @BGleas suggested. I worry that perhaps Woody will have too strong a backing though for us to make a move even if we figure out we need to.

[KoB2011]

3 hours ago, bluegrassIU said:

Definitely redundant lol

 

But in all seriousness, the hope from me was we’d talk about if he should/shouldnt/will/wont be fired in the thread specific to that, and everything else here. I get that there is some overlap, but one thread to cover the dominant topic and another to cover everything else. 

[13th&Jackson]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

What I’m struggling with is how can an nba coach have such an archaic offense. I mean watching the nba over the past dozen years how can you construct your team around twin towers and no shooting…just baffles me. I know we missed on several shooters this summer but he better have a plan to turn it around like @BGleas suggested. I worry that perhaps Woody will have too strong a backing though for us to make a move even if we figure out we need to.

Yeah probably another three years of this and by then, Chris Beard and Dusty May will have Michigan (or Ohio State) and Louisville rolling 

[Inequality]

11 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yeah probably another three years of this and by then, Chris Beard and Dusty May will have Michigan (or Ohio State) and Louisville rolling 

 That sounds so realistic that I don’t think it could have been wrote up any better by the IU admin.

I do think you’re right though. At least a couple more years of this because for some reason it’s frowned upon to make rash decisions. Bad decisions are much more acceptable and hold less accountability.

I think IU wants a smooth transition which is why I thought they would have the coach in waiting on the bench as an assistant.

Anyway, it’s just money they are blowing. Of all the people I am around daily, I’ve yet to meet anyone with loads of money willing to throw it out the window. Yet, those with piles of money around the program seem to have no issue doing so. That said neither do I (their money not mine) if they could just play good basketball consistently.

I’m used to IU failing at everything that I’m caring less and less if they return to relevance or not.

[IU Scott]

55 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yeah probably another three years of this and by then, Chris Beard and Dusty May will have Michigan (or Ohio State) and Louisville rolling 

Even if Dusty May goes elsewhere that doesn't mean he wouldn't come here. If it is his dream job and we offer it to him after a couple of good years at UL, we still would get him.

[13th&Jackson]

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Even if Dusty May goes elsewhere that doesn't mean he wouldn't come here. If it is his dream job and we offer it to him after a couple of good years at UL, we still would get him.

I get it, but let’s say he’s three years into a total rebuild at LVille and is coming off a S16 appearance. Would he leave that situation to start a total rebuild again at IU?