Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[btownqb]

Just now, HoosierDom said:

I've never been on team Gunn, so I mostly agree with you, but still, it's not hard to see why. Look at what happened every time, other than the game winner, Leal had the ball at the basket. His lack of athleticism is a huge minus. Giving Gunn opportunities made a lot of sense.

I can't agree. I think giving Gunn a scholarship, let alone minutes on a B1G basketball team was one of the decisions that sealed the fate of our season. 

Leal's ability to be in the right spot is a huge plus, more so than the lack of athletic ability is a minus. There hasn't been one single time where I watched CJ Gunn and thought, "wow, I'd like to see him get more mins"

If we wanted to win dunk contests, by all means, PLAY Gunn... 

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I don't believe for a second Gunn outplayed Leal in practice from March-Oct. So either our HC didn't watch those practices, or he was too dead set on running offense with the 2nd unit through CJ Gunn (lol) to realize Leal is quite a bit more of an effective basketball player. 

[IUCrazy2]

21 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I going with he didn't show up in practice and Coach Woodson knows what he is doing?

Good one.  Where are you doing the rest of your routine this weekend?

[btownqb]

22 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I going with he didn't show up in practice and Coach Woodson knows what he is doing?

I would bet my house CJ Gunn doesn't out-perform Leal in practice. 

Edited March 15 by btownqb

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

I would bet my house CJ Gunn doesn't out-perform Leal in practice. 

Coach know what he is doing.

[HoosierDom]

11 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I can't agree. I think giving Gunn a scholarship, let alone minutes on a B1G basketball team was one of the decisions that sealed the fate of our season. 

Leal's ability to be in the right spot is a huge plus, more so than the lack of athletic ability is a minus. There hasn't been one single time where I watched CJ Gunn and thought, "wow, I'd like to see him get more mins"

If we wanted to win dunk contests, by all means, PLAY Gunn... 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't believe for a second Gunn outplayed Leal in practice from March-Oct. So either our HC didn't watch those practices, or he was too dead set on running offense with the 2nd unit through CJ Gunn (lol) to realize Leal is quite a bit more of an effective basketball player. 

This is Leal's ceiling. There was no way he was ever going to grow into a guy that can finish at the rim or create his own shot. Gunn's ceiling is quite high. I doubt he ever gets there, and he certainly isn't anywhere near it now, but he's a smooth athlete that could be a really good, multi-level scorer with the size and speed to be a force on defense. That's what we need, so we had to see if he could become that. Some guys click when given the chance.

[NCHoosier32]

16 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Good one.  Where are you doing the rest of your routine this weekend?

i'm thinking there is at least a little bit of miscommunication here.  i don't think he meant literally show up.  i think he means didn't look good.  i don't agree, but am thinking some may be taking this literally?

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, HoosierDom said:

This is Leal's ceiling. There was no way he was ever going to grow into a guy that can finish at the rim or create his own shot. Gunn's ceiling is quite high. I doubt he ever gets there, and he certainly isn't anywhere near it now, but he's a smooth athlete that could be a really good, multi-level scorer with the size and speed to be a force on defense. That's what we need, so we had to see if he could become that. Some guys click when given the chance.

What does,CJ Gunn allegedly having a high ceiling, have to do with what Indiana needed this year? 

sorry but this isn't the time to experiment, if you actually wanted CJ Gunn to be a contributor later on, the kid should have RS last year, and be playing crazy sparingly mins this season. 

For what we needed--- 8-15 mins a game of just being solid. Being in the right spot, doing the right things... those mins should have never gone to Gunn. 

[ephul]

30 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

This is Leal's ceiling. There was no way he was ever going to grow into a guy that can finish at the rim or create his own shot. Gunn's ceiling is quite high. I doubt he ever gets there, and he certainly isn't anywhere near it now, but he's a smooth athlete that could be a really good, multi-level scorer with the size and speed to be a force on defense. That's what we need, so we had to see if he could become that. Some guys click when given the chance.

With that logic, we could pull any athlete off the football team, stick them on the basketball team and say the same thing about them and their ceiling.

[btownqb]

15 minutes ago, ephul said:

With that logic, we could pull any athlete off the football team, stick them on the basketball team and say the same thing about them and their ceiling.

Yep. Start Donaven McCulley... he's more athletic than anyone on the basketball team, I promise. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

23 minutes ago, ephul said:

With that logic, we could pull any athlete off the football team, stick them on the basketball team and say the same thing about them and their ceiling.

This isn't true and you know it.  I bet Leal would run circle around them all day long.  Doesn't change Leal's ceiling.  Every player has one and everyone knows it.  Should Leal have gotten more playing time, for sure.  Coach decided not to.  Doesn't change that Leal is a borderline P6 D1 player.  I get he is a fairly local kid and plays with his heart and passion for IU, doesn't change his ceiling though.

[ephul]

20 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

This isn't true and you know it.  I bet Leal would run circle around them all day long.  Doesn't change Leal's ceiling.  Every player has one and everyone knows it.  Should Leal have gotten more playing time, for sure.  Coach decided not to.  Doesn't change that Leal is a borderline P6 D1 player.  I get he is a fairly local kid and plays with his heart and passion for IU, doesn't change his ceiling though.

My comment was regarding Gunn, not Leal, Chief.

[HoosierDom]

57 minutes ago, btownqb said:

What does,CJ Gunn allegedly having a high ceiling, have to do with what Indiana needed this year? 

sorry but this isn't the time to experiment, if you actually wanted CJ Gunn to be a contributor later on, the kid should have RS last year, and be playing crazy sparingly mins this season. 

For what we needed--- 8-15 mins a game of just being solid. Being in the right spot, doing the right things... those mins should have never gone to Gunn. 

I don't follow what you're trying to say here. 

We need a guard who can create shots for himself. Leal cannot do that. Gunn can. So, going into the season, I get why a coach would want to give Gunn a chance. I also get why, eventually, you have to stop giving out chances. I'm not suggesting Gunn should be playing now. The time for experimenting is in the first month or two when you don't know what you have and you're hoping what you have will grow into what you need.

Not sure I agree that you should take a guy who doesn't clearly project to being a power conference player and aim to have him take a spot for 5 years. You never saw that happen often, and I suspect you'll see it less still in the transfer age.

8-15 solid minutes a game is not what we need. It's what we're setting for because we don't have what we need.

 

[btownqb]

9 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

I don't follow what you're trying to say here. 

We need a guard who can create shots for himself. Leal cannot do that. Gunn can. So, going into the season, I get why a coach would want to give Gunn a chance. I also get why, eventually, you have to stop giving out chances. I'm not suggesting Gunn should be playing now. The time for experimenting is in the first month or two when you don't know what you have and you're hoping what you have will grow into what you need.

Not sure I agree that you should take a guy who doesn't clearly project to being a power conference player and aim to have him take a spot for 5 years. You never saw that happen often, and I suspect you'll see it less still in the transfer age.

8-15 solid minutes a game is not what we need. It's what we're setting for because we don't have what we need.

 

I call BS on any sort of ceiling Gunn has, ultimately. He jumps high. That's it. "create shots for himself" is actually creating bricks for himself judging by his shooting percentages. 

You don't "give chances" that's the issue. The time for experimenting was when Miami beat us to the end of the portal season....at that point..we should have realized Gunn, Banks, and others weren't going to cut it---

Then we watched Gunn play all off-season plus early in the season and couple that with our HORRID start as a team, it is 100% befuddling why it took until Dec 29 for Leal to get real run. There's no way Gunn outperformed Leal to earn those minutes to begin with... there is just no way that is fathomable after watching them both play this season. One is effective and helpful, one isn't. 

8-15 mins of solid play a night is perfect... if XJ, TG, MM, MR, and KW do their job... along with Cupps and Walker. 

Edited March 15 by btownqb

[ephul]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

I call BS on any sort of ceiling Gunn has, ultimately. He jumps high. That's it. "create shots for himself" is actually creating bricks for himself judging by his shooting percentages. 

You don't "give chances" that's the issue. The time for experimenting was when Miami beat us to the end of the portal season....at that point..we should have realized Gunn, Banks, and others weren't going to cut it---

Then we watched Gunn play all off-season plus early in the season and couple that with our HORRID start as a team, it is 100% befuddling why it took until Dec 29 for Leal to get real run. There's no way Gunn outperformed Leal to earn those minutes to begin with... there is just no way that is fathomable after watching them both play this season. One is effective and helpful, one isn't. 

Add in the fact that this team, built around 2 post players, needs someone that those big guys can kick out to for an open 3. That's it. Just be a decent shooter.... and Gunn clearly is not that guy. Leal is, and a strong argument could be made that he needs to quit being so quick to pass.

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, ephul said:

Add in the fact that this team, built around 2 post players, needs someone that those big guys can kick out to for an open 3. That's it. Just be a decent shooter.... and Gunn clearly is not that guy. Leal is, and a strong argument could be made that he needs to quit being so quick to pass.

A/T ratio HEAVILY favors AL, as well. 

[Hoosier4Life53]

Just now, ephul said:

Add in the fact that this team, built around 2 post players, needs someone that those big guys can kick out to for an open 3. That's it. Just be a decent shooter.... and Gunn clearly is not that guy. Leal is, and a strong argument could be made that he needs to quit being so quick to pass.

Absolutely, both Cupps and Leal should shoot more when left open, but in most cases they’re not even looking to shoot.

[HoosierDom]

7 minutes ago, btownqb said:

 

8-15 mins of solid play a night is perfect... if XJ, TG, MM, MR, and KW do their job... along with Cupps and Walker. 

The word "if" is doing some heavy lifting there.

[btownqb]

11 minutes ago, HoosierDom said:

The word "if" is doing some heavy lifting there.

That's not on Leal, but the role we needed was never going to be filled by Gunn, is the point. 

I have already mentioned leaving the scholly open was a massive issue, but I find those to be separate issues. 

[iuswingman]

2 hours ago, IUJoe said:

There are a few on the team where I would believe it if someone said they didn't show up in practice.  Leal isn't one of them.

Maybe woodson attends as many practices as he does HS games of players he is recruiting lol

[Hoosier987]

Gunn and Banks are mid to low major players. They're not good enough to play at this level...and I suspect they will be on a different team next year. Simple as that. 

Edited March 15 by Hoosier987

[btownqb]

5 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Gunn and Banks are mid to low major players. They're not good enough to play at this level...and I suspect they will be on a different team next year. Simple as that. 

Yeah 100% 

1. we aren't developing

2. we aren't evaluating, re-evaluating correctly or at all 

3. we are trusting incompetent individuals to make personnel decisions

 

or more than likely a combo of all 3 

[Hoosier82]

9 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said:

Gunn and Banks are mid to low major players. They're not good enough to play at this level...and I suspect they will be on a different team next year. Simple as that. 

People were making similar comments about Tamar Bates last year and all he did was go to Mizzou and average 14pts while shooting 50% from the floor, 39% from beyond the arc. Not to mention, 93% from the line. Not everyone is going to round into form as an underclassmen

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

People were making similar comments about Tamar Bates last year and all he did was go to Mizzou and average 14pts while shooting 50% from the floor, 39% from beyond the arc. Not to mention, 93% from the line. Not everyone is going to round into form as an underclassmen

So why rely on them for mins? Play Leal, fill the scholly. Simple. Tamar's team went 8-24 this season and went 0-19 in SEC games. 

But, I didn't have the issue with Tamar that many of our fans did. 

[Kdug]

2 minutes ago, Hoosier82 said:

People were making similar comments about Tamar Bates last year and all he did was go to Mizzou and average 14pts while shooting 50% from the floor, 39% from beyond the arc. Not to mention, 93% from the line. Not everyone is going to round into form as an underclassmen

Bates shot 37% from 3 and 93% from the line last year. Bates had showed that he could actually provide some positive production while Gunn and Banks never have. He’s definitely improved this year at Missouri, but he showed signs of this last year and was one of our better bench players.

[Hoosier82]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

So why rely on them for mins? Play Leal, fill the scholly. Simple. Tamar's team went 8-24 this season and went 0-19 in SEC games. 

But, I didn't have the issue with Tamar that many of our fans did. 

My comment was nothing to do with Leal. I’ve been wondering for two years why he doesn’t get minutes.
As for Tamar, his team is really bad defensively and their PG (Honor) takes way too many shots without facilitating. He’s also playing out of position at small forward. 
 

My main point is, guys like Gunn can still develop into a solid upperclassman contributor. To write him off as a mid major player at this stage in his career is perhaps premature.