IU Basketball 2021-2022 Season Thread

[thirdgenhoosier]

Here is the article from the IndyStar:

Players reinstated

[tdhoosier]

Great segment on Assembly Hall last night comparing the offensive efficiency of players - specifically TJD, Kopp and Stewart. The players of hot debate lately. I time stamped the video below. Give it a listen; there's some really interesting data that's followed up with some X's and O's analysis. 

 

[tdhoosier]

11 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Great segment on Assembly Hall last night comparing the offensive efficiency of players - specifically TJD, Kopp and Stewart. The players of hot debate lately. I time stamped the video below. Give it a listen; there's some really interesting data that's followed up with some X's and O's analysis. 

 

As I re-listened, I think the main (and best) point Coach brings up is spacing can only do so much with 2 spot up shooters on the floor. This strategy will not work well when the opposition has a center bigger than TJD and doesn't need to double him, which is a majority of the teams in the B1G. We need movement. Coach states simply "when the offense moves, the defense moves" and it gives you a better chance of catching the defense out of position, but also makes them have to work. 

I know (and the AC guys get into this later) that Woody is not going to completely change up his system and there may be legit reasons for that. BUT there are obvious times when TJD is outmatched and not drawing doubles. When this happens we can't keep forcing it in and wait for something to happen. TJD is awesome, but we do need to remember he's only 6'9" and is often having to shoot over somebody that is bigger than him and hugging the right shoulder he like to turn to. We saw this against Michigan, Purdue, Northwestern, Penn St., Illinois, etc. - times when you see the offense not being able to score unless it comes off of a fast break or an offensive rebound. When this happens, can't we do something a bit differently? 

[Billingsley99]

14 hours ago, thirdgenhoosier said:

I don't disagree.  I just couldn't resist a little stirring of the pot.  

It wasn't the stirring that got them into trouble 

[btownqb]

10 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

As I re-listened, I think the main (and best) point Coach brings up is spacing can only do so much with 2 spot up shooters on the floor. This strategy will not work well when the opposition has a center bigger than TJD and doesn't need to double him, which is a majority of the teams in the B1G. We need movement. Coach states simply "when the offense moves, the defense moves" and it gives you a better chance of catching the defense out of position, but also makes them have to work. 

I know (and the AC guys get into this later) that Woody is not going to completely change up his system and there may be legit reasons for that. BUT there are obvious times when TJD is outmatched and not drawing doubles. When this happens we can't keep forcing it in and wait for something to happen. TJD is awesome, but we do need to remember he's only 6'9" and is often having to shoot over somebody that is bigger than him and hugging the right shoulder he like to turn to. We saw this against Michigan, Purdue, Northwestern, Penn St., Illinois, etc. - times when you see the offense not being able to score unless it comes off of a fast break or an offensive rebound. When this happens, can't we do something a bit differently? 

We do though. 

We ball screen for XJ a variety of ways, we run multiple sets a game for Stewart, and then we try and score in transition and then in our secondary. We have also been very good BLOB. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by btownqb

[tdhoosier]

.....sometimes (mostly credit to XJ), but you have to admit that we fall into the habit of forcing it through Trayce when it clearly isn't working. Those times when it seems like the offense is paralyzed and is afraid to do anything else. It happens a lot and that's typically in the midst of scoring droughts. It's those droughts that take us out of and ultimately lose games. 

Edit: it's also easy to say that this team does would it should 70% of the time. It's the 30% that needs to be improved upon. I know that's easier said than done. but the 70% doesn't make up for the 30%. The 30% bad needs to be decreased to 20%; perhaps recognizing and stopping these lapses can get us on that path, whether that falls on the coaches, players, or both. 

.....Take this from a guy who knows what he's talking about 60% of the time, all the time. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by tdhoosier

[btownqb]

7 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

.....sometimes (mostly credit to XJ), but you have to admit that we fall into the habit of forcing it through Trayce when it clearly isn't working. Those times when it seems like the offense is paralyzed and is afraid to do anything else. It happens a lot and that's typically in the midst of scoring droughts. It's those droughts that take us out of and ultimately lose games. 

We don't have really any other ways to score. We need better wings. It isn't an Xs and Os issue. We can ball screen for XJ, run a set for PS, or we can play through RT/TJD in the post. The problem that playing through the post with RT is... TJD can't shoot to space the floor out. 

Did we have long droughts against Michigan and ILL? 

XJ is the catalyst though. We had to force feed the ball to TJD the other night. He had a mismatch the entire game, he just played poorly. We have two guys that can break you down off the dribble and one of them was suspended the other night. That is our programs biggest issue. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by btownqb

[tdhoosier]

3 minutes ago, btownqb said:

We don't have really any other ways to score. We need better wings. It isn't an Xs and Os issue. We can ball screen for XJ, run a set for PS, or we can play through RT/TJD in the post. The problem that playing through the post with RT is... TJD can't shoot to space the floor out. 

Did we have long droughts against Michigan and ILL? 

XJ is the catalyst though. We had to force feed the ball to TJD the other night. He had a mismatch the entire, he just played poorly. 

TJD was a black hole against MI and IL in crucial parts of the game. 

And I disagree. We have areas to improve. I'm not suggesting a complete overhaul, but we need contingency plans for when certain players are playing poorly.  Also, I'm not sure if you watched the video I posted above but improvement may come fro the rotation. Analytics says that we are worse with Stewart, Kopp and TJD on the floor at the same time. We are better when Galloway, XJ, Race and Rob are on the floor. I know that stats and analytics need to be taken with a grain of salt but they can't be completely ignored and do provide context to what we have been seeing with our own eyes. 

[btownqb]

Just now, tdhoosier said:

TJD was a black hole against MI and IL in crucial parts of the game. 

And I disagree. We have areas to improve. I'm not suggesting a complete overhaul, but we need contingency plans for when certain players are playing poorly.  Also, I'm not sure if you watched the video I posted above but improvement may come fro the rotation. Analytics says that we are worse with Stewart, Kopp and TJD on the floor at the same time. We are better when Galloway, XJ, Race and Rob are on the floor. I know that stats and analytics need to be taken with a grain of salt but they can't be completely ignored and do provide context to what we have been seeing with our own eyes. 

I'm fine with TJD being a black hole. This isn't a democracy when it comes to shooting the basketball. Galloway injured for awhile, XJ couldn't stay out of foul trouble early/was inconsistent/suspended a game, and Rob is going to be out for god knows how long. 

So yeah, these three in this podcast sound great, it's not reality though. We end each half/game with Rob, TG, XJ, TJD, and RT. You can't do that when two of the three are unable to play. 

I wish we had better offensive options, outside of TJD, as well. 

[tdhoosier]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

I'm fine with TJD being a black hole. This isn't a democracy when it comes to shooting the basketball. Galloway injured for awhile, XJ couldn't stay out of foul trouble early/was inconsistent/suspended a game, and Rob is going to be out for god knows how long. 

So yeah, these three in this podcast sound great, it's not reality though. We end each half/game with Rob, TG, XJ, TJD, and RT. You can't do that when two of the three are unable to play. 

I wish we had better offensive options, outside of TJD, as well. 

So, are you suggestion it's impossible to improve with our available roster? Because we don't have the talent, we just pack it in and call it a day? Continue to do the same thing? That's the way it's coming off.

Galloway has been able to play in a majority of the games against top 150 opponents. And while he might be thee answer he is an answer (give him more minutes). XJ has also cleaned up his foul trouble. 

[btownqb]

Just now, tdhoosier said:

So, are you suggestion it's impossible to improve with our available roster? Because we don't have the talent, we just pack it in and call it a day? Continue to do the same thing? That's the way it's coming off.

Galloway has been able to play in a majority of the games against top 150 opponents. And while he might be thee answer he is an answer (give him more minutes). XJ has also cleaned up his foul trouble. 

Ok. We are already doing that. You are upset about the way TJD played against Michigan offensively, but TG was 0-5 and played awful in that game. I just listed reasons we didn't see the lineup more regularly. We're talking about lineups we can't even have right now because of injuries and suspensions. These guys podcast is completely disregarding multiple facts here, namely that MK's playing time is diminishing, quite a bit, before XJ, TB, and PS all made themselves unavailable. 

The "stat" that the team is better with TJD off the court is awesome. Our starters aren't good enough. We know that. We need more dudes.

We are 16-7 because we are pretty much a 16-7 team. 17-6 if we don't have 5 guys suspended and quite honestly, 17-6 is pretty much this team's ceiling. We are so guard deprived and have been for so long we don't realize how far away we are. 

 

[02Hoosier]

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

We don't have really any other ways to score. We need better wings. It isn't an Xs and Os issue. We can ball screen for XJ, run a set for PS, or we can play through RT/TJD in the post. The problem that playing through the post with RT is... TJD can't shoot to space the floor out. 

Did we have long droughts against Michigan and ILL? 

XJ is the catalyst though. We had to force feed the ball to TJD the other night. He had a mismatch the entire game, he just played poorly. We have two guys that can break you down off the dribble and one of them was suspended the other night. That is our programs biggest issue. 

Regarding TJD, I’m not sure Ryan Young is as big of a mismatch as you think. We know he struggles against BIG bigs and Young is 6’10 240. I’m not saying he’s super talented, but I’m not surprised his size gave TJD problems. The last two games we’ve played Northwestern TJD has scored 10 & 13 points. Not his worst, but leaves much to be desired. We’re not good enough to go completely away from TJD when he’s not having his best game, but we need to involve him in different ways. I’d run ball screens and drive all game and get TJD the ball in situations where he can use his athleticism to score. Like you said, we need more guys that can break the other team down but I think it’s their best offense.

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, 02Hoosier said:

Regarding TJD, I’m not sure Ryan Young is as big of a mismatch as you think. We know he struggles against BIG bigs and Young is 6’10 240. I’m not saying he’s super talented, but I’m not surprised his size gave TJD problems. The last two games we’ve played Northwestern TJD has scored 10 & 13 points. Not his worst, but leaves much to be desired. We’re not good enough to go completely away from TJD when he’s not having his best game, but we need to involve him in different ways. I’d run ball screens and drive all game and get TJD the ball in situations where he can use his athleticism to score. Like you said, we need more guys that can break the other team down but I think it’s their best offense.

I think if XJ plays in that game TJD goes for 25. 

I'm good with more ball screens, BUT... if you're going to do that, you have to be willing to live with RT shooting some 3s because if you're going to run that ball screen action, you simply have to have spacing. There is no other way around that. 

I think some underestimate other people's game plans, as well. NW just needed to make sure they always had two guys back the other night/keep us off the off glass... and it was pretty much an easy win for them. Other team wants to win too. 

[02Hoosier]

2 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I think if XJ plays in that game TJD goes for 25. 

I'm good with more ball screens, BUT... if you're going to do that, you have to be willing to live with RT shooting some 3s because if you're going to run that ball screen action, you simply have to have spacing. There is no other way around that. 

I think some underestimate other people's game plans, as well. NW just needed to make sure they always had two guys back the other night/keep us off the off glass... and it was pretty much an easy win for them. Other team wants to win too. 

Yeah I agree with that. I know it’s kinda pointless to talk about because X wasn’t even in the game but it’s just what was on my mind. I personally don’t mind Race shooting because everything I’ve seen shows he should be shooting a better %. I think it’s a matter of time before more start going in. Will he? Who knows, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take offensively.

[btownqb]

Just now, 02Hoosier said:

Yeah I agree with that. I know it’s kinda pointless to talk about because X wasn’t even in the game but it’s just what was on my mind. I personally don’t mind Race shooting because everything I’ve seen shows he should be shooting a better %. I think it’s a matter of time before more start going in. Will he? Who knows, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take offensively.

He has to shoot. Don't love it, but if he's in rhythm, gotta flick it. 

[tdhoosier]

14 minutes ago, btownqb said:

You are upset about the way TJD played against Michigan offensively

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. I'm not pleased that in these situations, when TJD is playing bad, that we continue to play through him. He's not an effective back to the basket guy against defenders bigger than him. So why continue to put him in these situations IF they aren't working? If they are working then great - keep feeding it to him until the opposition stops us.  

I do agree that we need more talent. You are 100% correct there. That said, i think that this current roster still does have room to grow. 

31 minutes ago, btownqb said:

We're talking about lineups we can't even have right now because of injuries and suspensions.

one line-up that we can put on the floor tomorrow is easy: TJD, Race, (either Kopp or Stewart), Gallo, XJ. Just one substitution to give the offense a little more movement and make us stronger defensively. I think Kopp and Stewart need to alternate minutes at the very least and not be on the floor at the same time. Then let's work around that. 

4 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'm good with more ball screens, BUT... if you're going to do that, you have to be willing to live with RT shooting some 3s because if you're going to run that ball screen action, you simply have to have spacing. There is no other way around that. 

I'm totally fine with that because your pulling his defender away from the basket and making the defense expend energy. Again, this is all situational (when plan A - going through TJD - isn't working)

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome. I'm not pleased that in these situations, when TJD is playing bad, that we continue to play through him. He's not an effective back to the basket guy against defenders bigger than him. So why continue to put him in these situations IF they aren't working? If they are working then great - keep feeding it to him until the opposition stops us.  

I do agree that we need more talent. You are 100% correct there. That said, i think that this current roster still does have room to grow. 

one line-up that we can put on the floor tomorrow is easy: TJD, Race, (either Kopp or Stewart), Gallo, XJ. Just one substitution to give the offense a little more movement and make us stronger defensively. I think Kopp and Stewart need to alternate minutes at the very least and not be on the floor at the same time. Then let's work around that. 

I'm totally fine with that because your pulling his defender away from the basket and making the defense expend energy. Again, this is all situational (when plan A - going through TJD - isn't working)

We do that now, though. We ball screen a lot. ILL defended it perfectly. 

I'm not talking anymore about lineups. CMW is paid like $4 million a year, Dane Fife, Matta, I don't have an ounce of the knowledge they do on this subject. 

[5fouls]

Race is a more effective scorer down low than TJD.

[btownqb]

27 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Race is a more effective scorer down low than TJD.

By what measurement? He shoots a higher % from two than TJD does, but there are a number of things that factor into that. 

Race sees the 2nd best post defender every game, teams don't double Race, and Race shoots about half the shots that TJD does... I think if his usage was close to as high as TJD's we would see a pretty significant drop in his effectiveness. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by btownqb

[5fouls]

27 minutes ago, btownqb said:

By what measurement? He shoots a higher % from two than TJD does, but there are a number of things that factor into that. 

Race sees the 2nd best post defender every game, teams don't double Race, and Race shoots about half the shots that TJD does... I think if his usage was close to as high as TJD's we would see a pretty significant drop in his effectiveness. 

Race seems to get where he wants to be a lot more often and effectively than TJD does.  You raise a valid point regarding the defender.  But, taking advantage of the situation in front of you is a measurement of effectiveness.

[btownqb]

2 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Race seems to get where he wants to be a lot more often and effectively than TJD does.  You raise a valid point regarding the defender.  But, taking advantage of the situation in front of you is a measurement of effectiveness.

True. But, our basketball team needs TJD to be a scorer, we have to run offense through him. I don't think RT can do that with the other teams best post defender on him. 

I think if TJD got the matchups that RT had on a nightly basis he'd be NPOY. 

[Parakeet Jones]

Not that this really adds anything to this thread, but I just wanted a place to say I haven’t given up on this season yet. 

[Inequality]

Race shooting the three ball more than once per game is just dumb. His offensive power is around the rim. Plain and simple.

If I’m Michigan State, or any future opponent, I’m making a point of emphasis to leave him open beyond the arc.

[btownqb]

18 minutes ago, Inequality said:

Race shooting the three ball more than once per game is just dumb. His offensive power is around the rim. Plain and simple.

If I’m Michigan State, or any future opponent, I’m making a point of emphasis to leave him open beyond the arc.

It's basically the opposite of being dumb. It would be dumb not to shoot them. 

[Inequality]

22 minutes ago, btownqb said:

It's basically the opposite of being dumb. It would be dumb not to shoot them. 

Yeah I’d have a better conversation with a walnut tree if you actually believe that.