IU set to hire Walt Bell as offensive coordinator.

[btownqb]

1 minute ago, htownbound said:

Lol - no it’s not. Efficiency is one of the best ways to judge the effectiveness of a coach. If you don’t believe me, look at Kane Wommack last year - who had a defense ranked 4th in efficiency. 

We wouldn't have been as high as we were, if we weren't as conservative as we were. Which I agreed with, but it skews that stat plenty. 

But yeah, there's about 1000 things at play here. Not just one advanced metric. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by btownqb

[btownqb]

Just now, htownbound said:

Found the numbers posted by someone online. Turns out we were 104th in offensive efficiency this year. The facts still remain though.

🤣🤣🤣🤣 

[htownbound]

1 minute ago, btownqb said:

🤣🤣🤣🤣 

I mean I don’t get what’s funny. This is still a terrible hire if it goes through.

[btownqb]

3 minutes ago, htownbound said:

I mean I don’t get what’s funny. This is still a terrible hire if it goes through.

So it won't work? 

[OGIUAndy]

2 hours ago, htownbound said:

Why give this guy a chance to destroy the program?? Why “see what he’s got”? Next year is a make or break year, and we don't have time to play around and give previously mediocre coaches a chance. We have all of the other pieces we need to be successful, but if Bell is our OC, we will most likely fail (I’ve posted his numbers below) with our schedule and Allen will be fired if next season is like this one. We would go back to where we were over a decade ago: no belief, no recruits, no good coaches, and no identity. I’m not sitting around another 10 years to get back to where we are now just because everyone wanted to give a mediocre hire a chance. Time is of the essence, and he is not an official hire [yet]. If he becomes official, then sure, I’ll cave. For now though, everyone needs to read the information and speak up.

 

I’m going to post the same thing here that I did over at BTB.

 

““He is bad… here’s the best possible information that’s available (and really the only number you need to look at). 

 

His offensive efficiency numbers by year and team:

2014 - OC - Arkansas St 76th

2015 - OC - Arkansas St 78th

2016 - OC - Maryland 68th

2017- OC - Maryland 70th

2018 - OC - FSU 106th

2019 - HC - UMASS - 128th

2020 - HC - UMASS - 126th

2021 - HC - UMASS - 127th 

 

For reference, Coach Sheridan sat 104th in efficiency this year. For further comparison, here are the offensive efficiency numbers (from good years) at IU previously: 

 

DeBoer:

2019 - 17th

 

Wilson / Kevin Johns / Seth Littrel:

2016 - 53rd

2015 - 27th

2014 - 71st

2013 - 20th

2012 - 49th

 

The numbers from former IU coaches are the numbers we know we need to compete in the B1G, and Bell is nowhere near them. I know Bell did great things with the rushing game at Maryland, or the passing game at FSU (think they finished top 2 in ACC that year), but his offenses still stunk. You can have all the stats that you want, but if your offense isn’t efficient, can't convert on 3rd down, stay on the field, win the turnover battle, or score when needed, then what good are stats?? 

 

Hopefully something changes in the next (24 hours!)”” 

 

I will also say this: there are not three people I could think of for this role. There are about 12-

2 hours ago, htownbound said:

Why give this guy a chance to destroy the program?? Why “see what he’s got”? Next year is a make or break year, and we don't have time to play around and give previously mediocre coaches a chance. We have all of the other pieces we need to be successful, but if Bell is our OC, we will most likely fail (I’ve posted his numbers below) with our schedule and Allen will be fired if next season is like this one. We would go back to where we were over a decade ago: no belief, no recruits, no good coaches, and no identity. I’m not sitting around another 10 years to get back to where we are now just because everyone wanted to give a mediocre hire a chance. Time is of the essence, and he is not an official hire [yet]. If he becomes official, then sure, I’ll cave. For now though, everyone needs to read the information and speak up.

 

I’m going to post the same thing here that I did over at BTB.

 

““He is bad… here’s the best possible information that’s available (and really the only number you need to look at). 

 

His offensive efficiency numbers by year and team:

2014 - OC - Arkansas St 76th

2015 - OC - Arkansas St 78th

2016 - OC - Maryland 68th

2017- OC - Maryland 70th

2018 - OC - FSU 106th

2019 - HC - UMASS - 128th

2020 - HC - UMASS - 126th

2021 - HC - UMASS - 127th 

 

For reference, Coach Sheridan sat 104th in efficiency this year. For further comparison, here are the offensive efficiency numbers (from good years) at IU previously: 

 

DeBoer:

2019 - 17th

 

Wilson / Kevin Johns / Seth Littrel:

2016 - 53rd

2015 - 27th

2014 - 71st

2013 - 20th

2012 - 49th

 

The numbers from former IU coaches are the numbers we know we need to compete in the B1G, and Bell is nowhere near them. I know Bell did great things with the rushing game at Maryland, or the passing game at FSU (think they finished top 2 in ACC that year), but his offenses still stunk. You can have all the stats that you want, but if your offense isn’t efficient, can't convert on 3rd down, stay on the field, win the turnover battle, or score when needed, then what good are stats?? 

 

Hopefully something changes in the next (24 hours!)”” 

 

I will also say this: there are not three people I could think of for this role. There are about 12-15, including Seth Littrel OR even Kevin Johns. This is just a flat out bad hire if it goes through. 

I see and know the numbers, but I am taking a wait and see approach because I have no other choice. I hope it works out. It cannot and will not be worse than this year. Also, do you know of any other candidates who wanted the job and were turned down? Putting together a wish list is just that. You can name OC after OC but we really don't know who's a legitimate candidate and who was offered. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by OGIUAndy

[Steubenhoosier]

2 hours ago, htownbound said:

Why give this guy a chance to destroy the program?? Why “see what he’s got”? Next year is a make or break year, and we don't have time to play around and give previously mediocre coaches a chance. We have all of the other pieces we need to be successful, but if Bell is our OC, we will most likely fail (I’ve posted his numbers below) with our schedule and Allen will be fired if next season is like this one. We would go back to where we were over a decade ago: no belief, no recruits, no good coaches, and no identity. I’m not sitting around another 10 years to get back to where we are now just because everyone wanted to give a mediocre hire a chance. Time is of the essence, and he is not an official hire [yet]. If he becomes official, then sure, I’ll cave. For now though, everyone needs to read the information and speak up.

 

I’m going to post the same thing here that I did over at BTB.

 

““He is bad… here’s the best possible information that’s available (and really the only number you need to look at). 

 

His offensive efficiency numbers by year and team:

2014 - OC - Arkansas St 76th

2015 - OC - Arkansas St 78th

2016 - OC - Maryland 68th

2017- OC - Maryland 70th

2018 - OC - FSU 106th

2019 - HC - UMASS - 128th

2020 - HC - UMASS - 126th

2021 - HC - UMASS - 127th 

 

For reference, Coach Sheridan sat 104th in efficiency this year. For further comparison, here are the offensive efficiency numbers (from good years) at IU previously: 

 

DeBoer:

2019 - 17th

 

Wilson / Kevin Johns / Seth Littrel:

2016 - 53rd

2015 - 27th

2014 - 71st

2013 - 20th

2012 - 49th

 

The numbers from former IU coaches are the numbers we know we need to compete in the B1G, and Bell is nowhere near them. I know Bell did great things with the rushing game at Maryland, or the passing game at FSU (think they finished top 2 in ACC that year), but his offenses still stunk. You can have all the stats that you want, but if your offense isn’t efficient, can't convert on 3rd down, stay on the field, win the turnover battle, or score when needed, then what good are stats?? 

 

Hopefully something changes in the next (24 hours!)”” 

 

I will also say this: there are not three people I could think of for this role. There are about 12-15, including Seth Littrel OR even Kevin Johns. This is just a flat out bad hire if it goes through. 

Really makes no difference what you or I think. Really makes no difference what your statistics are. Really makes no difference if there are 3,5, or 25 other people you think are better suited for the job.

What does matter is that HCTA has a trust in this guy to fit what he’s trying to build in his program. Allen is no dummy. He has identified some very good assistants, some who have moved on to other jobs, some still on staff . 
 

Don’t know about you, but in every job I have had over the past 40 years, the most important factor in a company/group/team being successful is that the members respect and trust each other. If Allen has that trust in Bell, then he believes he is the right person for the job.

Hope you get on board and support the program that you are supposedly a fan of rather than to come here as a relative unknown and make your presence known in such a negative manner 

[HoosierFaithful]

I'm honestly not sure what CTA needs to prove to anyone.  He clearly can pick good assistants - he lost a few to become HC's and others to bigger programs.  He isn't infallible (none of us are), so he doesn't always pick the perfect replacement.  When he swings and misses, he moves on - even digging into his own pocket to do so!

I said it before and I'll say it again: CTA has at least another year of a blank check from me and several years after that of a significant amount of trust.  I'm not sure what more he needs to do for the rest of you, but you're entitled to your own opinion.

[BobSaccamanno]

I have no idea whether he will succeed because literally no one does.

The reliance on his rankings over the years is understandable in the sense that is pretty much all anyone here knows about him.

But it’s superficial.  You have to dig into what went behind those numbers.  What happened with personnel…did he have a spate of injuries….what did he have to work with?   What was he specifically calling that worked or didn’t work, and how did he adjust?  Could it be that he has learned from the OJT he received at other schools?   He was in his early 30s and he had some pretty big jobs.   

People are acting like it’s a fait accompli that he is going to fail.  That’s fairly ridiculous.  

Allen knows what’s on the line and it’s a heck of a lot more skin in the game than we have.  He knows what’s at stake.

Let’s see how he does…who knows, maybe I will dislike him more than anyone, but at least I am giving him a chance first.   Recruiting will be critical.  

Edited December 7, 2021 by BobSaccamanno

[OGIUAndy]

52 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

Really makes no difference what you or I think. Really makes no difference what your statistics are. Really makes no difference if there are 3,5, or 25 other people you think are better suited for the job.

What does matter is that HCTA has a trust in this guy to fit what he’s trying to build in his program. Allen is no dummy. He has identified some very good assistants, some who have moved on to other jobs, some still on staff . 
 

Don’t know about you, but in every job I have had over the past 40 years, the most important factor in a company/group/team being successful is that the members respect and trust each other. If Allen has that trust in Bell, then he believes he is the right person for the job.

Hope you get on board and support the program that you are supposedly a fan of rather than to come here as a relative unknown and make your presence known in such a negative manner 

They're basically replying back to me because myself and others have called out the negativity a little bit on BTB. I post there like once a year, so I guess this is payback. My post over there was pretty much the same, why not give the guy a shot? Nothing more, nothing less. 

[Hoosier51]

2 minutes ago, OGIUAndy said:

They're basically replying back to me because myself and others have called out the negativity a little bit on BTB. I post there like once a year, so I guess this is payback. My post over there was pretty much the same, why not give the guy a shot? Nothing more, nothing less. 

I never post on BTB but have skimmed over it some and from what i can tell they are negative about almost everything.

[jv1972iu]

33 minutes ago, Hoosier51 said:

I never post on BTB but have skimmed over it some and from what i can tell they are negative about almost everything.

There's plenty of negative both places.  Patience and civility are things younger folks don't understand or even care to try.  Tearing down is the name of the game and it's only made easier by this medium.    😊

[OGIUAndy]

6 minutes ago, jv1972iu said:

There's plenty of negative both places.  Patience and civility are things younger folks don't understand or even care to try.  Tearing down is the name of the game and it's only made easier by this medium.    😊

I would say a couple of boards have been extremely negative towards this hire. 

[HoosierFaithful]

1 hour ago, jv1972iu said:

There's plenty of negative both places.  Patience and civility are things younger folks don't understand or even care to try.  Tearing down is the name of the game and it's only made easier by this medium.    😊

Don't think this has much to do with age, tbh.  If it does, I'd argue older posters get curmudgeon-y waaaay quicker than younger ones  

[HoosierFaithful]

but I'm staring down the barrel of 30, so hell, I am almost really old.

[Hoosier51]

2 hours ago, jv1972iu said:

There's plenty of negative both places.  Patience and civility are things younger folks don't understand or even care to try.  Tearing down is the name of the game and it's only made easier by this medium.    😊

While there is negativity i don't think it has anything to do with age. Patience and civility is something young nor old understand anymore. 👍

[Zlinedavid]

2 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said:

but I'm staring down the barrel of 30, so hell, I am almost really old.

It’s all downhill from there 🤣

[Zlinedavid]

8 hours ago, htownbound said:

Why give this guy a chance to destroy the program?? Why “see what he’s got”? Next year is a make or break year, and we don't have time to play around and give previously mediocre coaches a chance. We have all of the other pieces we need to be successful, but if Bell is our OC, we will most likely fail (I’ve posted his numbers below) with our schedule and Allen will be fired if next season is like this one. We would go back to where we were over a decade ago: no belief, no recruits, no good coaches, and no identity. I’m not sitting around another 10 years to get back to where we are now just because everyone wanted to give a mediocre hire a chance. Time is of the essence, and he is not an official hire [yet]. If he becomes official, then sure, I’ll cave. For now though, everyone needs to read the information and speak up.

 

I’m going to post the same thing here that I did over at BTB.

 

““He is bad… here’s the best possible information that’s available (and really the only number you need to look at). 

 

His offensive efficiency numbers by year and team:

2014 - OC - Arkansas St 76th

2015 - OC - Arkansas St 78th

2016 - OC - Maryland 68th

2017- OC - Maryland 70th

2018 - OC - FSU 106th

2019 - HC - UMASS - 128th

2020 - HC - UMASS - 126th

2021 - HC - UMASS - 127th 

 

For reference, Coach Sheridan sat 104th in efficiency this year. For further comparison, here are the offensive efficiency numbers (from good years) at IU previously: 

 

DeBoer:

2019 - 17th

 

Wilson / Kevin Johns / Seth Littrel:

2016 - 53rd

2015 - 27th

2014 - 71st

2013 - 20th

2012 - 49th

 

The numbers from former IU coaches are the numbers we know we need to compete in the B1G, and Bell is nowhere near them. I know Bell did great things with the rushing game at Maryland, or the passing game at FSU (think they finished top 2 in ACC that year), but his offenses still stunk. You can have all the stats that you want, but if your offense isn’t efficient, can't convert on 3rd down, stay on the field, win the turnover battle, or score when needed, then what good are stats?? 

 

Hopefully something changes in the next (24 hours!)”” 

 

I will also say this: there are not three people I could think of for this role. There are about 12-15, including Seth Littrel OR even Kevin Johns. This is just a flat out bad hire if it goes through. 

DeBoer was 17th in the country when OC at Indiana, but as a head coach, his offenses have only been 75th and 69th. Guess he was a “bad hire” by that metric as well. And make no mistake, that’s his offense regardless of who his OC is. Just like IU’s defense is ultimately Allen’s. 

[Zlinedavid]

On 12/6/2021 at 5:23 PM, IUJoe said:

Bell wasn’t at Arkansas State at the same time as Allen.

And just in case someone wanted dates, Allen was an assistant at Arkansas State under Hugh Freeze in 2011. Bell was an assistant at Arkansas State under Blake Anderson from 2014-2015. Allen and Bell have never served on the same staff together.

 

[htownbound]

6 hours ago, Zlinedavid said:

DeBoer was 17th in the country when OC at Indiana, but as a head coach, his offenses have only been 75th and 69th. Guess he was a “bad hire” by that metric as well. And make no mistake, that’s his offense regardless of who his OC is. Just like IU’s defense is ultimately Allen’s. 

False. As a head coach (2 years) Deboers offenses finished 67th last year in offensive efficiency, and 44th this year.

[htownbound]

12 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I have no idea whether he will succeed because literally no one does.

The reliance on his rankings over the years is understandable in the sense that is pretty much all anyone here knows about him.

But it’s superficial.  You have to dig into what went behind those numbers.  What happened with personnel…did he have a spate of injuries….what did he have to work with?   What was he specifically calling that worked or didn’t work, and how did he adjust?  Could it be that he has learned from the OJT he received at other schools?   He was in his early 30s and he had some pretty big jobs.   

People are acting like it’s a fait accompli that he is going to fail.  That’s fairly ridiculous.  

Allen knows what’s on the line and it’s a heck of a lot more skin in the game than we have.  He knows what’s at stake.

Let’s see how he does…who knows, maybe I will dislike him more than anyone, but at least I am giving him a chance first.   Recruiting will be critical.  

If failure follows Bell wherever he goes, why should we not expect the same? Allen relies on “who do I know?” so much more than “who is best”? As has been the case with more of his hires. Allen may know what’s on the line, but that has never stopped him from staying inside the box. 
 

I will follow up your comment about recruiting with this: It doesn’t matter who you recruit if coaching stinks. Coaching beats talent 9 times out of 10 at the college level, and you can see that in the regression of all of our QBs this year. A lot of good habits / mechanics with DeBoer carried over from 2019 into the 2020 season, but those habits started to disappear towards the Wisconsin game at the end. It was tough to realize at first, but it became clear over the course of this season that there was a downward trend in play. Penix playing bad was one thing, but all QBs playing bad is entirely another. These poor kids couldn’t even make proper reads at the line or work through pass progressions. That’s not on them, especially in McCulley’s case, as he is an incredibly talented QB. That’s all on Sheridan. A good OC can fix them like DeBoer fixed Ramsey. 
 

Unfortunately, the guy to fix them is a man with a terrible track record. 
 

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by htownbound

[ledies22]

It's amazing how knowledgeable and clairvoyant some of these people are.

A lot of people hated the Woodson hire. Seems to have turned out well.... so far.

If IU were to go for a splashy hire like a lot of people wanted. It would just be a rent-a-coach for a year like DeBoer.

Some comments I read from the curmudgeons about CTA not being around for much longer. IU couldn't afford to fire Sheridan outright and pay his buyout. What makes you think IU can afford CTA's buyout?

I dont understand where all of these massive expectations are coming from. We had 1 great season, in a season that was really, really weird, and it seemed like everything fell our way. That was an outlier, not a benchmark of success.

This program seems to be on a upwards trajectory under CTA, but we are in a division that contains OSU, Michigan, PSU. Not to mention MSU who seems to be top 25 team for the foreseeable future.

[rogue3542]

41 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

It's amazing how knowledgeable and clairvoyant some of these people are.

A lot of people hated the Woodson hire. Seems to have turned out well.... so far.

If IU were to go for a splashy hire like a lot of people wanted. It would just be a rent-a-coach for a year like DeBoer.

Some comments I read from the curmudgeons about CTA not being around for much longer. IU couldn't afford to fire Sheridan outright and pay his buyout. What makes you think IU can afford CTA's buyout?

I dont understand where all of these massive expectations are coming from. We had 1 great season, in a season that was really, really weird, and it seemed like everything fell our way. That was an outlier, not a benchmark of success.

This program seems to be on a upwards trajectory under CTA, but we are in a division that contains OSU, Michigan, PSU. Not to mention MSU who seems to be top 25 team for the foreseeable future.

Big Ten East is the first division to get three separate teams into the playoff in OSU, MSU, and UM, and PSU is a team that is vying pretty much every year as well.  It's not like Maryland and Rutgers are pushovers anymore, either.

We play in the toughest division in college football. 

The season went off the rails at the end due to all our injuries and lack of momentum through the season, but we were a couple turnovers and a targeting penalty away from 6 wins and a bowl season.  The entire season wasn't as bad as it seemed at the end.

[btownqb]

7 minutes ago, rogue3542 said:

Big Ten East is the first division to get three separate teams into the playoff in OSU, MSU, and UM, and PSU is a team that is vying pretty much every year as well.  It's not like Maryland and Rutgers are pushovers anymore, either.

We play in the toughest division in college football. 

The season went off the rails at the end due to all our injuries and lack of momentum through the season, but we were a couple turnovers and a targeting penalty away from 6 wins and a bowl season.  The entire season wasn't as bad as it seemed at the end.

SEC West by a lot, but B1G East is 2nd, by a lot. SECW has had three different CHAMPIONS since 2010. imo

And the bottom of each division- IU, Maryland, RU vs Miss St, Arkansas, and Ole Miss.. thats a heavy SECW advantage. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by btownqb

[Hoosierinbham]

6 minutes ago, btownqb said:

SEC West by a lot, but B1G East is 2nd, by a lot. SECW has had three different CHAMPIONS since 2010. imo

And the bottom of each division- IU, Maryland, RU vs Miss St, Arkansas, and Ole Miss.. thats a heavy SECW advantage. 

THIS season B1G east and not even close. SEC west was Bama and everyone else. Someone has to NOT lose when two teams play.

[btownqb]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierinbham said:

THIS season B1G east and not even close. SEC west was Bama and everyone else. Someone has to NOT lose when two teams play.

Ole Miss is a top 10 team, Tex AM and Arkansas both top 25. They have 4 ranked teams, East has 3. 

Plus MSST and LSU. All bowl eligible teams. And Auburn who was a top 25 team, easily, with Nix.  I would still say the SECW by quite a bit.