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3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Last years team and this years team are two different teams. Last years team had a huge deficiency on the wing. Hunter wasn’t ready and had just missed a full year, Franklin wasn’t ready and the team in general couldn’t really go small because we lacked depth and had injuries in the backcourt. Smith almost had to play a lot. 

But as @KoB2011 said, down the stretch as Hunter got more comfortable and Race got healthy, the best lineup in the front court was Hunter, Race and TJD and that group got more and more minutes. 

Next year, IU doesn’t have those issues. The depth at the guard/wing is much deeper so Smith’s minutes would have gone down or at least been moved to the 4. 

It’s a net gain because Smith is a one-way, limited player. Archie is brining up multi-dimensional players that play both ways. Stop trying to spin people’s thoughts on Smith into some backdoor commentary on Archie. 

Thompson and Hunter did not take minutes from Smith. From Brunk, yes. Last 7 games, Smith ranged from 27-34 minutes, right around his season average.

I was not Smith's biggest fan. Especially at the 3. But this idea that Archie doesn't mind losing him, or that Smith had lost his spot is not based in anything concrete. Archie makes the lineups and he played him 30 minutes a night for a reason.

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Archie quit at Dayton to come to IU. Khristian Lander quit his high school to reclassify for IU.    Disloyal selfish losers.  Low character.  Probably poison to the team (there are rumors,

Smith isn’t an NBA anything.

I wish this topic would slowly sink to the bottom.  Bottom line is Justin doesn't want to play for us anymore.  Doesn't matter why.  Time to move on.

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Truth be told, Archie had to have told Smith he’ll be playing more at the 4 next year, right?! Down the stretch I liked Hunter at the 3.... he played both ways really well. While some of you say that Jerome isn’t as good as Smith was defensively, those adjusted numbers don’t speak that narrative. Hunter played terrific down the stretch, and I’d bet dollars to donuts that Arch told him that he’d be playing from the post. I could definitely see Al getting some time at the 3 now, but look for him to play a lot. I think Al plays more than anyone not named TJD. He can rake 1-3, and can see us playing quite a bit of 3 guard lineups now.... unless of course, Geronimo comes in and plays beyond expectations. Although I still think Hunter has a year for us.. 

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3 hours ago, Danomatic said:

Truth be told, Archie had to have told Smith he’ll be playing more at the 4 next year, right?! Down the stretch I liked Hunter at the 3.... he played both ways really well. While some of you say that Jerome isn’t as good as Smith was defensively, those adjusted numbers don’t speak that narrative. Hunter played terrific down the stretch, and I’d bet dollars to donuts that Arch told him that he’d be playing from the post. I could definitely see Al getting some time at the 3 now, but look for him to play a lot. I think Al plays more than anyone not named TJD. He can rake 1-3, and can see us playing quite a bit of 3 guard lineups now.... unless of course, Geronimo comes in and plays beyond expectations. Although I still think Hunter has a year for us.. 

Look what you did!!!  You even mention "is Smith a 3 or not" and AALLLLLL of this happens.  Way to go!!  🤣🤣

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Have to admit, I'm pretty bummed about this. I know Justin has some limited abilities with respect to shooting and ball handling, but I was really hoping that he would step up and become a leader on the team this year. It's never a bad thing to have a senior who has been through some adversity on a team that is still figuring out what their identity is going to be. I'm also a little frustrated at the seemingly late timing of this announcement. It's a loss - you don't lose someone getting that many minutes with that much experience without it hurting a little. I do wish Justin well in his future endeavors, but his career at IU is always going to be kind of a "what could have been if he had realized his potential" sort of a thing, which is always an unsettling finish.

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14 hours ago, Sark said:

Not even close to Smith’s level though. Neither will contribute much next year compared to what Justin would’ve. Decent players, but neither is ready for big roles yet.

I bet they would be capable of contributing more at the 3 than Smith would.  As others have said, playing Smith where he wants to play is basically like having another power forward on the court.  To be most effective he had to clog the lane with TJD and Brunk and when he was not clogging the lane offensively himself, the guy guarding him who could give him a 5 foot cushion on the perimeter was.

If all Leal and Galloway can do is stand on the perimeter and be a threat to hit 30-35% of their 3's and be serviceable team defenders, then they could contribute just as much as Justin.

Now if Smith were willing to play the 4, I believe you have an argument.  I believe he was not and that is why he is gone.

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34 minutes ago, RoadToZion said:

We got worse yesterday. There’s just no other way to see it. 

Maybe, maybe not.

Smith had some things about him to like and, IMO, he also had some things to not like.  What we lost yesterday with him was certainty.  We knew what we had in Smith:  a pretty good defender who could get on the boards and mix it up a bit, so a decent college 4, also a guy with poor handles, poor shooting from the perimeter, and not the best passer.

He wanted to play a position he was ill suited to play.  I believe that Justin could have an attitude at times, so what we probably lost yesterday was a guy being forced into playing a position he did not want to play and the bad attitude to go along with not getting his way.

So what we gained yesterday was opportunity.  Race and Jerome woke up this morning and probably thought, "holy crap, a big opportunity just made itself available to me".  The incoming Freshman are probably thinking the same thing.  Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo are all suited to play that wing position.  Removing a guy who the staff has allowed to play the 3 for the past 2 to 3 years definitely opens things up for them.  Durham and Franklin see the potential for more minutes.  If Lander and Phinisee can both start together, you have 2 penetrating PGs, a spot up shooter like Durham can get time on the wing.  So can Franklin if he works on his shot.

On paper, we look to have gotten weaker, but sometimes the paper doesn't tell the tale.  Let's see what some of these other guys do with the opportunity that Justin leaving gives them.

Edited by IUCrazy2
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17 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Maybe, maybe not.

Smith had some things about him to like and, IMO, he also had some things to not like.  What we lost yesterday with him was certainty.  We knew what we had in Smith:  a pretty good defender who could get on the boards and mix it up a bit, so a decent college 4, also a guy with poor handles, poor shooting from the perimeter, and not the best passer.

He wanted to play a position he was ill suited to play.  I believe that Justin could have an attitude at times, so what we probably lost yesterday was a guy being forced into playing a position he did not want to play and the bad attitude to go along with not getting his way.

So what we gained yesterday was opportunity.  Race and Jerome woke up this morning and probably thought, "holy crap, a big opportunity just made itself available to me".  The incoming Freshman are probably thinking the same thing.  Leal, Galloway, and Geronimo are all suited to play that wing position.  Removing a guy who the staff has allowed to play the 3 for the past 2 to 3 years definitely opens things up for them.  Durham and Franklin see the potential for more minutes.  If Lander and Phinisee can both start together, you have 2 penetrating PGs, a spot up shooter like Durham can get time on the wing.  So can Franklin if he works on his shot.

On paper, we look to have gotten weaker, but sometimes the paper doesn't tell the tale.  Let's see what some of these other guys do with the opportunity that Justin leaving gives them.

Bad  trey shooter, below average FT shooter. Now he can be a miscast 3 or a solid college 4 somewhere else. 
I expect IU to play smaller with Durham at the 3 with two talented PG's in Phinisee &  Lander. 
I'm sure if Miller had to choose between Smith and Lander, he would pick Lander. Thompson and Hunter should be solid reserve big men

He was a miscast four in Indiana's offensive system and that's how he was told he'd be used again next season (assuming there actually is one). The vast majority of his shot attempts and points came in and around the paint area. He really only attempted ~80 three-pointers in ~100 games. And they certainly didn't want him dribbling and handling the ball out on the wing. IMO...The problem for Indiana is due to lack of true guard depth and talent, we essentially played with two 4-men along with a 5. All that did was clog the lane and everything around the goal. 

However, his NBA evaluation came back stressing that if he had any chance of getting into the league he needed to show he was a true wing player who could shoot it well and create off the dribble from the perimeter. That's simply not him to-date. At all. The kid wasn't going to be happy as a 4-man so it's best he move on and at least try to prove everyone wrong. 

He's obviously a super intelligent kid who originally was accepted into Stanford, Rice and Northwestern who just graduated from the Kelley School in three-years with a nearly perfect GPA. That's exceptional and his hardwork in the classroom should be commended. He's earned the right to try to live out his dream of making the NBA, I hope he makes it. Worst case, he'll earn himself a MBA while trying

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9 hours ago, IU878176 said:

Do you have any idea what Smith has worked on over the past few summers? Since he seemingly wants to be a three I would guess that he has worked on his handle, footwork, jumper, etc. Oladipo is often misused as an example. Was he a three star? Yes. Did he work hard? Yes. But he had a ton of natural athletic ability that was not visible to the recruiting services. To imply that others would be drafted second, or in the lottery, if they would simply  “work harder” is just not accurate. 

If Smith actually worked tirelessly on his 3 point shot he wouldn’t have shot 26% from 3 as a junior. I wasn’t implying he would have been a high draft pick. Also we know Justin has that raw athletic ability and he has the intangibles to be a great defender. If he shot 33% from 3 he would have gotten more of the shots he wanted and could’ve been a second round NBA draft pick. 

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37 minutes ago, Milosh68 said:

Bad  trey shooter, below average FT shooter. Now he can be a miscast 3 or a solid college 4 somewhere else. 
I expect IU to play smaller with Durham at the 3 with two talented PG's in Phinisee &  Lander. 
I'm sure if Miller had to choose between Smith and Lander, he would pick Lander. Thompson and Hunter should be solid reserve big men

He was a miscast four in Indiana's offensive system and that's how he was told he'd be used again next season (assuming there actually is one). The vast majority of his shot attempts and points came in and around the paint area. He really only attempted ~80 three-pointers in ~100 games. And they certainly didn't want him dribbling and handling the ball out on the wing. IMO...The problem for Indiana is due to lack of true guard depth and talent, we essentially played with two 4-men along with a 5. All that did was clog the lane and everything around the goal. 

However, his NBA evaluation came back stressing that if he had any chance of getting into the league he needed to show he was a true wing player who could shoot it well and create off the dribble from the perimeter. That's simply not him to-date. At all. The kid wasn't going to be happy as a 4-man so it's best he move on and at least try to prove everyone wrong. 

He's obviously a super intelligent kid who originally was accepted into Stanford, Rice and Northwestern who just graduated from the Kelley School in three-years with a nearly perfect GPA. That's exceptional and his hardwork in the classroom should be commended. He's earned the right to try to live out his dream of making the NBA, I hope he makes it. Worst case, he'll earn himself a MBA while trying

This is spot on. He never seemed to be happy and wouldn’t be happy playing the 4 again. 
 

Future is bright for him. After his transfer year, he can play overseas for a few years, bank some cash, then have a nice, non-basketball career. Will never wear an NBA uniform. 
 

This isn’t slamming him, but 6’7 guys who can’t shoot, don’t have a handle and don’t finish strong at the rim, don’t play in the NBA.
 

I wish him well as long as he doesn’t have a career game against IU

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1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

This is spot on. He never seemed to be happy and wouldn’t be happy playing the 4 again. 
 

Future is bright for him. After his transfer year, he can play overseas for a few years, bank some cash, then have a nice, non-basketball career. Will never wear an NBA uniform. 
 

This isn’t slamming him, but 6’7 guys who can’t shoot, don’t have a handle and don’t finish strong at the rim, don’t play in the NBA.
 

I wish him well as long as he doesn’t have a career game against IU

This 100%

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2 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

No disagreement here. Losing a senior starter is just tough. Super excited to see the young guns get more PT though! 

Agree - 

Losing Smith is a loss. Defense and rebounding and a front court scorer. 
 

But it’s also true that the team could be more dynamic now with Hunter and Race’s growth and Lander’s anticipated significant contribution at point which will create spacing for outside shooting and push the ball much better.

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I'm not sure if anyone else has said this yet, but I could see us going small ball. Just put our 4 best shooters on the perimeter and let TJD do work down low 1v1. I'm sick of the lane being clogged up by every team we play against. There may be some defensive inconsistencies with that line-up but we would definitely put up some points. 

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Just now, DireBump said:

I'm not sure if anyone else has said this yet, but I could see us going small ball. Just put our 4 best shooters on the perimeter and let TJD do work down low 1v1. I'm sick of the lane being clogged up by every team we play against. There may be some defensive inconsistencies with that line-up but we would definitely put up some points. 

Are there 4 shooters on the roster? j/k.  Kind of.

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1 minute ago, Hoosierdave said:

Anyone know this person? They are apparently a writer for the IU fansided account. I hope this isn’t true/there’s at the very least an explanation for it but if not then maybe this move was for the best. 

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All I can say is, Smith has been a topic of transfer since his freshman year...if there is smoke.....

Also, he wants the ball in his hand period and wants to be the guy....this is why he didnt go to Villanova because he didn't want to be in the shadow of Brunson.  He wanted to make his own mark.  

Not saying he didn't bite his tongue and play like a teammate.  Archie sees his role differently and Smith graduated.

He has the right to move on, and IU will possibly be better.  You can't always try and make a playet happy and other guys are getting better and OLDER.  Last year, Justin was the oldest guy in the system that played D.  Just saying.

Hope nothing but the best for Justin and he made Stevenson grads proud.

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12 hours ago, IU878176 said:

Smith averaged 30.4 minutes a game last year. In the last 5 he averaged 29.8. He wasn’t losing minutes to Hunter and Thompson and for all of our discussions about his attitude, Archie wanting to get rid of him, his dad, etc etc he seemingly always started the first and second (no matter what) half. It will be fun/interesting to see what Race and Hunter do. I expected Race to be tough on the boards but some of his offensive play/footwork etc positively surprised me. Hunter looked like he “belongs”, and his three point shot came around, but he had 5+ minute passive stretches where he was invisible (I say that in the context of knowing he was out for a year and that could dramatically change next year). 

Thanks for setting the record straight on the minutes. I was wrong, I guess that's what happens when you go off memory instead of looking it up. I do remember Smith not playing much in the second half of a game in the last month or so and my mind must have extrapolated that to mirror how Brunk's minutes dipped as well. 

At the end of the day, IU is losing an experienced player who bring some real strong positives but also has some glaring flaws. We'll definitely miss his on-ball defense and leadership on the defensive end, but as @IUCrazy2 said, IU gained opportunity yesterday. Guys like Jerome Hunter, Race Thompson, Armaan Franklin, and some of the freshmen who are less experienced but most likely more complete players gained the opportunity to show what they can do next season. 

Smith is the known commodity out of that bunch, so it's a little scary to lose him, but I also think the players that will benefit from his departure have much higher upside, though the question remains if they'll realize that upside. 

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I think one of our best lineups was Trayce and Justin at the 4/5 with 3 guards. It will be up to Race to step up his game now. Big year for him and Hunter. Also with Jordan’s athleticism he should be able to get on the court and play some defense.

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1 hour ago, dgambill said:

I think one of our best lineups was Trayce and Justin at the 4/5 with 3 guards. It will be up to Race to step up his game now. Big year for him and Hunter. Also with Jordan’s athleticism he should be able to get on the court and play some defense.

This was what I was expecting / hoping to see — TJD, Smith, Hunter/Al, Rob, Lander but also TJD, Race or Hunter, Al or Hunter, Rob or Lander, Armaan or Lander 

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Let me start by saying it always hurts when someone leaves quickly from a program. However, like a band-aid you never know if it is for the best until you see what happens. If he wanted to play a style or position which was not where the coach felt was best for the team, then it is better for both parties to separate. If he stayed and was unhappy it can kill a locker room. If the coach gives in he loses the young players. I still feel the team has the same ceiling just the likelihood of reaching it may be lessened. I think all the comparisons between Hunter and Smith are a little off. Hunter is a three you hope (big hope) can develop into a 2. He will guard smaller wings. If we play someone with large wing players you are going to use Race( or Geronimo in limited minutes if he is ready). It really depends on the team we play. Race is really the 3/4 that Smith played. Smith really hurt us on offense. The defensive player guarding him was really playing the driving lane and clogging the middle which really hurt our ability to drive and kick out to shooters(When Smith was the shooter you did not leave need to recover) . He averaged double figures because he is an amazing athlete and finishes in transition and because we played a big line-up he benefited from playing against a smaller player which helped. He Rarely created his own shot. This defensive strategy was used so well against us that opposing coaches were shocked when he hit from the perimeter. ( Izzo’s post press conference says it all). I am sad to see Smith go, but it may turn out to be best for both parties. One question, Mac McClug still in the portal? Instance offense and with a winning attitude. I know he is a guard, but I think you get talent in a Grad Transfer. If you have two spots left use the other to get another big in the portal. 

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Listening to Podcast on the Brink and they were talking about Justin transferring.  They brought up Bart Torvid who does ratings for college basketball.  Going into the off season he had IU 17th and after Lander reclassified he raised us to 12th and now after Smith's transfer he has us 19th. So to me it appears this guy think Justin would have been a big [art of the team to drop us 7 slots after his transfer.

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Interesting list for Smith....and honestly wherever he ends up I wish him well. Some of the coaches reached out probably for spite....or other reasons but if I were guessing today I still see Depaul or Iowa St as the best landing spot. I don't think Smith goes Big 10....but if he does to any of those Big 10 schools I wish him well. Means Archie is in their head and they are just trying a way to stick it to a guy building a program as deep as it gets in the Big 10. You'll notice Iowa, Sparty, Wiscy, Michigan and a couple others didn't call. The one's that did from Big 10 always keep trying to "make their bones" on IU. 

Indiana grad transfer Justin Smith tells ESPN he’s heard from: Illinois Georgetown Iowa State Northwestern Purdue Maryland Mississippi State Arkansas DePaul Notre Dame Oregon Xavier Boston College Arizona State Wake Forest Tulsa New Mexico Nevada NC State Virginia Tech

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19 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Interesting list for Smith....and honestly wherever he ends up I wish him well. Some of the coaches reached out probably for spite....or other reasons but if I were guessing today I still see Depaul or Iowa St as the best landing spot. I don't think Smith goes Big 10....but if he does to any of those Big 10 schools I wish him well. Means Archie is in their head and they are just trying a way to stick it to a guy building a program as deep as it gets in the Big 10. You'll notice Iowa, Sparty, Wiscy, Michigan and a couple others didn't call. The one's that did from Big 10 always keep trying to "make their bones" on IU. 

Indiana grad transfer Justin Smith tells ESPN he’s heard from: Illinois Georgetown Iowa State Northwestern Purdue Maryland Mississippi State Arkansas DePaul Notre Dame Oregon Xavier Boston College Arizona State Wake Forest Tulsa New Mexico Nevada NC State Virginia Tech

Notre Dame is interesting due to location and academics but Brey’s bigs can typically shoot. His bigs are usually physical too and Justin doesn’t seem to like contact much

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