KoB2011

We have lost 4 of our last 5 home games. The losses are to Nebraska, Penn State, Northwestern, and Purdue. The average margin of those losses is 13.5. Please end this. This is so unacceptably bad.

There's been lots of pointing to MSU as having a down year, but right now they're looking like they're going to have a better year this year than we did last year in a good year. That's the difference.

Not even saying you don't have info, but how in the world could anyone think we would get any type of reliable info if Liam is having second thoughts? We would probably be the absolute last people to know.

As a general statement, yes, but we also can analyze that down to the individual player level. And in 1993 there was less than 3' of long two pointers available... So I don't necessarily buy that we were taking tons of bad shots in 1993, but I will say it's pretty obvious we should have shot about 10 more three pointers per game that year.

What makes you say that?

It's pretty different circumstances now than the early Crean years, yeah?

On those specific coaches yes, but those schools all going and making big-time hires or retaining their big times coaches is not nearly as long of odds.

One thing to consider, and I don't generally like making personnel decisions as a result of what others are doing, but there is a world where we are surrounded by: Painter at PU Billy Donovan at UL Chris Beard at UM Nate Oates at OSU Brad Underwood at UI Calipari at UK Izzo at MSU That would be a tough situation to walk into for a guy like Dusty May in March/April 2025. Again, not saying we need to be reactive to other openings and who they may hire, but I don't think it should be ignored. As someone wisely pointed out when we hired Woody, he is our version of Juwan Howard and Thad Matta was his Martelli. Let's not follow the folly of Michigan and wait to long to act.

Yeah, I think he's talented and a good kid, but he needs a reality check on his basketball mindset IMO. It's interesting when we look back at some of the NBA players that have sung the praises of Woodson, it's a lot of guys that I don't know that I'd want on my team such as Carmelo, Jamal Crawford, etc. They all kind of have the same mindset as Reneau. I do think guys like that can develop and I have hope for Reneau if he is on the team next year that he'll do that. Watford as an underclassmen was probably pretty similar, but by the time he left he was like our 3rd or 4th option and impacted winning in a lot of ways beyond being able to score the basketball.

If nothing changes in the next 3 weeks, Option A. And I don't particularly player what players stay or go in that scenario.

They actually competed really hard and played physical, the NBA just brought in Big ten refs and told them to pretend both teams are Purdue.

Have to come play with energy. Nebraska is going to play relatively fast, shoot a lot of threes, and go after the long rebounds.

Not going to add much, but will add that I agree that Malik was awful. I'm flabbergasted it took so long for Woodson to notice, because this game was far from an outlier for him, but he was awful. Malik has had an ORtg below 100 in 6 of 13 conference games, I cannot fathom why anyone would think him as our primary option is a good idea, and when you consider how poor Malik is in other areas it is even more troublesome. We scored 25 of our points in the 6 minutes after Malik fouled out, we've seen other stretches having two bigs is a bad idea this year The play when it was 40-38 was one of the worst plays I've ever seen, and I'm not sure I wouldn't have sat Malik for the rest of the game after that because it was just the worst example of the selfish crap he has done all year. For those that need a reminder, Mgbako had just hit a three, then we got a transition look where Trey quickly entered to Malik. Mgbako was WIDE OPEN 7' from Malik on the wing, directly in front of his face. Malik instead dribbled into the middle then forced an absolutely awful pass inside for a turnover. He has done similar things repeatedly all year. He is a selfish basketball player. Among Big Ten players with a usage over 24%, Malik ranks 13th out of 15 in ORtg. Among Big Ten players with a usage over 20% he ranks 34th out of 43. The fact that we've forced things through him all year and he's had no repercussions for his selfish play is just another big problem. We post up anywhere from the 96th to the 98th percentile every year under Woodson, so I guess it isn't shocking.

Really good article that discusses the good and the bad of Woodson's tenure thus far from Tony Andragna. The good: Tournament Berths Talent Retention/Accumulation Pro Pipeline Player's Coach Returning to the National Stage (playing in big time non-conference matchups) The bad: Style of play - offense (extremely high level of post ups, extremely high level of long two's despite awful percentages, extremely low percentage of three point attempts) Defensive Decline YoY Roster Construction NBA Philosophies: second units, not adjusting to shorter seasons and how quick he needs to adjust Lack of Identity Rebounding Numbers Declining YoY Recruiting Philosophy Insulation From Outside Perspectives

He would be fired in the NBA by most franchises, possibly after last season if you equate that to an embarrassing first round (first weekend) exit. This season it would be a no-brainer. That said, this isn't the NBA.

Okay one more post from me.... While this is correct, you have to factor in the $4.2M you're paying him to coach next season too. It's really another $8.4M to Mike Woodson to fire him after next season. So if you don't feel like Mike Woodson is the option, the real choice is paying an extra $4.2M to go ahead and try to find the guy you want now and to give that guy an extra year.

I'll just say this, and then go back to shutting up for a while.... I think it would be 'C', which is not all of the above. It would be because when Scott Dolson (and the powers that be) look at the trajectory of the program, and where they think the program can grow to under Mike Woodson, they do not think he is the best man for the job. I'm not going to argue reasons why they may or may not feel that way, those have been argued plenty, but whatever their conclusion is on that would drive the decision IMO. And secondly, in terms of fairness, I don't think it matters what is fair to Mike Woodson. I do agree that another year is fair to Mike Woodson, but what is fair to Mike Woodson may not align with what is fair to the program and sometimes folks in leadership position don't get a fair runway because the leaders above them have to be fair to everyone else in the organization. That is true in sports, business, or anything else. I know that's not how things have always worked and we can argue back and forth all day about if that is how it should work (and actually may agree on how it should work more than you'd think), but the reality that is how things work at this point in time at most organizations. My $.02, now I'll go back to shutting up and letting folks not deal with me for a while.

I can see that or can see them making a run. Wide range for. Team imo.

“You know Don, our strength is inside, but they got that big fella. Mike Woodson has never seen anything like him. I just don’t know how you prepare for a guy like that. But Mike Woodson is here to win championships, I tell ya that. I just gotta get ‘em over the hump Don. Just gotta get ‘em over the hump.”

Yeah - the range looking 13 months out is a big range. It likely doesn’t hit either extreme, but the fact that we are even talking about that in the lower end is hard to fathom.

Theres been some talk about what next year could look like, in a good way, if everything breaks our way perfectly in the offseason. Theres been very little talk about what next year might look like if Ware and Mgabko are gone, Liam maybe decides he doesn’t want to be a part of this, and then we strike out on meaningful guard help in the portal. It could be awful next year just as easily as it could be a big rebound. I am so dreading next year as a fan right now. Painful was a good word choice.

@BobSaccamanno

Not sure I’d always want this approach, but when you’ve had as many flagrants and techs as us it would be nice if at some point there was a repercussion.