Hoosierdave

12 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

Indiana has shown over the past 2 decades that they are more than willing to collect money for bad play until they get embarrassed by the fans.  Indiana fans are "toxic" because this school ALWAYS goes one more year.  

To clarify, I don’t think our fans are “toxic”. I think quite the opposite, in fact- I think our fans have been the only thing preventing this from crumbling a long time ago. I would just hate for guys like Malik and Liam to feel like everyone’s given up on this team and staff, and guys like Haralson/Sisley/Mullins/Moreno show up for games and the vibes are depressing.  

Wish I had a crystal ball lol because I would also agree with the argument that Woody staying around could be the direct reason why Malik/Liam and the 2025 recruits go elsewhere. 
 

Disheartening all around. 

1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said:

That is how fans talk.  Don't show up to boo.  Just don't show up.  The season is over unless this team wins the BTT.  That means none of these 7 remaining games really matter one way or the other.

It’s a double edged sword in my opinion.

I agree that if fans don’t show up, Dolson will have to make moves because he can’t have a “dead man walking” as a coach and a quarter filled Assembly Hall all next year.
 

On the other hand, my gut says it’s important to continue to show love and support for this team until the season ends. Could be the difference in keeping some vital pieces (Malik, Liam) and adding some in the portal. Plus, if we did want to hire a new coach this off-season, the pitch becomes easier because you can say, “look at the passion and loyalty our fans show with a below average team. Imagine the atmosphere and NIL donations you’ll get when you return this program to winning tradition.” You can “negative recruit” against Ohio St, Michigan, Louisville, etc and claim these programs just have “fair weather fans”.

1 hour ago, Fkfootball said:

Rabjohns said that he's been told that Woodson will get a 4th year. I guess unless the wheels come off. If we suck next season, I hope the fanbase go after Dolson and Buckner. This is insanity. No, it's not "fair" to give him another season. He's had 3 and our program sucks.

Not surprised at all. 
 

Terrified at the idea of us losing a bunch to end the season, Malik and Liam dip, Queen goes elsewhere, and we end up with a Maryland type attendance next year as a bottom feeder B10 team. 

Not sure when this ad was recorded but Malik posted this today on his IG. 
 

Boot on his right leg. Hope he’s ok. 

Mike Woodson on Valentine’s Day:

”You’re a hump I’ll never get over, babe”

28 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

Why would you hope a bunch said no? I’d say it was Stevens and then fall back to Woody. 

I was saying I hope the reason we ended up with a coach like Woodson was because the rest of the better coaches (Drew, Beard, Few, Muss, etc) said no first. 
 

1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said:

“If ever there was a time to give Stevens an excuse to come home, this was it.”

“When it didn’t get done, Dolson turned his attention to a pitch he could hit.  Woodson was back in the NBA as an assistant for the Knicks, but was more than willing to accept 30% of the money offered to Stevens to professionally return to a college campus for the first time since 1980.  Because of the massive savings, Woodson and IU were able to offer Matta and Fife the kind of cash that motivated them to invest their talents in restoring greatness (or at least competence) to Indiana Basketball.”

http://kentsterling.com/2021/04/19/indana-basketball-mike-woodson-might-be-the-perfect-plan-b-after-stevens-declined-7-years-70m-iubb/

Thanks. The article makes it sound like it was Stevens then Woodson but I would assume there were several other coaches before that that said no. At least I hope so lol.

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I’d imagine everybody is sworn to secrecy. Neither party wants that info getting out. Could you imagine the reaction of our fanbase if, for example, Woody was our 4th choice? Or, for example, how Alabama fans/players/recruits would react if they knew Oates was open to having a conversation about another coaching job? 

In my experience ‘big boosters’ talk a lot to make themselves feel important. I think boosters ‘close to the program’ start 90% of these rumors. When it comes to something important as coaching searches when reputations and careers are on the line, I don’t think anybody knows other than a small group of people whose lips are zipped (aka not boosters. Not players. Not the media). 

Oh I completely agree, it would be inappropriate to publicize the order in which Dolson went to land a coach.
 

I said I hoped it wasn’t a personal attack earlier because I was genuinely hoping those on this board that have connections to players/staff would maybe have some insight into who they were hoping for the first time around. I just wanted to see some names so I could gauge how optimistic/pessimistic I should feel going into the next coaching hire lol. 

10 minutes ago, Kdug said:

Idk, I don’t give credit to a school for reaching out to a coach and have them say no. By all accounts IU did that the last time around.

I do think the last two guys you mentioned are realistic though. Will be interesting to see who they get.

I really hope this doesn’t come off as a personal attack lol but does anyone actually have a list or know of coaches that Dolson reached out to before Woodson? I’ve seen several people say “we tried to get a good coach already and ended up with Woodson”. Maybe it’s just me but I’m skeptical that every single D1 college coach said no to us and simply by a process of elimination, Mike Woodson was our only option lol. A guy with zero college coaching or recruiting experience, 60+ years old and on his final coaching gig before retirement, and hasn’t been a head coach for an NBA team since 2014… 

I do give AD’s a bit of credit because these situations at times can be a “race to the finish” so you have to be intelligent about risking time and effort for the “home run hire” when another coach you could have landed instead gets swept up. Hence why I said I think Ohio St made the right choice to put themselves in a more favorable position to get these convos started and gauge interests. 

2 hours ago, cybergates said:

Interesting. A reclass to 2024 and we land him it would seem our/Mike Woodson's PG problem may be over (for a year at least)...

For sure. Not getting my hopes up because if I understand this correctly, these kids can sign to a shoe company and still end up playing at school with a competing company.
 

Rabby reposting that to me was a little eye opening though. Not sure if that was his way of hinting that maybe IU has or will gain traction as a result. I don’t subscribe to Peegs so maybe he explained himself today lol 

1 hour ago, Kdug said:

I know Trilly is supposedly plugged in, but I don’t see any reason why Oats would leave Bama for OSU unless there’s a big pay increase. And any pay increase could easily be matched by Bama. Feels like that might just be a play by his agent to get a raise at Bama

I agree that I don’t see him leaving for Ohio St but I think if I were an Ohio St fan I would be thrilled to know we are at least reaching out and being told no first. Plus, Ohio St did the intelligent thing and ripped the band aid off so they could get a head start over other programs that are waiting because of fan/media backlash.

That choice could be the difference in getting a guy like Oats because they have more time to establish a relationship and negotiate and could always go back to boosters with a number Oats had in mind to secure his commitment. 

If I had to guess, I think they end up with either Sean Miller or Lamont Paris. 

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/news/decision-dossier-five-star-mikel-brown
 

FWIW, Rabby retweeted a post today from Adidas saying they signed this kid. 

Based on latest intel, we are the only Adidas school listed that he was planning on taking a visit too. 

1 hour ago, Hoosierfan1901 said:

Holtmann has been fired 

Lists like this give me hope IU can land a good coach. If schools like Ohio St and Louisville think guys like Muss, Oates, and McDermott can be plucked, I don’t see why we should think we have no chance and are wasting time even considering. 

IIRC, weve had a better previous 2 seasons than both. 

I don’t have anything meaningful to post but I just remembered that time that Maryland fans literally were crying and saying that our coaching staff was paying Joe Tipton under the table to host an IG live with DQ and Liam. 

Good times. 

22 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Coach Woodson is not listed here though.  I wonder whats up with that https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/

Or here https://frontofficesports.com/highest-paid-mens-college-basketball-coaches/

Or here https://fanbuzz.com/college-basketball/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/

I guess they didn’t care enough to update. But he’s paid $4.2 million currently. 
 

Based on those links, he’d be 1) Tied for 8th with Brad Underwood 2)9th in front of Bob Huggins 3) 9th in front of Huggins agaiN.

15 minutes ago, Indykev said:

You can't say roster construction is the issue while saying recruiting isnt an issue. Woodson is 1 get on 31 offers for the 2024 loaded class. Thats not good recruiting. Pulled 0 guards from the portal when you are desperate isnt good recruiting. agree with more everything else.

I get what you’re saying but I think as KDug just mentioned, there’s a difference between recruiting and roster construction. 

Woody has landed 3 talented players and established a relationship with the best high school in the country (Liam, Malik, Fino, maybe Queen). Liam is Woodsons third burger boy. We had more top 50 players visit campus this year than we have this decade. According to Trilly, we had Fland ready to announce IU until he had to push his formal announcement date back because of his high school coach. 

Yes, Woody is paying the price with the 2024 class with his “go big or go home” approach. I also just looked at the offers though and I don’t see any that we were in the lead for and screwed our selves with. I know the staff wanted Schwartz and Boeteng but they never got on campus and had others schools prioritizing them more. Maybe you could argue Mustaf but I know schools like NC State, Georgia Tech, and Maryland felt they were serious contenders too. Guys like Flory, Newell, and Harper got on campus but we all knew for a while wouldn’t end up here. 
 

I wouldn’t personally say his recruiting and landing talent to be a weakness as much as his ability is to have said talent complement each other and compile a roster that makes sense. 

18 hours ago, DC2345 said:

I’m not so sure about that 

Since you seem to have good connections, I’ll consider Beard/Pearl/Drew/Oats/Few etc as no shots. 
 

In addition to May/Shrews, do you think any of these guys would be possibilities: Shaka Smart, TJ Otzelberger, Greg McDermott, Mick Cronin, Porter Moser, Jerome Tang, Randy Bennett, Jamie Dixon, Mike White. 

15 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I brought up that example because based on your post it seems we still don't understand his value. I find it very difficult to see that we will go into the portal and find better handlers, more athletic, and a better IQ than TG. I think we can find guys that are better shooters. We aren't auto-better by TG going to the bench. I think you can be just fine adding a portal PG, another combo guard off the bench, and maybe even another guard. 

I'd rather see Queen/Reneau play together than have to see Cupps, Gunn, Banks operate offensively. 

Understand and respect your opinion, I think it’s fair to say Gallo doesn’t get the love or credit he deserves. I just think we have one of the worst backcourts in conference and I think it’s rather clear we need upgrades. Also, a guy coming off the bench doesn’t automatically mean he’ll have a much smaller roll or impact than a starter. Just like Kentucky, you can bring big impact guys off the bench (Dillingham, Sheppard) because they bring that extra juice and energy you need. 

I think pretty much anyone would agree that Queen/Reneau is a better combo than relying on guys who barely see the floor and make little to no impact already lol. 

12 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Wanting TG to go to the bench, but wanting more movement, balance, and speed seems contradictory. But what do I know, I do remember A TON of posters wanting TG to start OVER Kopp two years ago. 

 

Not sure what Kopp has to do with any of this because next year is a completely different roster build lol but I don’t think it’s contradictory to want Gallo to be a 6th man so that we can upgrade our perimeter scoring, ball handling, athleticism, and basketball IQ via the portal. 

Rabby apparently said himself Gallo told the staff earlier this season he would be fine with assuming said 6th man role next year if we got some dudes around him.

Also, Chris on BTB said Mac’s family doesn’t want him returning or transferring this off-season , just moving on to play pro. So I personally don’t want to see us struggle again out on the perimeter if we have to watch bully ball with Queen/Reneau for season 4. 

What concerns me the most about Woody is that everyone thought the biggest issue would be recruiting but he’s actually done quite well there (Ware, Mac, Fino, Reneau, Liam). Instead, the worst parts are his schemes and roster construction- things that you would assume he was brought here for due to his experience handling that at a higher level. 

I would feel better about the future if I knew for a fact Reneau and Liam were staying, Gallo was fine with being a 6th man if need be, and our staff was attacking the portal for guards. Also, adjusting our schemes to prioritize perimeter scoring and a balanced attack with speed and movement. 

I just struggle with having confidence in Woody that he can do that. We as fans have bitched and moaned for like 8+ years now about shooting and yet Archie, his leftover assistances (Hunter, Walsh) and Woody haven’t seen its importance until it’s been too late. Woody also talked about his former NBA teams and how much they shot beyond the arc and said we would do a 4 out 1 in once TJD left because we only played bully ball as a result of his skill set. Instead, we’re doing it just as frequently and we’re again getting exposed for our lack of balance and perimeter threats. 

I know some people say the fan base is toxic by asking for a new coach every 4 years or less. But it’s not the fans who decided to hire a mid major coach who made a couple deep tourney runs or a guy who has NBA coaching experience but none in college. If we had listened to the national media and allowed their opinions to form our decisions so we don’t look “toxic”, we would have ended up struggling with Archie for 2 more years and hired Alford afterward and been in a similar situation. 

Woody knew himself he was brought here as a short term hire and said he came here to “win championships”. To me, short term hires are made because of the confidence you have that someone can come in quickly and improve the situation. Not the case with Woody. Would have been interesting with Matta had he passed his physical. 

I would be more patient and understanding if we weren’t top 15-20 in game attendance, NIL donations, revenue, and social media presence. Objectively, we have way too many pieces for a coach to be successful. We’re also paying Woodson a top 10-15 salary. If it weren’t for us fans and our patience through all the ups and downs, we’d be a Georgetown/DePaul/Louisville. 

The only objective reason Woody should get another year is to reduce the amount of $ in his buyout so you can throw a Brad Stevens type offer for the next dream coach. If Woody and Dolson want to talk about how much they love this program, then they would honor that by having some self awareness and doing what we did with Allen and pull the plug before it gets even worse. 

Went to last nights game 

1 hour ago, ledies22 said:

who do you think makes those calls? Boosters are the reason for early terminations, and do you think Dolson made CMW hire without any backing from any booster?

If I understand an athletic directors role correctly, it’s Dolsons ultimate decision where that money goes.

I would have been urging caution with throwing all that $ at Woody because the next future coach and their agent will now be asking for that and more because they’ll argue they’ve accomplished far more than Woody and have far more collegiate coaching experience. Getting that “home run hire” now becomes more difficult than it already is…

I would have told the people donating $ that let’s use a portion of that money towards Woody (like a 100-150k bonus) to show support and confidence. But getting toasted in the round of 32 and 64 the year before shows how far we have to go, and our buck as a result, should go towards the collective good instead of an individual already being compensated appropriately for his accomplishments.

Use that remaining $ towards NIL, upgrading equipment/facilities, etc. Then when we’re at a stable place and actually a contender with a proven concept, feel free to throw a top 10-15 salary Woodson’s way. 

1 hour ago, mrflynn03 said:

Sampson and Oats make 4.5. Mussleman makes 4.2.

Not sure why someone's salary would make me vomit. It ain't my money. 

Sorry, I guess some some of these sites don’t update the numbers then. I definitely saw 4.1 or 4 for Muss. Regardless, 4.2 million still gets him within or near top 10 highest salaries. We’re not getting those types of results. The rest of those coaches are at least winning conference title(s) or going to the second weekend in March. 

It may not be your $ but it makes it easier for a booster to say “I’ll pass” on giving up their money for the next coach/buyout when they don’t have confidence Dolson can properly manage funds and make accurate evaluations. 

2 hours ago, Indykev said:

Look, Woodson isn't going anywhere(we all know that) no matter what happens unless he retires, which he isnt going to do getting $4.2 for not much effort. Dolson and Buckner(who isnt at games)is not going to pull the plug and say they were wrong. Lets hope we win every remaining game, next year, after we turnover 6 or 8 guys, lets hope the portal is good to us and next year is great. Go IU!!

If you wanna vomit, here’s a list of coaches apparently getting paid less than Woody:

Eric Mussleman, Nate Oats, Scott Drew, Tommy Lloyd, Greg Gard, Matt Painter, Kelvin Sampson, Mark Few, Shaka Smart, Rick Pitino, TJ Otzelberger, Jerome Tang, Porter Moser, Jim Larranaga, Leonard Hamilton, Greg McDermott, Dana Altman.