IUCrazy2

Look around, they are all expendable and always have been. Every coach will selectively push guys off the team when things aren't "working out". Every. Coach. All that this does is make it so you maybe don't have to force a guy out whose only transgression was not developing quick enough to keep a scholarship. In the old days, they got asked to leave. Now there is perhaps a way to avoid that. And I am more than happy to talk to a HS or AAU coach about this. "Hey, I thought that player had value and wanted to keep him on board. I also have to balance winning to keep my job. I found a way to make sure he stayed on the team and still had his school completely paid for." Isn't that an easier convo then, "Dude not cutting it so I had to cut him"?

Sure, but this isn't an apples to apples comparison. All that money you are making is solely connected to being where you are. The NIL benefit of being at Indiana does not move with you if you are off the team and end up at Ball State. This isn't even messing with your money, it is the company funding your salary in a different manner. Who are you to tell your employer what funds they can pull your salary from? Also, as you said, if you are not a fan of what is happening, there is the door. Really harsh lessons for some of these guys to learn but remember, it was student athletes who felt they should be able to get paid. Nobody at your business gives a sh*t about your feelings, they care about the bottom line. If messing with your money a little bit means adding an asset that will mean more to the bottom line, you're out of luck. The student athletes messed up a bit IMO. The vast majority of D1 athletes are not worth much through NIL outside of alumni wanting to keep a team together. And guy 10-13 on a bench is a dime a dozen. Most athletes gave up their security so that the Top 25 players each year could cash in. Unintended consequences.

A known short term employer that was going to be kicking me out the door in 4 to 5 years no matter what? Sure. All these guys are on borrowed time. For a guy on the end of the bench though, that is not what this is, it is getting his school paid. So let's keep the scenario the same. I am part of a research team as an undergrad. The research team is a pretty big deal and as part of that team, I am likely to have all sorts of connections that will help me get a job after school. The head of the program comes and tells me that they found a way to keep the most important piece of the team on for another year but they need to get them a scholarship to keep them here. They have found a way to pay for my school through investors, but it is not an official scholarship. They promise to give me the scholarship back next school year. They can understand my uneasiness with that, but the alternative is to yank the scholarship altogether and probably push me out of the program because the resources won't be there to keep me officially...and officially that guy/girl is more important to the success of the team than me. Personally, in that similar scenario, I take the money. School is still getting paid for and connection to a top research team is more important than a scholarship at a tier 2 research university. Let me make it more simple, you are Woodson and you are trying to put together a winner right now. You pull another guy from the portal thinking he will improve your team now and TJD is not coming back. TJD changes his mind. What do you think happens in that situation? Guy at the end of the bench is in the transfer portal the next day. If I am guy at end of bench and IU is where I really want to be, please give me that NIL deal so I am not forced to transfer to some MAC school.

Because that company values you as part of the team and doesn't want to be in the spot where the team has to choose between 2 players. And let's be real end of the bench guy, if the choice is you and pre-season All American candidate, you are going to be looking to transfer to a place that is very likely not a high D1 program. That is harsh as heck, but don't ask questions you don't want the answer to. This is not amateur ball anymore. It is some mutated hybrid of the pros and college ball.

Yes, I have brought this up on a few occasions and mostly got shot down. I think people have it a bit twisted on how this would work out. For one, I think your $10k figure for a guy like Leal or Duncomb (at the moment) is a little high. Probably cut that in about half if I had to guess. From there it is all economics. Based on money alone, I approach Leal. He is in state tuition so it would be cheaper than Duncomb. $135,766 is the value of a four year scholarship for an instate athlete at IU (this is based on 2014 numbers so probably closer to 150,000 now but I am just going by what I could find). It is roughly $100,000 more for out of state. https://iuhoosiers.com/news/2014/10/1/IU_Quantifies_the_Full_Value_of_an_Athletics_Scholarship#:~:text=For an out of state,room and board%2C and books. So to break that down it is roughly $34,000 (based on numbers in link above) to $37,500 (based on wild ass guess as to what it is now) in scholarship value a year. Add in the $5,000 to $10,000 in NIL (and I still say that $10k is probably high) and you are coming in below $50,000. You just do a deal or group of deals to make sure that a guy is not paying out of pocket. It is a one year deal for special circumstances and then you give him the scholarship back...or don't and you keep getting him the deal. At the end of the day the only reason to not want to take that is pride. How many Indiana kids would be willing to come and try what it is like to be in a high D1 program? We get you a $30k NIL deal to do charity work, you come and put some time in on the team, you and coaches can evaluate your chance to earn playing time down the road and it is of little cost to you. Why not have something like that available?

I have no idea on that, but I would assume that NCAA rules would be that you have to be considered a full time student which IIRC is at least 12 credits a semester at IU.

Probably so...but what if you are a guy that has no NIL money coming in anyway? I know you can't tie it to this or that and blah, blah but these are the types of loopholes that other programs look to exploit. We have a bunch of guys that barely have any NIL money rolling in. "Hey, player X, would really help the team if TJD came back, we are out of scholarships, but off the record, say I got you an NIL deal to cover all your expenses with some extra spending cash, would you be cool with being a 'walk on' for a year?" Sure, it is just mindless speculation, but if I am player X I probably say sure. Who cares where the money comes from? And yeah, I know the likelihood of this occurring is slim to none, but why not? From the letter of the law it is completely legal, why not exploit it.

Yes, you are all coming around to the dark side I suggested a week or two ago. Let TJD continue to do his thing, but recruit and accept like he is gone. If he decides to come back you either get him another NIL deal to cover the scholarship or you do that for one of the other guys who might be willing to (having discussed it with them already). A bunch of people did not like the idea of taking a scholarship away, but to me, if they are willing, who cares who is paying for your school as long as it gets paid.

I went back and read and yeah, I did not catch what you were trying to say the first time. That's on me, apologies boiler dude.

NIL does level the playing field back to us because we weren't doing the Kansas/Duke/Kentucky/UNC shht. However, we have maintained a fanatic and fairly loyal fanbase over the past 20 years of mediocre results (for us). We have a big alumni base that supports the program, that can now include with $$$$ legally. You can cry and bith and moan about that but it is the rules now. Any school/coach not taking advantage of that fact is stupid and/or extremely derelict at doing their job w.r.t. their athletic programs.

Not taking that bait. We have a nice class coming next year. If we keep recruiting like this, it should translate to wins. And that is what we all want.

The Big Ten is going to need to change the way they allow games to be called.

Compared to you and I, sure. I don't think landing at a power conference school necessarily means you are some great basketball mind. Often it means you were at the right place and time and were a hot name. "Great" is not flaming out at Indiana. "Great" is winning multiple titles. Winning 70%+ of your games. Maybe it is the word "great" that I am taking issue with or have a different definition for. Full stop, I think if given the chance, there are a whole bunch of coaches out in D1 who could have done as well or better than Archie Miller did here.

Great basketball minds is not a statement I would make about either of those guys.

2 of those coaches got fired for underperforming and the jury is still out on the third. We were one half away from people feeling a whole lot different about this season then ended up happening for the third's first year. I wouldn't use Miller or Crean as support for good coaching decisions. I don't mind playing around 10 guys and I know you tell me I am wrong, but I felt far too often we had lineups on the floor this year, even for a short amount of time, that I absolutely hated.

That is more likely. If you were worried about keeping it quiet you go to some back room up in Carmel or something.

If you wanted it quiet why would you have the public meeting at that location? It would be like one of Matt Painter's assistants going to Nick's to have a "secret" meeting with Phinissee about coming to Purdue.

You can keep UConn away with NIL and continuing to be competitive I think. Yes, get the best players from wherever, but if you have arguably the best program in the country sniffing around someone in your backyard, that is a pretty good indication that 1)they are probably one of those best players from anywhere and 2)being an instate prospect they should get a heavy push.

The ladies have been doing really well as of late. Good players are attracted to winners. Be nice to lockdown the state and keep these girls from going somewhere else first. Think there is a girl over in Noblesville who just committed to Connecticut.... Just keep winning and the players will want to be part of it.

That article leaves me with the same feeling as when he left. He wasn't all in here, he was too stubborn to make necessary changes to how his teams played, and he just wasn't a good fit for the job.

Normally, I would not be either. My preference would be that you fill up your 13 scholarships and then you get a guy or two who would normally be considered a project and use NIL to act like a scholarship for them. Take that Sean East kid who was on Romeo's HS team. He is now the JC player of the year and has teams like Kentucky looking at him (not sure how serious...but at least interested enough to take the time to look). Or the Sparks kid from Ball State. Guys where you think, there may be something there but not enough for me to lock down with a scholarship. So instead you pay them to work for a charity and they end up getting that money anyway. The case I mentioned would be a special one year deal if you filled the rest of the scholarships and Trayce found no where else to go. I know it feels kind of cut throat. Not the way I wanted things to go. That being said, the players asked for this environment. There is going to be an expectation of a return on the money they are getting paid now just like any other athlete on a team that pays them to be there. On a related note, if Race and Trayce both end up moving on, whomever announced that NIL deal with them before knowing they were sticking around wasted money that would have been available for a new recruit or someone already on the team. I know you "can't tie the money to being on the team", but come on Indiana folks...wise up.

Could do that too... I will leave it at that.

Because of taking Leal's scholarship or just the idea of using NIL to get extra players in general? To me, if school is getting paid either way, then enh...does it really matter if you are "scholarship" or not?

Yeah, but he can't play of they do that. I was just thinking of getting creative with NIL. Like maybe you have a guy or two who could develop into something but you don't want to use a scholarship on them. Just set them up with an NIL deal that is enough money to cover tuition, room, and board.

Fill the spot and if Trayce cannot get drafted where he wants, give hime Leal's scholarship and then find Leal a NIL deal that covers tuition and living expenses. Bada bing, bada boom. (I wonder what the rules are on that, you could easily have 15 players all having their school paid for even if you only have 13 scholarships.)