Zuckerkorn

48 minutes ago, btownqb said:

the terms "basketball" school and "football" school, make me cringe

You have to admit that Purdue defines what a "Chancre School" is...😄

29 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I would say the observation is off base. 

We've had several others whose recruitments went down to the wire or at least through the recruit taking several visits. Zeller, TJD, Thomas Bryant, Galloway and Leal took some time, Robert Johnson, James Blackmon Jr, and I'm sure there many more. 

Can't speak for 5F but, it seems more common with higher ranked out of state recruits.  I assume we have a baked-in advantage on Indiana kids (or should).  Of course the competition for elite players is always going to be stiffer and our percent of success will be lower.  It's one of Archies failures that he didn't bring in much talent from beyond the state line - Dawson Garcia was the epitome of that lack of success.

7 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

IU usually lands recruits early in the process.  The longer it goes with someone we target, the less likely it seems that we land them.  Romeo was an exception, but i firmly believe the issues at UL made that possible.

Be interested in hearing opinions or theories on why it is that we lose out more often than not when there is a long courtship.

Or, is my observation off base?

Your assessment seems spot on to me.  I can't explain why it seems to happen so often though.

3 minutes ago, MoyeCowbell said:

I really don't see a "lot" of people turning on Coach Woodson at this juncture. He has -- and is, building momentum in a positive way. What is frustrating to witness (for me) is the notion that everything must be linear, meaning the trajectory must be smooth from point A to point B. Like life itself, that doesn't happen. There are ups and downs, but they don't always paint the full picture.

The "downs" cause many to look for the next shiny thing, be it Dusty May, Caleb Love, Chris Ledlum, Dalton Knecht, etc... The skills/outlook/approach/whateveryouwanttocallit that this staff was able to use to recruit JHS, TJD (yes, to keep him here), Malik, Bates, etc. didn't suddenly evaporate because Ledlum and others chose different schools.

Sometimes we miss out on players. Shit happens. Not every decision has to be a comprehensive indictment on the staff and program itself.

I fully agree that CMW has the program on an upward trjectory.  Maybe the slope is a little flatter than we'd prefer, but the steady improvement has been there.  

We saw this past season we weren't ready to push teams like KU or AZ. I think the concern is if we take a step or two back next season - not that it doesn't happen to most teams, but there's a deja vu feeling to it. 

Just now, btownqb said:

4 on 4 ... I mean they still had to guard him.

Unfortunately, Miller's effectiveness/importance, whatever... greatly diminished when XJ went out. 

Absolutely.  Kopp was really left as the only threat without XJ.  I don't mean to denigrate Miller by any means - loved his effort and attitude.  He played darn good D despite not being overly athletic.

Ultimately, I believe, Woodson wants to spread things out and have threats inside, midrange, and on the perimeter (wouldn't every coach?). 

To this point we've replaced Race & Trayce with Ware/Reneau/Sparks.  JHS with XJ.  And TBD on Kopp.  Likely TJD won't be replaced with equal production.

How things shake out roster-wise, style of play-wise, and individual player improvement-wise is yet to be determined.  Thus far I'm not overly excited - lots of work to be done.

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

Not to get into some positional back and forth, but there is a difference between a sharpshooter and bucket-getters/creators, especially with this fanbase. 

When many Indiana fans say "sharpshooter" they're thinking of a certain type of player. Guys like Matt Roth and Nick Zeisloft for example. Would I take those guys? Sure. But that's not the biggest need. I love Zeisloft in his two years at IU, but a Zeisloft is easy to guard when he's not surrounded by guys like Yogi, Thomas Bryant, Troy Williams, Robert Johnson and James Blackmon Jr. 

The biggest need on this roster right now are guards/wings that are three-level scorers that can create, beat guys off the dribble and finish or create, and make things happen. Not spot up 3pt shooters and that is the distinction I was drawing. 

Agree on the freshmen point, we have solid young players, we need proven guys to add to the roster at this point. 

Semantics aside, the issue is scoring.  Preferrably via multiple "prongs".  I agree about catch & shoot, easily guardable shooting specialists.  I greatly appreciate what Miller Kopp brought, but there were times I wanted to pull my hair out when he'd go to "his corner" and wait for the ball - it felt like playing 4 against 5 at times.  Multi-dimensional scorers are ideal, for sure.  But, there will be times when we'll need to get 3's and currently only XJ and Gallo have shown any real ability to do that.

11 hours ago, BGleas said:

Yup, and we need bucket getters way more then we need sharpshooters. 

Call 'em whatever you want - sharpshooters, creators, or magicians.  All I know is we lost the lion's share of our offense from last season (and really weren't a high-pwered offense then).  It has to be made up for somehow. I'd guess Kopp, Thompson, and Bates accounted for a huge chunk of our 3-pt makes.  We need some threat from outside to keep defenders "honest".

Freshman major contributors are rare.  Hoping a returning player makes huge strides is a bit of a gamble.  The portal is a prime resource for bolstering areas of need and has thus far failed to bear fruit for us in the much needed area of scoring.

There's time left for sure and the roster is still a work in progress but feeling no concern or sense of urgency seems like "whistling past the graveyard".

2 hours ago, btownqb said:

Not really interested in a guy that can only shoot, though. 

We were a Top 50 3pt shooting team this past year. I want guys that can create for themselves, for others, but also shoot the 3 ball. 

So, as things stand today, who's that gonna be?  XJ? TG?  Those are the closest I can think of.

51 minutes ago, btownqb said:

I'm gunna be real with ya Bob, I don't think we are adding more than 1 guy 1-3. Could be wrong, though. 

To me... it's Ellis or Cormac or Cleveland. Realistically that's how I see it. Now.. add a (fingers crossed) Ledlum to one of those, I really like that. 

Edit--- I don't think we will take 2 wings. MAYBE Ellis and a wing. Goodness that would be a portal haul-- Ellis, Ware, Sparks, and a wing that we like. 

You may be correct.  If the one additional guy doesn't bring reliable shooting ability, I'll be borderline PO'd.  Hoping that a returning player miraculously becomes that sharpshooter over the off season does not bring me much joy (or confidence).

I hope we're focused on s-h-o-o-t-i-n-g for the time being.

12 minutes ago, Beamerball said:

Rabby pouring some water on Knecht. Said he needs to make some calls but isn't sure if he is going to take more visits or if he is not. 

Obviously, if not, we aren't going to land him. 

From reading various (non-IU) message boards, Knecht's name is mentioned a lot.  It appears he's very much a hot commodity, at least among fans.  He's the player I'm most wishful for.

When FB has a 53 point, 31 rebound game he can then be mentioned in the same breath Big George....  That's rarified air.

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

This is how I see the next two days playing out. All of us are going to be projecting lineups thinking all 3 of these guys will commit the next few days. Then two hours after the OV are over we all panic when no verbals are announced. 

1 hour ago, Hoosier987 said:

I agree with your statement and maybe I’m misunderstanding but in regards to Sean Miller and Xavier, Travis Steele was fired. 

No, I misread and thought you were characterizing all changes as the same.  I overlooked the part about "fired their previos coach".

3 hours ago, Hoosier987 said:

Listen…I’m a CMW fan and have stated that and I’m excited to see what he can do this portal season before asking questions but let’s not pretend that he inherited a mess from Archie. Hell, he inherited an All-Big Ten player (at that time) in TJD and helped develop him into a first team All American. Did he inherit a great situation? No…but neither did Sean Miller. Very rarely do coaches inherit a good situation when they’re coming to a school who fired their previous coach. Again, we had a nice win against Xavier, but they made it deeper in the tournament…good for them and by many accounts they seem to be sitting pretty next year. I’m hoping with Woodson’s coaching ability and connections that we get there next year…it will be year 3.

I struggled with an alternative to the term "mess", but recruiting was in the toilet and the offense and especially defense he had been using were a flop.  Woodson had to completely wipe that packline crap out of the returning players' heads.  Mess is probably too strong but it seems everything about the program (except behavior problems and academics) was off-track.  Coaching changes aren't all the same.  Replacing a coach that resigned to go to another school is much different than replacing a guy who failed.

16 hours ago, Hoosier987 said:

I lol’d but then quickly realized their first year coach took them farther in the tournament and are predicted to be top 25 next year in just about every pre-season poll.  But hell, at least we beat them early in the season before they got their system in place. 

Big brother didn't inherit little brother's "mess"....

4 minutes ago, Between2Halls said:

Get off our lawn!

Hell, get off our NUTS!

Like Scott, I went from reluctant to supportive of bringing in CL.  If he's off our board, OK.

It's possible MW made his pitch/offer and asked for a decision and the player wasn't willing to commit, so we bowed out not wanting to play the limbo game.

HSN posters sitting quietly with a posey in hand, slowly pulling off petals while whispering "he loves me....he loves me not...."

1 hour ago, btownqb said:

Cupps buries his first two jumpshots. He's been all over the court the first 5-6 mins of this game. He looks like Galloway, but elevates when he shoots. 

I'd like to see what his wing span is too. 

Simeon has really taken Centerville out of sorts offensively. 

Cupps has taken two charges in the first half. I like the Powell kid more than I originally thought, as well. First game Centerville has played with a shot clock. Not sure if they play with one in ILL or not. Simeon is LONG. 

 

watch the 2nd half later. 

I did notice that GC seems to have a significant wingspan.  That and he wipes the bottom of his shoes a lot - maybe the two are related.?

10 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

True.  I’m sure our staff is making a lot of calls and studying various players.  But just because you make a call doesn’t mean the guy is a priority.  Of course every player makes it sound like all the schools are hot after them even though they may just be plan Z.  But it creates wild speculation scenarios.  

Having said that, it sure looks like our staff is working really hard doing their due diligence.   There are so many moving parts with NIL, class balance, player evaluations, assessing fit, and assembling complimentary parts.

For fans, it’s fun to imagine various scenarios and cope with losing in the tourney while others are still playing.

It can be as fun as baseball hot stove or NFL/NBA free agency.  We’ve lost the old way of doing business and we are in a “pro” culture now.   And I’m fine with that working both ways (JG, LD, TB).

 

Now with NIL, citing interest from many other schools is a wise business/negotiating tactic....

1 minute ago, IUFLA said:

I thought the same thing...His shot selection was, in my mind, poor...But I did like other parts of his game...

Just not sure he's going to be the contributor some think right off the bat...

Agree.  I had to chuckle when the announcers brought up Damon Bailey when speaking about Cupps, but to their credit they did acknowedge he might not be the scorer Damon was...lol.

3 minutes ago, Henryville Hoosier said:

Good luck young man. 

I believe an additional year would have been beneficial, but they call it professional basketball for a reason.  Get wealthy, young man.

Now that another roster spot is officially available, let's get a solid replacement!

Last evening was the first time I've seen GC play and it was a "split decision" for me.  The good part is that it's clear he's active on both ends and has that "floor general" vibe about him.  It's also pretty obvious that he's had good coaching and learned from it.

Obviously his shooting performance was unimpressive.  Maybe just an off night or perhaps the result of playing against a highly athletic opposing team.

It made me think of the only time I ever saw Perea play before suiting up in C&C - it was a similar HS national tournament.  That was when I realized the guy (HP) was an extraordinary athletic with little basketball skill (likely due to subpar coaching).  GC is kind of the opposite but will likely need time to adjust and get stronger.

5 minutes ago, btownqb said:

Woodson coached JR Smith. 

Caleb Love fits really well with XJ, TG, Sparks, Cupps, and (Shedrick 🙏)

1 minute ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Yeah, CMW has experience with egos and prima donnas. 

These are very good observations, IMO.