tdhoosier

3 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

 

Throw in the fact that some tried to spread a false rumor that there would not be enough supply for those who needed it for lupus or arthritis,  and it's evident that some are not acting on the interest of saving lives.  And, that's disgusting.

 

 

My friend is a pharmacist in TN and I heard directly from him that he was having a hard time securing chlorquine for his patients. It wasn't a rumor in his particular case. 

40 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

So I'm slimy because I choose to believe the experts that say having a respiratory disease circulating the population for months is irresponsible and our actions likely counterproductive?

It's not that I dont care about the people suffering from this, but I also am concerned for the 10's of millions who's livelihoods are disrupted or destroyed forever.  It's called cost/benefit analysis.

Not calling you slimy, but now when I re-read I understand how you came to that conclusion. My apologies for not being clearer.

Let me retry that sentence: I think, as you probably do, most politicians are slimy.   .....Not that you they are 'as slimy as you". 

Look, I will disagree with you but won't result to name calling. Really did not intend for it to come across that way. 

18 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't think it's population control either.  But, I do get tired of people trying to criticize how the U.S. responded.  Every country in the world was delayed in responding because of how China tried to cover this up.  That's a fact.

I'm just saying it's these type of conspiracy theories that divert our attention away from are ability to be critical. I hear everybody about Monday Morning quarterbacking. Many countries had their failure and there's plenty of blame to go around. But the reason for those Monday morning film sessions are learn from mistakes. If we can't honestly analyze and learn from our failures we will have a hard time digging our way out of this. 

Edit: the conspiracies I'm referring to are population control and other ones floating around. I'm not disagreeing on China. 

17 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I don't think we can even remotely attach an accurate mortality rate to this.  The fact that many people who have the virus never show symptoms or have very minor symptoms separates it from the flu.  You know when you have the flu, so it is much easier to attach numbers to it/  That's not the case here.

As far as the U.S., and, for that matter, the world's reaction to the virus, we need to back the blame game up just a little bit.  In hindsight, was it slower than it needed to be?  Yes.  That's an easy call in hindsight.  But, when you have China doing everything possible to cover this up, and WHO making statements in mid to late January that there is no evidence of human to human transmission, what exactly should we expect? 

It's pretty doggone hard to make the 'right' decisions when 90% of the information you need is being withheld.  Or, even worse, you're given false and misleading information.    

 

I completely understand that as more numbers come in the actual death rate is going to change. Right now a death rate of 1% seems to be the general consensus, so whether it goes up to 1.5% or down to .7%, either way it's pretty deadly. Look, we had it killing 10 people/day in the third week of March and by April 7th it surpassed Heart Disease as the number 1 cause of death on April 7th when it killed over 1,800 people and it's been climbing since. And that's with a majority of deaths coming from just one city.  I agree we can't be 100% accurate right now when stating the actual death rate. But when people say it's not as deadly as we think when comparing it to the seasonal flu or other 'common viruses', and then use that bit of inaccurate info to propagate a conspiracy theory about population control then I don't agree with their general premise.

5 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

@tdhoosier

I do not at all disagree about it being very contagious, which is why I dont think it is as deadly as we are being told.  

As for the "conspiracy theory"  maybe the governor of michigan shouldn't restrict people from buying garden seeds or from going fishing in a boat.  Or the mayor of LA shouldn't  offer rewards to people for snitching on others.  Or the talking drones in Elizabeth, NJ.  I believe at this point, governments are just seeing what they can get away with. 

Because of politicians just love pissing off their constituents? And they love losing money in their retirement accounts by shutting down the economy. Look, I think for the most part many politicians are as slimy as you. But they are slimy because of self preservation. This is the exact opposite of self preservation. The motive doesn’t add up IMO. 

Regarding deaths, it seems pretty deadly to me. Did you see this interactive graph last week relating COVID19 deaths to other diseases? 

31 minutes ago, mrflynn03 said:

I really dont understand why people are acting like this thing is fundamentally different than other viruses.  The industry I work in deals with avian flu almost annually.  Thank god it isn't transmissible to humans because it acts just like what this article describes.

https://nypost.com/2020/04/12/the-coronavirus-can-travel-at-least-13-feet-new-study-shows/amp/

If this thing is as widespread and contagious as they say then we should be experiencing much higher mortality rates.

I'm more convinced everyday that this has become an experiment in population control. 

This virus is different from other virus in the same way a German Shepard is different from a Poodle. They’re both dogs, they both share the same characteristics, they both have similar behavior traits, but they’re different types of dogs. 

COVID19 and the flu are fundamentally the same because they are both viruses; they spread similarly and both exhibit the same symptoms. I don’t see that anybody is disputing this. COVID19 is different because it’s 2x more contagious than the flu and the symptoms are delayed. That fact that people unknowingly spread it is it’s most dangerous trait.

And we are experiencing higher mortality rates than the flu. It’s 10x more deadly. 

It didn’t have to be this way. If our elected officials and federal agencies acted on this back in January when they were getting numerous warnings; the social distancing wouldn’t have to be on this scale. If they weren’t ‘blind’ to the virus and had a way to test/track it sooner, then they could have shut specific cities where clusters were present, rather than the whole country. They had 2 months to prepare, but didn’t act until it was too late. This is going to go down in history as one of the most epic failures. Nothing like a good conspiracy theory about ‘population control’ to distract us from this very fact. 

24 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

I'm less concerned with the death rate itself and more concerned with the number of deaths, whether they are trending up or down, and deaths as a percentage of the population.  The actual death rate is simply going to be impossible to determine.  We simply are not going to know how many people had it because of the lack of testing and the fact that people without symptoms are simply not typically going to receive a test even though they may have had the disease. And, factor in people that may have actually had this in January and February and there is no way to come close to a true death rate.

In the end, let's say the U.S. ends up with about 60,000 deaths.  That's a big number and nothing to ignore.  But, instead of just blasting that number in a fear inspiring headline, would it really hurt the media to have a headline that says 'U.S. Percentage of Deaths Compares Favorably to Rest of World'.

I'm not going to hold my breath that we will see that. 

   

Fauci just said they are looking at an antibody test to come out in a few weeks to show who has had it. So, at least there’s that. But a “few week’s” lately has meant: “hopefully a few weeks, but realistically a few months”. 

53 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

Mile, that's just not true. I've been a subscriber to NYT for over a decade. They routinely cover the entire world, including the Midwest and the South. If anything they are light on local coverage for those of us who live in NYC. That's one of the frustrating things for us as NYT subscribers. We have to read Gothamist, or the NY Post to get local news - it's weird.

Just a quick search for the term "rural" gives me over a dozen articles in the last week from the NYT about how COVID-19 is affecting rural areas. Some really good articles too. The article about the funeral in GA was especially well done.

I'm an Indiana kid. Born in IN, raised in IN, graduated HS in IN, and also graduated from IU Bloomington. I know there's this sense that the east coast doesn't care about the rest of the country, but it's not the case in reality. Hell, many of us that live here are from the Midwest!

I'm not going to argue about the media on here though, b/c I know we can't do politics.

It's just sad that the number of actual people who are dying (these are real people with families) are starting to be used to score political points. We as a country failed to get a jump on this and we will be the country with the most cases and deaths when this is all over. This is disheartening to me as we have the resources for the opposite outcome.

 

I can get into a long back and forth about the media. By nature, I like to be devil's advocate and I have to catch myself because I know it's annoying to others. But this side to my personality comes out in the news I choose to consume. I have my belief system just like anybody else, but I look for news sources to challenge it because I sincerely want to understand the different points of view. Most of my news is consumed through podcasts and probably the informative and 'level' podcasts out there is NYT's The Daily Podcast. Some of you may read NYT and run for the hills, but the host is very good at questioning without bias. 

15 minutes ago, Reacher said:

Maybe Dr Birx has less of an agenda then a US Senator or some website?  In her words, they are being "very liberal" with the definition.  Before you attack Greg Price, I swear I have never heard of him before I found his tweet and personally am not even on Twitter. 

 

I'm confused. Didn't the origination of the argument stem from reporting NON COVID19 deaths as COVID19 deaths?

Dr. Brix just said "If someone dies with COVID19, we are counting that". She explained that they are 'very liberal' in comparison to other countries. If somebody had an underlying heart issue (for example) and the virus acted as a "gas pedal to death" (my analogy) then the cause of death is COVID 19. Other countries are reporting that just as a heart issue. 

I'm not sure there is some underlying conspiracy; just a difference in how numbers are collected and reported. I actually think what is described by Dr. Brix is a more accurate representation because technically nobody dies from the virus; they die from heart failure or kidney failure or pneumonia......things COVID19 either causes or accelerates. If you start picking and choosing how close or far a deceased patience was to death before infection then your numbers are going to be subjective and open for interpretation.  Counting every death with a positive COVID test is conclusive.

...Not trying to be an expert, just how i understand it. 

2 hours ago, Drroogh said:

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I think here works.

TV Characters you would HATE to be quarantined with!

Jonah Ryan from Veep is the best “annoying tv show character” ever.

22 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

But can he hedge out 35' and recover back to the basket quickly enough.   , I kid i kid.  Great pickup.  We need 4 year role players with heart and motor

That's exactly what I hope he can do, above anything else. Well, maybe not at 35' out but Virginia gets caught in hedges that far out at times, but their bigs are quick back to the paint and the defense seems to recover.  

3 minutes ago, Lostin76 said:

There are tons of clinical trials ongoing right now for drugs and treatments and a bunch for this drug. It looks like a clinical trial in Sweden was halted early by the DSMB b/c of seizures and vision problems. Vision problems are a common side effect.

I talked to one of our docs who just came off the ward. He's not too hopeful about chloroquine and says there are too many side effects including cardiovascular problems. He's a cardiologist and won't use it.

I also don't think it's necessarily political. But I do think there are really desperate politicians searching for a silver bullet to get us out of this mess. I would love for a drug or treatment, any drug or treatment, to show promise and a quick cure/solution. I'm sure we all would. But in reality, I think it will probably be a menu of hard choices and difficult personal choices over many months until we come out of this.

Interesting, I did hear a doctor on TV say that he wouldn't give it to patients with arrhythmia. Also, because it's an immunosuppressant, he said that in his opinion it'd be irresponsible to give to old people with compromised immune systems. 

Regarding Hydroxychloroquine, I just find it amazing that everybody has turned into a scientist, doctor or pharmacist overnight. Whether it's reporters, politicians, economists or just people in general. This is getting a little silly. 

I don't buy that this is political either. Peter Navarro who is an economist in Trump's administration just said this morning there is a debate with in the White House about this drug....a debate amongst everybody who is on the same side politically. It's not political; it's weighing risk vs. reward when nobody has any conclusive proof of the drug's side effects or its success. The facts are that it may have harmed some patients, it may have helped some patients or it might not have done anything at all. This is all anybody really knows right now and to suggest otherwise is not truthful. 

It's not an easy call. There's valid points on both sides of the issue. It's expected that there'd be some disagreement in this scenario. 

I don't have an opinion either way because I'm not an expert and I'd rather have the experts figure this out. I'd also rather listen to experts as @Lostin76 suggested. Listen to the scientists, not the pundits or politicians. 

22 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Helps lupus patients. Once the word spread though it also helps with Covid19 people made a run on supplies. Luckily my sister got a 3 month supply in  early March. She called last week to inquire and her pharmacist said doubtful she could fill anytime soon....this was in Illinois.

That’s gotta be scary for people who actually need the medication.

I hope we can find a medication that will help the treatment of COVID, but this and vaccines are going to take time. Placebo effect is real. Side effects are real. It’s a bit frustrating because we could hypothetically stop this disease in its tracks by not going anywhere for 10 days, but there are always going to be people who just can’t adhere to the recommended guidelines. Sheltering in place for 10 days is quicker than any drug trial. 

Seriously the next person who tells me they aren’t afraid of getting it I want to punch in the face. It’s not about contracting it, it’s about spreading it. I’m simply amazed that people still can’t get this concept. We’re not be asked to storm the beach in Normandy. We’re just being asked to stay at home. 

Sorry, every now and then I get the urge to vent. 

38 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Some info for all on the CARES Act / Payroll Protection Program (PPP), and SBA's Interim Final Rule. Just info, please don't take as legal advice. Thanks.

PPP--Fact-Sheet.pdf 223.27 kB · 1 download

PPP Information Sheet attached. Gives a general overview of the PPP, with links. Note, the "All businesses" with 500 or few employees can apply statement is misleading. There are specific exclusions such as for lenders, in the Code of Federal Regulations, as confirmed in the SBA's Interim Final Rule. The SBA field offices are following the Interim Final Rule, at this point. 

Here's a link to the Interim Final Rule. https://content.sba.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/PPP--IFRN FINAL.pdf

The PPP program overview begins at III on pg. 4. Information for Borrower eligibility begins at III (2), page 5. Ineligibility discussion begins at III(2)(b) on page 7. the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) identifies businesses that are ineligible at 13 CFR 120.110, as noted on page 8.

The application window opened today. SBA lenders are swamped and there is a cap on funding, even though it's a lot of money. If you / your business wants to request a loan under the PPP, you should get your application in ASAP. Btw, a number of SBA approved lenders remain confused, the SBA's guidance is not the best.

I also learned, from my bank at least, that you have to be a customer to get the loan. Then I heard on the news you can’t go to any bank. If you have no existing business at a bank they’re not going to loan to you because their afraid of fraud...you need that existing relationship. 

Anybody watch The Scheme on HBO yet about the FBI investigation into the NCAA pay for play? Worth the watch?

You can watch JFK the movie and come to a lot of conclusions. Or you can watch a History Channel show that explains the mystery of the 'magic bullet'  (for example) is not really a mystery - it was a clear shot. The movie overlooked the fact that the back seat was elevated up higher than the front seat. When they leave out this bit of info it looks like the bullet's trajectory wasn't straight.  This one tiny thing (a matter of inches) can plant the seed of doubt.

By asking more questions than you are answering and/or sources leave out bits of confirmed fact (whether intentional or overlooked) to fit an agenda you can make you can easily make people question that most rational conclusion. When that happens conspiracies are born.

It's natural for human imaginations to run wild when the conclusions aren't being produced to their satisfaction. 

17 minutes ago, rico said:

Pick a theory...

https://listverse.com/2020/03/12/top-10-crazy-conspiracy-theories-surrounding-the-chinese-coronavirus/

I’d like to add that while people love a good conspiracy theory, how many on a scale of this magnitude have ever proven to be true? The holocaust didn’t exist? Somebody else killed JFK? 911 was an inside job? Bigfoot? The loch-ness monster? The supposed mind control facility in Alaska?

1 hour ago, Seeking6 said:

I'm really curious what's going to be available. My wife and I are both self employed (LLC/Sole Practitioner). Without getting into specifics in terms of income or expenses...I really hope there's something for us who don't have a payroll. If not I guess that's the deal....we've always lived pretty frugal but I wouldn't mind knowing there's some help for people like us if ever needed. 

 

Wouldn’t this count? Per document:

Quote

For Sole Proprietors, Independent Contractors, and Self-Employed Individuals: The sum of payments of any compensation to or income of a sole proprietor or independent contractor that is a wage, commission, income, net earnings from self-employment, or similar compensation and that is in an amount that is not more than $100,000 in one year, as pro-rated for the covered period.

Take your average monthly wages or however you pay yourself x 2.5. 

*This is why I use an accountant.

The site crashed yesterday so a lot of people seem to be taking advantage. 

Just now, DWB said:

I thought 300k was too optimistic as well, but I sure hope you're wrong on 1-2M. (you probably are not, but I hope you are wrong)

Me too, me too. 

6 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah man, it's rough. My wife is a one-woman shop and lost all her clients (today actually) because of this. I don't envy anyone that has to worry about other people on top of themselves. 

For all those who are small business owners or have spouses that are, make sure to look at the relief available to us through the stimulus package. 

This basically calculates out to a loan that is 2.5 x your average monthly payroll (feb 2019 - Jan 2020) plus other qualifying expenses, which will be forgiven if you retain your employees. Free money to keep small business owners afloat while paying themselves and their employees. Obviously run it past an accountant to make sure it’d apply in your situation. 

https://www.uschamberfoundation.org/sites/default/files/C3_COVID_EmergencyLoanGuide.pdf

tagging @Hoosierhoopster @mrflynn03

15 minutes ago, DWB said:

A little context for virus...

Just saw some charts on the number of cases in Europe, specifically Italy, Spain, France, etc and the USA.

Dr Birx stated in a recent presser that the US is about 5 times the size of Italy (in population). Italy has about 110k cases and a horrible death rate. The US has about 125K cases (so far), and the number will go up with more testing. But it seems like our hunkering down is having a positive effect.

Our curve has not peaked, but in my mind I think we're mitigating a lot of cases that would have been much worse than they already are. Hopefully, we can stay under 300K cases. We'll see.

Unfortunately those numbers aren’t realistic at this point. 125k cases is old info. The real time numbers Already has it up to 189k right now. We’ll be up to 300k by Friday. This is still going up at a fast rate and not expected to peak until another 2-3 weeks. We’re Probably looking at closer to 1-2 million cases. 

2 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Addiction relapses are up...

And I think that's just the tip of the mental health iceberg we're facing...

I'm not unsympathetic to the plight of individuals who contract COVID-19 at all, but we'd better balance this out or it'll be worse than having the pandemic run its course unabated...

It's also important to remember that the alternative would also bring depression, drug addiction, etc. There's no way to know exactly how many lives social distancing will ultimately save, but it will be a lot. And losing a loved one also triggers mental health problems. Not to mention the PTSD that is likely to follow for our frontline healthcare workers. 

3 minutes ago, Billingsley99 said:

This challenge does look amazing actually.  My wife and oldest son are hooked so I have seen my fair share of it as well as Jersey Shore. 

The fact that they need to have won in an elimination round just to make it to the finals is awesome this season. 

I'm writing this knowing full well any reputation I've built up on this board will come crashing down with the following admission...

MTV's Challenges are my favorite thing to watch on TV. 

It's pure trash, but entertaining trash and I look forward to every season. One of my friends has been trying to get me into a fantasy challenge league for the last 3 years. I just might do it for this new season which is starting on Wednesday if I haven't already missed the draft.  #wes4life