btownqb Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 Just now, 5fouls said: It's been a one-sided rivalry in basketball for a few years now. Would like to see their program get back to where it was 20-30 years ago to liven things up again. The grade above me at CT (2008).. was a really good team/class.. since then they haven't had much. Week 2 football next year will be a war down there though between them and us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: I can only speak for me, and I haven't lived in Indiana since 1980... But, the one class basketball tournament used to be part of Indiana's identity. It wasn't just known within the state, it was the subject of national dialogue. You cite distance, well yeah...it was a regional thing. You played every team within close proximity in the sectional and went from there. The small schools beating big schools for a sectional championship was talked about for years in that community. And there was always 2 or 3 that made it to the regional or semi-state... Loogootee, Jac-Cen-Del, Scottsburg... In the 80s, I use to have my Mom record the final 4 every year and send me the tapes. Did it for 15 years or so I guess... Lost interest when they broke into classes... You're right in saying it'll never return... But there was a romanticism to it... I was a sophomore in 1987 and we won the New Castle sectional for the first time since 1958. The next week at school there were more time spent in the gym for pep sessions than we were in class. We might have went overboard because we lost the first game of the regional to Rushville a team we beat by 20 in the last game of the season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 The one thing about class basketball, you'll never have David slaying Goliath again...I think they made a whole basketball movie about that... Just David vs David... And that's not much of a story... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: Were the gyms packed when Knightstown had losing seasons? My point is that the crowds Knightstown has had nothing to do with the class system, it was because the team was good. I was at the game in the video below from 3 years ago. #1 vs. #1, standing room only. That same matchup last season, the gym was about 30% full. Why? Because neither team was as good. The game 3 years agio had Leal, Kaufmann-Renn, Jacobi, etc. the game last year didn't. Same schools, 2 years apart. One game was must see, the other wasn't. Class basketball had nothing to do with it. Just stating that even though I prefer one class I see that the multi class can be as enjoyable. Even though instead of going to New Castle we had to drive to Alexandria for the sectionals and regionals we packed the gym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: The fact that Lafayette Jeff won 29 straight sectionals is an indictment against one-class basketball. It's a clear indicator that the bigger 'city' schools have a built-in advantage that is extremely difficult for the smaller county/country schools to overcome. Of course they did but for us small schools that didn't matter. New Castle at one point won 18-20 sectionals but it was the chance to compete against them was the fun part and not about winning the championship. Today it is about giving more people the chance to win championships than thinking about over coming major obstacles to win a game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: The one thing about class basketball, you'll never have David slaying Goliath again...I think they made a whole basketball movie about that... Just David vs David... And that's not much of a story... They won't be making a movie of a team winning a class basketball championship. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWatShot Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 Class basketball neutered a lot of the big schools who could win their sectionals without breaking a sweat. Now those fanbases have to watch their teams get knocked off in the early rounds by other big schools while much smaller schools play deeper into the month of March. That's typically where a lot of the bellyaching comes from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: The one thing about class basketball, you'll never have David slaying Goliath again...I think they made a whole basketball movie about that... Just David vs David... And that's not much of a story... The changes in the skill sets of players and the game itself would prevent there from ever being another Milan. And, one thing that always gets overlooked is that in 1954, the 'Goliath' schools had 1500-2000 students. The Goliath schools today have 3500 plus students. When I was in high school in the early 1980's. there was no such thing as a Indy area mega-school. Jeffersonville was the 2nd biggest high school in the state with about 2,000 students. Today, 2,000 students still have you 3,000 short of Carmel. That is a very significant difference. Milan would never happen today in a one class system. Not even if you simulated it 1 million times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: The changes in the skill sets of players and the game itself would prevent there from ever being another Milan. And, one thing that always gets overlooked is that in 1954, the 'Goliath' schools had 1500-2000 students. The Goliath schools today have 3500 plus students. When I was in high school in the early 1980's. there was no such thing as a Indy area mega-school. Jeffersonville was the 2nd biggest high school in the state with about 2,000 students. Today, 2,000 students still have you 3,000 short of Carmel. That is a very significant difference. Milan would never happen today in a one class system. Not even if you simulated it 1 million times. But here's the thing... Milan was the pinnacle of success for small schools, but believe me, it happened in sectionals, regionals, the semi-state too... Every year a big school would get knocked off by some 400 student school out in the farmlands... And that was big news... As I said, the know it's never going back to one class, but the state tournament back then will always hold a special place for me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) 15 minutes ago, IUFLA said: But here's the thing... Milan was the pinnacle of success for small schools, but believe me, it happened in sectionals, regionals, the semi-state too... Every year a big school would get knocked off by some 400 student school out in the farmlands... And that was big news... As I said, the know it's never going back to one class, but the state tournament back then will always hold a special place for me... A 400-student school beating a 1600 student school is one thing. A 400-student school beating a 3200-student school is something totally different. But the likelihood of that happening is multiple times more difficult. Edited December 31, 2022 by 5fouls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 Just now, 5fouls said: A 400-student school beating a 1600 student school is one thing. A 400-student school beating a 3200-student school is the equivalent of that achievement today. But the likelihood of that happening is multiple times more difficult. Again for the small schools is not making a run to the championship it is that one game you knock off the big school. I think the difference is you are worried about a team not getting a chance at a championship where others are looking at getting a chance to compete against the best. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted December 31, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 44 minutes ago, IUFLA said: But here's the thing... Milan was the pinnacle of success for small schools, but believe me, it happened in sectionals, regionals, the semi-state too... Every year a big school would get knocked off by some 400 student school out in the farmlands... And that was big news... As I said, the know it's never going back to one class, but the state tournament back then will always hold a special place for me... My alma mater made a magical run. Jesus, that was something else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 I know in my area it was a huge deal in 1981 when Shenandoah made the final four. They had to win the New Castle sectional and regional which means going through teams like New Castle, Richmond and the Muncie schools. Then they had to win the Hinkle semi state which features at least 1 Indianapolis school. Shenandoah is a small school surrounded by corn fields near Middletown Indiana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: A 400-student school beating a 1600 student school is one thing. A 400-student school beating a 3200-student school is something totally different. But the likelihood of that happening is multiple times more difficult. Maybe... But all it takes is 5-10 kids out of that 400... I always think of the coolest sporting events I've even seen... Jets-Colts in SB III, The Miracle on Ice, NC State over Houston, Buster Douglas over Mike Tyson, and the one commonality is it wasn't in any way expected... Those are the awesome sports moments... The memories that last forever... And just the possibility of something like that, even on a relatively small stage like Indiana high school basketball, is just enticing to me... Edited December 31, 2022 by IUFLA 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted December 31, 2022 Report Share Posted December 31, 2022 A lot of the top teams of the one class system are no longer top teams any longer. Just look at the old NCC with teams like Muncie Central, Anderson, New Castle and Richmond are longer do.inate teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, IU Scott said: A lot of the top teams of the one class system are no longer top teams any longer. Just look at the old NCC with teams like Muncie Central, Anderson, New Castle and Richmond are longer do.inate teams It's because the Indy schools dominate in today's high school game. Indy area schools have won 8 of the last 10 4A Championships. It's a different world than it was in the 1980's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, 5fouls said: The fact that Lafayette Jeff won 29 straight sectionals is an indictment against one-class basketball. It's a clear indicator that the bigger 'city' schools have a built-in advantage that is extremely difficult for the smaller county/country schools to overcome. Edited January 1, 2023 by Purdue7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Purdue7 said: Interesting. I think only one of those other schools is still in existence. Also have to love the 9 a.m. games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 4 hours ago, IU Scott said: Of course they did but for us small schools that didn't matter. New Castle at one point won 18-20 sectionals but it was the chance to compete against them was the fun part and not about winning the championship. Today it is about giving more people the chance to win championships than thinking about over coming major obstacles to win a game. Just talked to a Montmorenci HS legend about how many teams and games School was canceled on Friday to play morning noon & night How great would that be ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 7 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Interesting. I think only one of those other schools is still in existence. Also have to love the 9 a.m. games. The small town I was from use to have a high school but we consolidated in 1971. It is in northern Rush County and every little town in the county had a high school. That was why that when my parents were in school in the late 50's and early 60's the sectionals were so big. Like I said they had day games during the week and they pretty much cancelled school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 8 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Interesting. I think only one of those other schools is still in existence. Also have to love the 9 a.m. games. Only Jeff & West Side….CC started in 1956 (program was from 1948) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 3 hours ago, 5fouls said: It's because the Indy schools dominate in today's high school game. Indy area schools have won 8 of the last 10 4A Championships. It's a different world than it was in the 1980's. So, what you are saying is… don’t aspire to play with the best. You’ll never be like them. What a message to send to young people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted January 1, 2023 Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Purdue7 said: Just talked to a Montmorenci HS legend about how many teams and games School was canceled on Friday to play morning noon & night How great would that be ? Ft Wayne had two sectionals and they always played during the school day. It was a great anticipation to hope your school’s draw allowed you a legitimate excuse to get out of class so you could go to the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 1, 2023 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2023 16 hours ago, Steubenhoosier said: Ft Wayne had two sectionals and they always played during the school day. It was a great anticipation to hope your school’s draw allowed you a legitimate excuse to get out of class so you could go to the game 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FKIM01 Posted January 2, 2023 Report Share Posted January 2, 2023 Didn't read nearly all of this raging debate, but you'll never convince me that class basketball killed attendance. We simply live in a different world where more choices and convenience killed attendance. Kind of like how streaming and on demand programming has killed cable, satellite and especially movie theaters. Where I live, lots of small schools like Barr-Reeve, Loogootee, Linton and North Daviess absolutely pack the house because simply because there's not nearly as much choice for entertainment in small communities. It doesn't hurt that the programs are talented and successful. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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