Seeking6 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, Purdue7 said: If they beat what’s left of NW and lose at IU and first BTT are they really a lock? If using NET as the gospel I'd say yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seeking6 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 23 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: WI has lost 7 of 9, including losses to MI, IN, & Rutgers (3 iof bottom 4 in B1G NET), yet they are still NET 23, one behind MSU. Only wins were OSU and MD. Exhibit B on NET rankings and why they should be altered or in this case flat out eliminated as any guidance for tourney. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 34 minutes ago, Seeking6 said: If using NET as the gospel I'd say yes. But no one does that.... Your record against the quadrants matters a lot more than your own NET ranking. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted March 5 Author Report Share Posted March 5 2 hours ago, KoB2011 said: But no one does that.... Your record against the quadrants matters a lot more than your own NET ranking. Yet, I'm seeing MSU consistently as a 9 seed. Bracket Project has them in 104 of 104 brackets. They are 4-8 in quad 1 games and 4-4 in quad 2. IU is 3-8 and 4-4, respectively and isn't sniffing a bid. MSU is NET #22 and IU is NET #101 St. Johns (61 brackets) and Seton Hall (84 brackets) are considered bubble teams. SJ is 5-9 quad 1, 4-2 quad 2. SH is 5-7 quad 1, 3-3 quad 2. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94hoosier Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 47 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Yet, I'm seeing MSU consistently as a 9 seed. Bracket Project has them in 104 of 104 brackets. They are 4-8 in quad 1 games and 4-4 in quad 2. IU is 3-8 and 4-4, respectively and isn't sniffing a bid. MSU is NET #22 and IU is NET #101 St. Johns (61 brackets) and Seton Hall (84 brackets) are considered bubble teams. SJ is 5-9 quad 1, 4-2 quad 2. SH is 5-7 quad 1, 3-3 quad 2. The net should be tossed out If IU wins at minny and beats MSU at home we will have a very similar resume to most of the bubble teams except the net. That is the main reason we aren’t getting any talk about making it. CBS was trying to make a case for OSU Sunday and not us. People are making a case for Iowa and Minny? I we have been thumped in a lot of our losses. I also don’t think we deserve to been in right now. But win the next two and we should be in the bubble talk with a win or two in the BTT but that won’t happen because of our Net ranking. Not saying we should get in if that happens but should be in the conversation. IF MSU and Iowa Minny and OSU are in the conversation then we should be in that scenario 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 5 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: Yet, I'm seeing MSU consistently as a 9 seed. Bracket Project has them in 104 of 104 brackets. They are 4-8 in quad 1 games and 4-4 in quad 2. IU is 3-8 and 4-4, respectively and isn't sniffing a bid. MSU is NET #22 and IU is NET #101 MSU's closest game vs a Q4 team was a 23 point win over Southern Indiana IU had 3 Q4 wins that were single digit victories All of MSU's Q3 wins were double digits IU had 2 single digit Q3 wins and 1 double digit loss It's not all that mysterious. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted March 5 Author Report Share Posted March 5 17 minutes ago, BruceDouglas said: MSU's closest game vs a Q4 team was a 23 point win over Southern Indiana IU had 3 Q4 wins that were single digit victories All of MSU's Q3 wins were double digits IU had 2 single digit Q3 wins and 1 double digit loss It's not all that mysterious. I was responding to the notion that NET doesn’t matter much, that it’s based on quad records. If true, MSU is at best a bubble team St Johns is probably currently out and their quad 1 and 2 record is just as good as MSU Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 53 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I was responding to the notion that NET doesn’t matter much, that it’s based on quad records. If true, MSU is at best a bubble team St Johns is probably currently out and their quad 1 and 2 record is just as good as MSU They don't really ever call it out, but Margin of Victory is HUGE in the net. The more you win by, the better off you are. Is it an indication of how elite you are, there could be an argument there. I know wins are wins and it doesn't matter if you win every game by 1, you still win every game. But if you look at paper only and have 1 team with an equal number of Q1, 2 and 3 wins/losses to a similar team and one team has an average win rate of 17 points and the other is 3 points. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, 13th&Jackson said: I was responding to the notion that NET doesn’t matter much, that it’s based on quad records. If true, MSU is at best a bubble team St Johns is probably currently out and their quad 1 and 2 record is just as good as MSU But MSU is seeded below their metrics... The record does matter. It's not just your metrics or just your record. It's both. MSU being a 9 would reflect that, and so would us missing out on the tournament. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 4 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: I was responding to the notion that NET doesn’t matter much, that it’s based on quad records. If true, MSU is at best a bubble team St Johns is probably currently out and their quad 1 and 2 record is just as good as MSU NET still matters, just not as much as the resume. It's not all or nothing, they look at a lot of different data. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 If Illini are a 4/5 seed good luck to the 1 seed in that bracket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 FL Atlantic, 22-7 overall, 12-4 in AAC. 4-5 road, quad 1: 1-3, quad 2: 6-2, quad 3: 9-0, quad 4: 6-2. #37 NET S. Florida, 23-5 overall, 16-1 in AAC. 15 straight wins including FL Atlantic. 7-3 road, quad 1: 1-0, quad 2: 5-3, quad 3: 8-0, quad 4: 9-2. #75 NET, behind FL ATL, SMU and Memphis in net rankings, but leads conference by three games and is undefeated against all three conference teams with higher NET rankings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 On 3/6/2024 at 9:43 AM, 13th&Jackson said: FL Atlantic, 22-7 overall, 12-4 in AAC. 4-5 road, quad 1: 1-3, quad 2: 6-2, quad 3: 9-0, quad 4: 6-2. #37 NET S. Florida, 23-5 overall, 16-1 in AAC. 15 straight wins including FL Atlantic. 7-3 road, quad 1: 1-0, quad 2: 5-3, quad 3: 8-0, quad 4: 9-2. #75 NET, behind FL ATL, SMU and Memphis in net rankings, but leads conference by three games and is undefeated against all three conference teams with higher NET rankings Some analytics guy at the NCAA should lose his job. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 On 3/6/2024 at 9:43 AM, 13th&Jackson said: FL Atlantic, 22-7 overall, 12-4 in AAC. 4-5 road, quad 1: 1-3, quad 2: 6-2, quad 3: 9-0, quad 4: 6-2. #37 NET S. Florida, 23-5 overall, 16-1 in AAC. 15 straight wins including FL Atlantic. 7-3 road, quad 1: 1-0, quad 2: 5-3, quad 3: 8-0, quad 4: 9-2. #75 NET, behind FL ATL, SMU and Memphis in net rankings, but leads conference by three games and is undefeated against all three conference teams with higher NET rankings Can we get a comparison on non-con performance of these 2? AAC does some funky scheduling, they have all their top teams play each other twice and the bottom teams play each other twice. So USF only played FAU, Memphis and SMU once each. Good exercise in understanding why conference record/standing can't be used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 (edited) 28 minutes ago, BruceDouglas said: Can we get a comparison on non-con performance of these 2? AAC does some funky scheduling, they have all their top teams play each other twice and the bottom teams play each other twice. So USF only played FAU, Memphis and SMU once each. Good exercise in understanding why conference record/standing can't be used. Edited March 9 by IUFLA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Mostly a rhetorical question but thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 7 hours ago, BruceDouglas said: Can we get a comparison on non-con performance of these 2? AAC does some funky scheduling, they have all their top teams play each other twice and the bottom teams play each other twice. So USF only played FAU, Memphis and SMU once each. Good exercise in understanding why conference record/standing can't be used. Yes, they only played FL Atl, SMU & Memphis once, but won all three, including at Memphis. Yet they still trail all three in the NET. It’s a flaw of the NET that a non con game in November or December means more than head to head games in February 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 16 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: Yes, they only played FL Atl, SMU & Memphis once, but won all three, including at Memphis. Yet they still trail all three in the NET. It’s a flaw of the NET that a non con game in November or December means more than head to head games in February Most definitely not a flaw. If you don't count non-conference games then there's no way to "connect" all the conferences and you'd get garbage results. And how do you propose to use head to head when you're comparing literally hundreds of teams that mostly do not play each other? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thirdgenhoosier Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 I’m lazy. Where is IU now? Did someone say 86? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 12 minutes ago, thirdgenhoosier said: I’m lazy. Where is IU now? Did someone say 86? Yeah, 86 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94hoosier Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 11 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Yeah, 86 IU is 93 minny is 86 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, 94hoosier said: IU is 93 minny is 86 Ah, yeah... 86 on Kenpom 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94hoosier Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Ah, yeah... 86 on Kenpom it’s hard to image OSU is at 54 iowa 60 Maryland 77 The net makes no sense and I know we have waxed in a lot of games but our quad one and win loss record is as good as any team in the 10 to 12 seed range. The strength of schedule is also much better than any of those teams Not saying we should be in but we certainly deserve to be looked at and a 2 more wins should make it interesting 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted March 11 Author Report Share Posted March 11 5 minutes ago, 94hoosier said: it’s hard to image OSU is at 54 iowa 60 Maryland 77 The net makes no sense and I know we have waxed in a lot of games but our quad one and win loss record is as good as any team in the 10 to 12 seed range. The strength of schedule is also much better than any of those teams Not saying we should be in but we certainly deserve to be looked at and a 2 more wins should make it interesting FWIW the highest net number to get an at large bid was Rutgers at 77 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
94hoosier Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 3 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: FWIW the highest net number to get an at large bid was Rutgers at 77 Ironically I think that was Maryland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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