HoosierFaithful Posted December 5, 2023 Report Share Posted December 5, 2023 I'm sorry, implying that playing vs Kansas, wherever we play them, isn't a good enough game for this team is sheer lunacy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 5, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2023 2 hours ago, HoosierFaithful said: I'm sorry, implying that playing vs Kansas, wherever we play them, isn't a good enough game for this team is sheer lunacy. I don't think anyone implied that. The point was, under the NET system, you can schedule games and get equal upside, without scheduling a non-con game where you're likely to be a home dog. If fans want to see Kansas play in Bloomington, have at it, but that wasn't the point of the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 5, 2023 Report Share Posted December 5, 2023 10 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: I don't think anyone implied that. The point was, under the NET system, you can schedule games and get equal upside, without scheduling a non-con game where you're likely to be a home dog. If fans want to see Kansas play in Bloomington, have at it, but that wasn't the point of the discussion. That's not completely true, though. While it's fair to say beating the N30 team at home and the N1 team at home are both quad 1 wins, which would look the same when they are showing how many wins you have in each quad, it isn't true to say they have the same impact. Beating N1 will have a great impact on your metrics than beating N30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierFaithful Posted December 5, 2023 Report Share Posted December 5, 2023 23 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said: This is a good article from The Atlantic regarding the NET: https://theathletic.com/5096436/2023/12/01/net-ncaa-basketball-tournament-rankings-selection/?amp=1 The following is where I don’t think the IU athletic department and coaching staff have been strategic with their scheduling and the approach to games. It’s a fine line between developing a team early and posting big wins. I understand CMW’s philosophy, which has an NBA element, that a win is a win, but CBB is a different animal. I’ve argued in favor of scheduling winnable neutral court and road games that will be Quad 1 games. Nothing statistically is gained from playing a neutral court game against UConn or a home game against Kansas. A neutral court game against Missouri would be a better strategic option. “The Mountain West, for example, changed its scheduling philosophy to avoid playing Quad 4 games and strengthen the league’s resumes so that once conference games began, all boats would be lifted. It worked brilliantly last season, as the conference got three at-large bids. Many coaches privately say that they instruct their teams to play hard until the end of blowouts, sometimes leaving starters in longer than necessary, to protect their efficiency numbers. Of course, there’s one formula that remains tried and true no matter what rankings system is in place: schedule hard and perform well.” “You’ve got to win games, but you have to win the right games, too,” Wake Forest coach Steve Forbes says. “The metric has changed the whole thing over the last five years, and I’ve noticed it. You try to do the best that you can do.” Emphasis mine. I get the nuanced NET argument you're making, but at the end of the day, I just don't agree with the line here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 14, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2023 (edited) Iowa State is the perfect example of how blowout wins against bad teams helps your NET. They are currently NET #7. Overall record 8-2. 0-1 Quad 1, 1-1 Quad 2. Neutral court win over NET #108 VCU. Neutral court losses to NET #59 VA Tech and NET #23 TX A&M. They are 6-0 in Quad 4 games with 5 wins in the 30-50+ range. This ranks them well ahead of the teams they lost to on a neutral court. By comparison, Clemson is NET#11. They are 9-0, 3-0 Quad 1, 1-0 Quad 2. Have a win at NET#10 Alabama. Have only played three Quad 4 games (3-0), winning by an average of about 20 in those games. Edited December 14, 2023 by 13th&Jackson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 Hoping and assuming this will change but nonetheless it’s painful to see this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 41 minutes ago, Hoosier987 said: Hoping and assuming this will change but nonetheless it’s painful to see this. I looked at Indiana State's resume and this is what I saw. KenPom strength of schedule - 204 (IU is 76). Lost by 22 to Alabama (similar to IU's defeats against UConn and Auburn). They do have some 30-40 point blowouts. (IU doesn't). I'm not saying their resume isnt strong. Even KenPom has them 20 or so spots ahead of IU. But, over 100 spots? The NET is seriously flawed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosier987 Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 6 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I looked at Indiana State's resume and this is what I saw. KenPom strength of schedule - 204 (IU is 76). Lost by 22 to Alabama (similar to IU's defeats against UConn and Auburn). They do have some 30-40 point blowouts. (IU doesn't). I'm not saying their resume isnt strong. Even KenPom has them 20 or so spots ahead of IU. But, over 100 spots? The NET is seriously flawed. Don’t disagree at all. It’s kind of shocking the tournament committee weighs the NET heavily. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogue3542 Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, 5fouls said: I looked at Indiana State's resume and this is what I saw. KenPom strength of schedule - 204 (IU is 76). Lost by 22 to Alabama (similar to IU's defeats against UConn and Auburn). They do have some 30-40 point blowouts. (IU doesn't). I'm not saying their resume isnt strong. Even KenPom has them 20 or so spots ahead of IU. But, over 100 spots? The NET is seriously flawed. For whatever reason, it seems to be worse this year than last when it comes to illogical rankings. Honestly, it’s borderline unusable. Whatever change they made by taking scoring margin out in fact made scoring margin much, much more important than seemingly anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: The NET is seriously flawed. 2 hours ago, Hoosier987 said: Don’t disagree at all. It’s kind of shocking the tournament committee weighs the NET heavily. 2 hours ago, rogue3542 said: Honestly, it’s borderline unusable. My dudes, it's December 15th. Unlike kenpom, Sagarin (RIP) and many other ranking systems, the NET starts from scratch with ZERO data. So it's going to take more than 10 games or so to be usable. Check it again in mid January. Which is also when the pre-season data from those other systems has worked its way out of those rankings (and MSU will be lower than #33 in kenpom). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 56 minutes ago, BruceDouglas said: My dudes, it's December 15th. Unlike kenpom, Sagarin (RIP) and many other ranking systems, the NET starts from scratch with ZERO data. So it's going to take more than 10 games or so to be usable. Check it again in mid January. Which is also when the pre-season data from those other systems has worked its way out of those rankings (and MSU will be lower than #33 in kenpom). A big question I have is, after the Hoosiers unload some whoop-ass on the Illini on January 27th, will the stupid NET rating still have us behind them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 10 minutes ago, 5fouls said: A big question I have is, after the Hoosiers unload some whoop-ass on the Illini on January 27th, will the stupid NET rating still have us behind them. Very likely. We're currently behind Michigan and Harvard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted December 15, 2023 Report Share Posted December 15, 2023 1 hour ago, 5fouls said: A big question I have is, after the Hoosiers unload some whoop-ass on the Illini on January 27th, will the stupid NET rating still have us behind them. In all honestly i watched Illinois play i think last weekend. They looked very talented and their offense moved allot and they looked to run. I think it was against Tennessee but i could be wrong. I think they are maybe the 2nd best team in the B1G currenlty speaking. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceDouglas Posted December 16, 2023 Report Share Posted December 16, 2023 17 hours ago, 5fouls said: A big question I have is, after the Hoosiers unload some whoop-ass on the Illini on January 27th, will the stupid NET rating still have us behind them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 17, 2023 Report Share Posted December 17, 2023 Even with loss, we jumped High Point and Colgate. Next up Missouri State and Tulane. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted December 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2023 45 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Even with loss, we jumped High Point and Colgate. Next up Missouri State and Tulane. Really needed that signature win yesterday. MSU jumped from 79 to 45 with the Baylor win 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted December 17, 2023 Report Share Posted December 17, 2023 2 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Really needed that signature win yesterday. MSU jumped from 79 to 45 with the Baylor win MSU will end up top 25 by the end of the year IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted December 17, 2023 Report Share Posted December 17, 2023 48 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: Really needed that signature win yesterday. MSU jumped from 79 to 45 with the Baylor win It was the margin of that win that really helped them. If we can win these next three games by a large margin, they will not be considered "significant" wins but it would really improve our NET ranking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud2BAHoosier Posted December 18, 2023 Report Share Posted December 18, 2023 On 12/17/2023 at 10:08 AM, 5fouls said: Even with loss, we jumped High Point and Colgate. Next up Missouri State and Tulane. How about them Aces??? 👋 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 Look who is lurking just a few spots behind us in the NET. Need a 20+ point victory in this one. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, 5fouls said: Look who is lurking just a few spots behind us in the NET. Need a 20+ point victory in this one. Didn’t realize Morehead was 8-3. Looks like 3 of their wins were to non D-1 teams, and 5 were to sub 200 ranked teams. All three loses were by 20+ to P5 teams, including a 23 point loss to Penn State. A 20 point win is certainly possible if we play like we did vs Kansas. That’d probably jump us up 20+ spots. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 I'm not saying I like the NET, but this is part (keyword) of the reality of how it works. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, BGleas said: I'm not saying I like the NET, but this is part (keyword) of the reality of how it works. This alone should cause the NCAA to th grow this sheety metric into the garbage. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steubenhoosier Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 1 minute ago, 5fouls said: This alone should cause the NCAA to th grow this sheety metric into the garbage. have you been taking typing lessons from another poster on here? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted December 19, 2023 Report Share Posted December 19, 2023 2 hours ago, 5fouls said: This alone should cause the NCAA to th grow this sheety metric into the garbage. The committee doesn’t look at the version of NET on 12/19. They use the version at the end of the year after 30+ games have been played. Any metric is going to be incredibly noisy with only 10 or so games played by each team, a lot of them being against bad competition. The whole reason all other advanced metrics have a preseason component that’s still baked in is to help reduce that noise and make the metric more accurate. The NET doesn’t do that because it’s not used until the end of the season anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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