NBA Thread

[IU Scott]

1 minute ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Disagree and think you're speculating on Vic's condition, his intentions on whether to stay with the Pacers, and the front office's / Pritchard's ability to bring in talent. Obviously, Pritchard got Vic and Sabonis in the trade/departure of PG.

The P's don't need 2 rotation players and a young player to develop. They have those. If they're ever to get back into contention status, they need to keep building around Vic, or another player at his level. Otherwise, you maintain mediocrity.

That is pretty much where the Pacers are even with Vic.  We are stuck in being an average team because we are just good enough to get into the playoffs but not good enough to be contenders.  The Pacers owners never wanted to tank to get a high draft picks.  That is the only way for the Pacers to have a chance to get that star player is to get some high draft picks.

[DC2345]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

That is pretty much where the Pacers are even with Vic.  We are stuck in being an average team because we are just good enough to get into the playoffs but not good enough to be contenders.  The Pacers owners never wanted to tank to get a high draft picks.  That is the only way for the Pacers to have a chance to get that star player is to get some high draft picks.

This is 100% correct. The last 2 players that have made any real impact that the Pacers drafted were Paul George 10th pick and Myles Turner 11th pick. Paul George became a star and Myles has flashes. They've missed on other picks but so do a lot of teams that are always picking outside the top 14 picks. 

[ATX_sig]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

That is pretty much where the Pacers are even with Vic.  We are stuck in being an average team because we are just good enough to get into the playoffs but not good enough to be contenders.  The Pacers owners never wanted to tank to get a high draft picks.  That is the only way for the Pacers to have a chance to get that star player is to get some high draft picks.

I am not sure I agree.  I'd at least give it a chance and let it play out.  Let this group finally play together.   If it is not working out then deal at the trade deadline.  Toronto is a title contender.  They may lose to Boston but still they are a contender.  Their best player is Siakam.  Wasn't he drafted in the 20's.

[IU Scott]

19 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

I am not sure I agree.  I'd at least give it a chance and let it play out.  Let this group finally play together.   If it is not working out then deal at the trade deadline.  Toronto is a title contender.  They may lose to Boston but still they are a contender.  Their best player is Siakam.  Wasn't he drafted in the 20's.

https://www.nba.com/allstar/2019/roster#/

This is the NBA All Star roster from 2019 and just looking at the roster most of those players were lottery picks.  Did not look at each player and where they were drafted but most of them seem to be high draft picks.

[dgambill]

The Pacers have a solid roster. They do a good job in free agency in finding good players to compliment the team...problem is they don’t draft particularly well or trade away picks....and never seem to trade up. Simon won’t go in the luxury and he won’t tank. He will play 500 and count on selling just enough seats to make a profit.

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, ATX_sig said:

I am not sure I agree.  I'd at least give it a chance and let it play out.  Let this group finally play together.   If it is not working out then deal at the trade deadline.  Toronto is a title contender.  They may lose to Boston but still they are a contender.  Their best player is Siakam.  Wasn't he drafted in the 20's.

Agreed. The P's are where they are DESPITE Vic not being 100% and otherwise being short on the roster. They've looked very good when they had a complete healthy roster, the throwing in the towel stuff is just premature at best. They need to build around their nucleus, not blow it up, again.

[Hoosierhoopster]

RIP coach John Thompson. Another great one has passed away

[BGleas]

19 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

I mean I did think the first quarter was pretty rough, but the rest the game I didn't and the C's were clearly the better team today. I wouldn't feel bad about that win. Should be a great series though, I don't expect Toronto to shoot as poorly as they did today the rest of the series. 

I’m admittedly biased in this series, but while the Raptors certainly got called for more fouls in the first quarter I didn’t necessarily think they were bad calls.

I think a few things caused the foul discrepancy, 1) the Raptors were out of synch and playing overly physical defensively, 2) the Celtics were playing tremendous transition defense and transition is an area Toronto excels and typically draws a lot of fouls, and 3) in the halfcourt offensively Toronto was playing a little out of control, primarily Lowery and Van Vleet when penetrating so they weren’t getting bail out calls. 

[BGleas]

8 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

C's are playing great, but also think Toronto laid an egg in that first game. Have to think this will be a great series -- will be surprised if it isn't. Won't be surprised to see Boston advance, they are playing great ball right now and Toronto's lead guard is hobbled. But also wouldn't be surprised to see Toronto turn it around. This is a series I've looked forward to.

I also expect this to be a really good, long series. Remember with Boston too though, we’re without Hayward. With that said though, I expect Toronto shoot much, much better from 3 next game and could completely see a lopsided game in the other direction. 

So much of this series is simply going to come down to 3pt shooting. I think Boston’s length, especially on the perimeter hurts guys like Van Vleet, but at the same time Lowery and VanVleet can hurt Boston when they attack the rim. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

Thunder made it a 7-game series. Terrible first game, but now down to game 7. Thought this would be a really good series, and it’s ended up this way. And well Westbrook’s late TO.....

Meanwhile Miami is looking a bit dangerous. I don’t think they’ll beat the Bucks, but this should be another long series, and now we’ll see if Giannis has enough around him 

[BGleas]

6 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Thunder made it a 7-game series. Terrible first game, but now down to game 7. Thought this would be a really good series, and it’s ended up this way. And well Westbrook’s late TO.....

Meanwhile Miami is looking a bit dangerous. I don’t think they’ll beat the Bucks, but this should be another long series, and now we’ll see if Giannis has enough around him 

Miami is really tough. I don’t think they’ll beat the Bucks, but I definitely think they have a chance. If they do, I could easily see them making the Finals. They’re that good. Riley has done a phenomenal job rebuilding that roster. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

Miami is really tough. I don’t think they’ll beat the Bucks, but I definitely think they have a chance. If they do, I could easily see them making the Finals. They’re that good. Riley has done a phenomenal job rebuilding that roster. 

Yes I agree. The Bucks have the best record in the League and when they're spreading the floor they're the team that should make the Finals from the East, but I'm not discounting Miami at all, they're playing really well, together, on both ends, and to his credit, Butler is showing that he wasn't the locker room cancer he's known for. Maybe it's the Miami front office/Riley, maybe it's that he finally has a well balanced team around him, maybe he's finally matured, maybe a combination of all the above, yes, they're dangerous.

[ATX_sig]

18 hours ago, IU Scott said:

https://www.nba.com/allstar/2019/roster#/

This is the NBA All Star roster from 2019 and just looking at the roster most of those players were lottery picks.  Did not look at each player and where they were drafted but most of them seem to be high draft picks.

Weren't VO, Sabonis, Turner all top 10 or 11 picks?  VO went  number 2. Brogdon was 2nd rounder but ROY.   TJ Warren was 14.  Would you like to have both PG13 and Kawhi on the Pacers?  One was 10 and Kawhi 15.  Turner was picked just before Devin Booker.  The Greek was around 15th also.  Adebayo looks like a star on the rise and he went 14th in the draft.  I think Butler was int he 20's.  I agree the odds go up the higher you draft but it seems the Pacers have had plenty of chances to land stars and I know they didn't have the opportunity to draft some of those guys.  They even drafted both Kawhi and PG13.  They were teammates for what 30 minutes. That's an oops.

Hopefully the bucks flame out and Brogdon and the Greek are buddies and the Pacers hire the right coach.

[ATX_sig]

10 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Thunder made it a 7-game series. Terrible first game, but now down to game 7. Thought this would be a really good series, and it’s ended up this way. And well Westbrook’s late TO.....

Meanwhile Miami is looking a bit dangerous. I don’t think they’ll beat the Bucks, but this should be another long series, and now we’ll see if Giannis has enough around him 

I love how 4th quarter Russ never disappoints.  He made a great layup driving past Adams who made a great defensive play to almost stop that layup.  Never mind winning.  Look at what I did.  He decided to do the flex at Adams.  He promptly followed that up with an air ball and the Turnover that essentially cost them the game.   If they lose Game 7, I expect he will dealt for the next version of the rockets around Harden.  Actually if they win,  I don't see how they can come close to competing vs the Lakers in a playoff series when the LA is locked in.   I have a feeling this is a 1 year trial and the rox should cut bait while he is still a good trade piece.  

[Hoosierhoopster]

16 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

I love how 4th quarter Russ never disappoints.  He made a great layup driving past Adams who made a great defensive play to almost stop that layup.  Never mind winning.  Look at what I did.  He decided to do the flex at Adams.  He promptly followed that up with an air ball and the Turnover that essentially cost them the game.   If they lose Game 7, I expect he will dealt for the next version of the rockets around Harden.  Actually if they win,  I don't see how they can come close to competing vs the Lakers in a playoff series when the LA is locked in.   I have a feeling this is a 1 year trial and the rox should cut bait while he is still a good trade piece.  

He remains a dangerous player, but his greatest asset -- his incredible, really unrivaled, burst and relentless energy -- is also his greatest weakness, as he relapses into full bore attack sometimes without control, without a clear approach to winning the game within a team gameplan -- it's put the team on my back and attack.

Forget the Lakers, they won't get past Boston, Toronto, the Bucks, or Miami, each of those teams is better. Also wouldn't bank on the Lakers, at least yet. Clips just never have a complete squad and haven't had enough actual game and practice time together to be what they can be, but when they're locked in, like that 150-point destruction of Dallas, they're heads above the Lakers, who are entirely dependent on LeBron and Unibrow. Beverly is key, Clips need him badly to shore up their elite D and the O, with the extra time off as the Denver series goes to 7, he may be ready. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

37 minutes ago, ATX_sig said:

Weren't VO, Sabonis, Turner all top 10 or 11 picks?  VO went  number 2. Brogdon was 2nd rounder but ROY.   TJ Warren was 14.  Would you like to have both PG13 and Kawhi on the Pacers?  One was 10 and Kawhi 15.  Turner was picked just before Devin Booker.  The Greek was around 15th also.  Adebayo looks like a star on the rise and he went 14th in the draft.  I think Butler was int he 20's.  I agree the odds go up the higher you draft but it seems the Pacers have had plenty of chances to land stars and I know they didn't have the opportunity to draft some of those guys.  They even drafted both Kawhi and PG13.  They were teammates for what 30 minutes. That's an oops.

Hopefully the bucks flame out and Brogdon and the Greek are buddies and the Pacers hire the right coach.

Right except the P's drafted Kawhi in a deal with San Antonio, the P's weren't keeping him.

[Billingsley99]

22 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Right except the P's drafted Kawhi in a deal with San Antonio, the P's weren't keeping him.

Exactly Pacers had 0 interest in drafting KL they needed a point guard and have PG at the same position.  The Spurs identified KL talent and what a steal that he would be

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Yes I agree. The Bucks have the best record in the League and when they're spreading the floor they're the team that should make the Finals from the East, but I'm not discounting Miami at all, they're playing really well, together, on both ends, and to his credit, Butler is showing that he wasn't the locker room cancer he's known for. Maybe it's the Miami front office/Riley, maybe it's that he finally has a well balanced team around him, maybe he's finally matured, maybe a combination of all the above, yes, they're dangerous.

Maybe Butler was just right about some of the guys he's played with? I mean, what have any of them done without him?

[ATX_sig]

6 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

Right except the P's drafted Kawhi in a deal with San Antonio, the P's weren't keeping him.

Well that even helps my point further.  If they don't make that deal he would have further in the draft?   I don't know but anytime the Spurs have somebody on their radar,  I'd do a double check. 

[ATX_sig]

6 hours ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

He remains a dangerous player, but his greatest asset -- his incredible, really unrivaled, burst and relentless energy -- is also his greatest weakness, as he relapses into full bore attack sometimes without control, without a clear approach to winning the game within a team gameplan -- it's put the team on my back and attack.

Forget the Lakers, they won't get past Boston, Toronto, the Bucks, or Miami, each of those teams is better. Also wouldn't bank on the Lakers, at least yet. Clips just never have a complete squad and haven't had enough actual game and practice time together to be what they can be, but when they're locked in, like that 150-point destruction of Dallas, they're heads above the Lakers, who are entirely dependent on LeBron and Unibrow. Beverly is key, Clips need him badly to shore up their elite D and the O, with the extra time off as the Denver series goes to 7, he may be ready. 

I agree with your view on the Lakers.  I was only talking about the  Lakers - Rockets if it happens.  Lebron and AD game in the paint should bring this new found great Rocket defense back to earth.  The announcers are just all over themselves about the Rox being the top defense in the playoffs. Maybe they were biting their lips when bringing that up. 

Yeh, I wanted the Mavs to avoid the Clips so bad.  I though they would get swept and was hoping for 1 win.    Overall, The clips were way less physical in this series than in the regular season games vs Dallas.  I think the Mavs were probably lucky the Clips tried to play goon ball with King goon Morris.  It gave the Mavs something  different to learn.  Other than KP's ejection it really didn't impact the Mavs.  Luka even got more into the games. The Clips just generally wore the Mavs down in regular season games with their athleticism and depth. Mavs typically were shooting bricks by the 2nd halves of those games.   I think Beverly' and Harrell's  high energy wore on the Mavs in the regualr season games and that was missing in the series. 

[IU Scott]

Tatum with a dumb Tech with Celtics up 4 with a little over a minute to go.

[IU Scott]

Wow it is pretty impressive that the Celtics could win the first two games on the road against the Raptors LOL!  I was wondering how the playoffs would work out when you don't have the home court.  To me in a bubble or where there are no fans it usually comes to the most talented teams winning and I think Boston is the more talented team.

[Hoosierhoopster]

2 hours ago, ATX_sig said:

I agree with your view on the Lakers.  I was only talking about the  Lakers - Rockets if it happens.  Lebron and AD game in the paint should bring this new found great Rocket defense back to earth.  The announcers are just all over themselves about the Rox being the top defense in the playoffs. Maybe they were biting their lips when bringing that up. 

Yeh, I wanted the Mavs to avoid the Clips so bad.  I though they would get swept and was hoping for 1 win.    Overall, The clips were way less physical in this series than in the regular season games vs Dallas.  I think the Mavs were probably lucky the Clips tried to play goon ball with King goon Morris.  It gave the Mavs something  different to learn.  Other than KP's ejection it really didn't impact the Mavs.  Luka even got more into the games. The Clips just generally wore the Mavs down in regular season games with their athleticism and depth. Mavs typically were shooting bricks by the 2nd halves of those games.   I think Beverly' and Harrell's  high energy wore on the Mavs in the regualr season games and that was missing in the series. 

Mavs are extremely well positioned going forward, at least if Porzingis can stay healthy, they have assets etc and can add another high level third player to the mix. Doncic is like the next Bird 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Wow it is pretty impressive that the Celtics could win the first two games on the road against the Raptors LOL!  I was wondering how the playoffs would work out when you don't have the home court.  To me in a bubble or where there are no fans it usually comes to the most talented teams winning and I think Boston is the more talented team.

@BGleas approves of this post 

[BGleas]

Huge win for the Celtics, especially considering they really didn’t play well. I do think the Celtics are just better than the Raptors, but I still wouldn’t count the Raptors out. They’re a tough, physical, deep team. 

The Celtics length on the perimeter is really hurting Lowery and Van Vleet from 3. The Celtics have the luxury of putting Marcus Smart on Siakim, which means the longer Tatum defends Van Vleet or Lowery. 

Switching gears, I think missing Bledsoe is really impacting the Bucks. I don’t love Bledsoe, but he is really important to what Milwaukee does. On the Rockets/Westbrook, I agree with what others have said. Westbrook is a dynamic player with historic athleticism and a ridiculous motor, but I just wouldn’t want him on my team. He’s tough to win with and doesn’t seem to understand his role in end of game situations when he’s got teammates that are pure scorers like Durant at OkC and Harden now.