dgambill Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Turner 18 mil Lamb 10.3 A. Holiday 2.5 I don't think the salaries have to match 100 percent so I think this would work. Heyward is not worth all that...no freakin way. He isn’t worth Turner...no way I’d throw in Holiday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, dgambill said: How does that make the Pacers better long term? Give up a 23 year old shot blocking center that can step out to the 3pt line...for an often injured past his prime player in his last season of his contract? I am basing my reasoning on trading Turner is that I think the new hire will want to play an uptempo style. I don't think in the NBA that you can play two big guys so one has to go and for me that is Turner. Sabonis gives you 18 and 12 where Turner gives you around 12 and 6. Turner is a good shot blocker but no really good in defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, dgambill said: Heyward is not worth all that...no freakin way. He isn’t worth Turner...no way I’d throw in Holiday. I think you are way over hyping Turner because he is a one trick pony and that is a great shot blocker. He tries to be a 6'11 shooting guard and is not a great shooter. He has no low post game at all and he gets dominated by any legit center. He gets out muscled when trying to stop a good big man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, KoB2011 said: From a business perspective you're 100% correct. I just don't think that's what the players biggest motivation is at this moment. Gotcha...guess I thought the owners owned the league...not the players. The guys at the top would threaten to boycott walk out but people like Lebron know their time is short...they can’t afford to take a season or two off. In the end the owners have the power..and there are plenty plenty of young men willing to walk across a picket line and play...and the quality would still be very good...it isn’t like football where the drop off would be unwatchable. But you are right...the owners want this as much as the players... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, dgambill said: Gotcha...guess I thought the owners owned the league...not the players. The guys at the top would threaten to boycott walk out but people like Lebron know their time is short...they can’t afford to take a season or two off. In the end the owners have the power..and there are plenty plenty of young men willing to walk across a picket line and play...and the quality would still be very good...it isn’t like football where the drop off would be unwatchable. But you are right...the owners want this as much as the players... Heard people talking about how the Bucks ownership had to back Gianni's and the players because if they don't then Gianni's will not resign there. In the NBA the players had always pretty much run things. Even Magic got a coach fired in his second year in the league. Also do you watch the G League because I can't watch it and that would be the quality you would see. I have a hard time even watching the NBA let alone scabs who cross the picket line. Edited August 28, 2020 by IU Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, IU Scott said: I am basing my reasoning on trading Turner is that I think the new hire will want to play an uptempo style. I don't think in the NBA that you can play two big guys so one has to go and for me that is Turner. Sabonis gives you 18 and 12 where Turner gives you around 12 and 6. Turner is a good shot blocker but no really good in defense. The difference is Turner can shoot from the perimeter and is a rim protector and Sabonis has short arms, not a great defender, and isn’t effective past like 12 feet. Also Sabonis trade value may be as high as it ever has been. Sabonis numbers are also slightly inflated because he often goes against opponents second unit and feasts on them. But if you want to trade Turner be my guest...I’m not overly enamored by him and his disappearing act against the big boys. Maybe the rookie we drafted will step in and make him tradable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Instead of A Holiday could throw Leaf or McDermott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Instead of A Holiday could throw Leaf or McDermott You want Gordon that bad?? He isn’t the Heyward that left Utah...one can only wonder how good he would have been but that player has long sailed. Maybe we can throw in a Lance Stevenson game jersey too...I just don’t get the love affair. Edited August 28, 2020 by dgambill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, dgambill said: You want Gordon that bad?? He isn’t the Heyward that left Utah...one can only wonder how good he would have been but that player has long sailed. He averaged 18 and 6 this year and was the third option on that team. It is not so much Hayward I just want to see the Pacers trade Turner. He is a career 35 percent which is ok but not the great shooter you are making him out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 5 minutes ago, dgambill said: Yep...although you can’t get an owner fired...well unless you are racist...and maybe that is it...they think if you oppose BLM you are racist....how idiotic. You can't fire the owner but the player can sign elsewhere when they become a free agent. Also other free agents will see how you respond and won't sign with you as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, IU Scott said: He averaged 18 and 6 this year and was the third option on that team. It is not so much Hayward I just want to see the Pacers trade Turner. He is a career 35 percent which is ok but not the great shooter you are making him out to be. I don’t love him..I just rather have a 23 year old with upside who yes fits the style the nba is going right now. 35 isn’t great but for a center stepping out there it isn’t bad and he can certainly improve. Gordon benefits from having much better talent, better coach, better system. He would not be that efficient here...and then there is the issue of re-signing him and at his age...how smart will that be? He also avgs 0 the games he misses every year with his injuries...God knows we don’t need anymore injured guys especially come playoff time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 2 minutes ago, IU Scott said: You can't fire the owner but the player can sign elsewhere when they become a free agent. Also other free agents will see how you respond and won't sign with you as well. I was taking about owners being united. They are...but I think they are making a mistake because the actions they are taking is hurting their product. If they stood up together...they could gain control. It’s all good...they seem to like it the way it is...not impressed. Hey..good discussion. Have a great night! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dgambill said: I don’t love him..I just rather have a 23 year old with upside who yes fits the style the nba is going right now. 35 isn’t great but for a center stepping out there it isn’t bad and he can certainly improve. Gordon benefits from having much better talent, better coach, better system. He would not be that efficient here...and then there is the issue of re-signing him and at his age...how smart will that be? He also avgs 0 the games he misses every year with his injuries...God knows we don’t need anymore injured guys especially come playoff time. To me Turner is not like the bigs we see today either. I don't think he is overly athletic and don't run the court well. Yes he he blocks shots but he is not a good defender overall. Also he is not a great rebounder and when Sabonis is not there the team gets killed on the boards. Edited August 28, 2020 by IU Scott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgambill Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 9 minutes ago, IU Scott said: To me Turner is not like the bigs we see today either. I don't think he is overly athletic and don't run the court well. Yes he he blocks shots but he is not a good defender overall. Also he is not a great rebounder and when Sabonis is not there the team gets killed on the boards. Good points...hard for me to defend Turner...if you had a better trade target you might get my support. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, dgambill said: Good points...hard for me to defend Turner...if you had a better trade target you might get my support. Lol Well the other day I put one out there but it would never happen. I had the Pacers trading VO, Turner and A holiday to the Warriors for Clay Thompson and the 2nd pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoB2011 Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 53 minutes ago, dgambill said: Gotcha...guess I thought the owners owned the league...not the players. The guys at the top would threaten to boycott walk out but people like Lebron know their time is short...they can’t afford to take a season or two off. In the end the owners have the power..and there are plenty plenty of young men willing to walk across a picket line and play...and the quality would still be very good...it isn’t like football where the drop off would be unwatchable. But you are right...the owners want this as much as the players... I dont want to get political but yes, the owners own it. The workers just make it go and have value. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC2345 Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Here are some of my takes on the Pacers going into the offseason. 1.) Myles Turner has peaked and some of you over value him. He needs to be traded for an athletic and long 3/4 type player that can score whether that's via a draft pick or veteran. 2.) Don't be surprised if TJ Leaf emerges under a new system if it requires shooters and floor spacing. 3.) McDermott could be poised for a much better season too. 4.) Alize Johnson could see a larger role in a D'Antoni or Atkinson type of system as well. 5.) Players via trade I wouldn't mind seeing include Aaron Gordon and Jerami Grant. 6.) Players via free agency include Danilo Gallinari and Marcus Morris. Note: There could be others as well via trade and free agency depending on what players decide to do with their player options. 7.) Players via draft if the Pacers aquire a pick include Isaac Okoro, Obi Toppin, Patrick Williams, and Saddq Bey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, dgambill said: I’ll try to make this short because we all are probably sick of the social commentary but I understand what the NBA players are trying to do...why they want to effect change. That said I gotta simply think the vehicle or avenue they are choosing to do it is the worst way to do it. It has to be said but there is just simply a societal issue here...it isn’t even all an ethnic thing it’s a morality issue. People are hesitant to get behind something when they hear people say black lives matter when it’s only the black lives that are killed by cops. When People understand that overwhelmingly young black people are more likely to be killed by black on black violence....black babies being murdered at a significantly higher rate by abortion and yet the movement they get behind is a Marxist organization that wants to destroy the nuclear family it’s hard to get people to believe in the change they are pushing for. If they would step out and speak out against the inner city violence , the building of abortion clinics in primarily black neighborhoods, and speak to supporting black fathers and mothers raising kids together and not running out on single mothers then there is where change can really begin. It isn’t even just a minority thing...it goes for all people. The biggest factor determining social economic outcomes is being raised in a two parent household. The likelihood for a successful economic outcome for a child that are raised in a two parent home is significantly higher. Start there and then get an education and it’s almost a certainty that in one generation you can raise a family out of poverty and start future generations down a path toward economic independence and prosperity...towards moving and living in safer communities and towards the ability to effect greater social change. If our young black role models would stand up in solidarity for that vision...I think they would have a huge impact on making the changes in the country they rightly desire for their community. There are some out there that are doing this...and again it isn’t even a black or white thing but we are speaking about using BLM movement and people see right through it. If a majority were to put there efforts towards this I think they would see the changes we all greatly desire. Until I see them standing up for all black lives and not just being a pawn of a political movement I think myself and many others will be very wary of what they are pushing. There seems to be a disconnect. I’m not saying I disagree with some points you make, but you are deflecting from one issue and pointing to other issues. If you’re having trouble in school in all subjects and you want to get better in math, you don’t focus on your problems in science and spelling. It doesn’t necessarily mean you don’t want to get better in those subjects, but for the moment we are concentrating about fixing you problems in math. Studying science and spelling is not going to help you fix math. Again, you do make valid points but you are dumping all problems into one bucket and seem to be insinuating you want BLM to be an advocate for everything. I think you’re focusing to much on their name and not their cause (whether you agree with it or not); their primary fight is social justice not black family dynamics or black on black crime. It doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t care about the latter. Do the breast cancer awareness organizations not care about all lives or cancers because they are just focusing on one type of cancer? Do we criticize them for not talking about pancreatic cancer? Edit/add: Also a reminder that many NBA players do a lot of charitable work for many of the causes you mention. I mean, LeBron James built a school for underprivileged children! Since he seems to be the face of the NBA boycott, let's not forget about his philanthropy: https://clutchpoints.com/lebron-james-donations-over-the-years/ Edited August 28, 2020 by tdhoosier 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/26/2020 at 6:37 PM, BobSaccamanno said: I have been holed up working on some urgent matters and haven’t seen the Kenosha thing (shocking). I’ve read the young man was shot in the back in Kenosha and is paralyzed. I’m happy with the boycott. They have a voice. It may not get them to the end they want, but I like the statement. The bad (very few, in my opinion) cops need rooted out and, even better, should never be hired in the first place. I obviously can’t micromanage them but they need to (a) do much better with psychological evaluation before making new hires, (b) root out the bad ones when they go off the rails, and that right has to be non-negotiable in collective bargaining, and (c) have much smarter training with consequences for trainers that trend toward having trainees that turn into rogue cops. I’ve defended cops in other threads because my interaction with them has been overwhelmingly positive and they do a tough job. But they need to accept and be enlightened on not having the bad ones go so far off the rails. It’s not good for the country, not just the individual victims. The general public is much more of a "nuisance" then cops or even bad cops. We have too many criminals, drug users, and overall pieces crap in this country and it multiples everyday. The cops are the scapegoat right now. Sure take away some funding, sure have some reforms.. that has zero to do with the amount of crap this country is producing on a regular basis.. and its colorless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, btownqb said: The general public is much more of a "nuisance" then cops or even bad cops. We have too many criminals, drug users, and overall pieces crap in this country and it multiples everyday. The cops are the scapegoat right now. Sure take away some funding, sure have some reforms.. that has zero to do with the amount of crap this country is producing on a regular basis.. and its colorless. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: K. Well I work with parents, work with the general public A LOT.... you're going to argue drug use isn't a problem.. gotcha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 1 minute ago, btownqb said: K. Well I work with parents, work with the general public A LOT.... you're going to argue drug use isn't a problem.. gotcha I didn't argue that; I actually didn't write any text. You said ":We have too many criminals, drug users, and overall pieces crap in this country and it multiples everyday." I was just showing you that crime has steadily been decreasing since the early 90s, which is the opposite of multiplying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Guys you're going well outside the NBA talk. Please move this discussion to the animal house, and as always avoid crossing into politics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btownqb Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 13 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I didn't argue that; I actually didn't write any text. You said ":We have too many criminals, drug users, and overall pieces crap in this country and it multiples everyday." I was just showing you that crime has steadily been decreasing since the early 90s, which is the opposite of multiplying. Its not though. Maybe reported crimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierhoopster Posted August 28, 2020 Report Share Posted August 28, 2020 Just now, btownqb said: Its not though. Maybe reported crimes. Again, take this discussion to the animal house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.