NBA Thread

[Billingsley99]

I feel that the next head coach for the Pacers will be Kenny Atkinson

[Seeking6]

2 hours ago, rico said:

Awwwww, they are worried about money?  Huh, who would have thought?

And that's the tough part. The whole message is lost in the name of the $. I don't have a problem with folks doing anything for the $. It's what makes things go. But don't say one thing and less than 24 hours later after a word with Jordan say game on. Yesterday didn't matter. Message gets lost.

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Seeking6

[dgambill]

4 hours ago, rico said:

Awwwww, they are worried about money?  Huh, who would have thought?

So was the China thing...that got shut down real quick too. I know it’s a business but sorry if I don’t tune into a bunch of guys that most needed help getting into college and then either didn’t finish or took sham classes as the ones to look up to. I know there are some real good work being done by some players giving back to their communities and working with less fortunate. I think that should be where the focus should go for them if they truly want to make a difference.

[BGleas]

I think the players have handled this beautifully. They made a large enough statement, essentially cancelling all sports except hockey for 2-3 days, which has grabbed everyone's attention, then they go back to playing where they can continue to use their voice and messages (jersey's, court, etc.). Cancelling the season would have lost them momentum. They made a big splash and now they get to ride the momentum of the splash they made. 

The money part can be looked at different ways. I'm sure players are worried about their own incomes, who wouldn't be? But also, if they cancel the season and owners lose a ton of more money and sponsors, then salary caps go down, salaries go down, etc., and potentially the players have less money long term to dump into their causes and less support from owners who can really move the political needle. 

[Seeking6]

16 minutes ago, BGleas said:

I think the players have handled this beautifully. They made a large enough statement, essentially cancelling all sports except hockey for 2-3 days, which has grabbed everyone's attention, then they go back to playing where they can continue to use their voice and messages (jersey's, court, etc.). Cancelling the season would have lost them momentum. They made a big splash and now they get to ride the momentum of the splash they made. 

The money part can be looked at different ways. I'm sure players are worried about their own incomes, who wouldn't be? But also, if they cancel the season and owners lose a ton of more money and sponsors, then salary caps go down, salaries go down, etc., and potentially the players have less money long term to dump into their causes and less support from owners who can really move the political needle. 

Respect your opinion and as a poster on here. Just don't agree. The stage they had yesterday was bigger. Today? Shrinking quickly.

I'm not saying the message isn't important. Of course it is. That's a given.  That goes without saying. But a 24 hour standoff? Just saying I think this could have been strategically planned a bit more. Right now the masses  (again the dwindling audience) are saying I'm not watching the NBA again. 

I'm just thinking off the top of my head right now. Joint releases from every single NBA city and Police HQ saying something. States, cities.....anything beside what it look likes right now which is money was threatened and everyone is falling back in line. Again...respect for you as a poster but this situation wasn't handled correctly. Shoot I just watched Blake's Mom give an interview on CNN and she was as impressive as anyone I've heard talk. 

 

[BGleas]

2 minutes ago, Seeking6 said:

Respect your opinion and as a poster on here. Just don't agree. The stage they had yesterday was bigger. Today? Shrinking quickly.

I'm not saying the message isn't important. Of course it is. That's a given.  That goes without saying. But a 24 hour standoff? Just saying I think this could have been strategically planned a bit more. Right now the masses  (again the dwindling audience) are saying I'm not watching the NBA again. 

I'm just thinking off the top of my head right now. Joint releases from every single NBA city and Police HQ saying something. States, cities.....anything beside what it look likes right now which is money was threatened and everyone is falling back in line. Again...respect for you as a poster but this situation wasn't handled correctly. Shoot I just watched Blake's Mom give an interview on CNN and she was as impressive as anyone I've heard talk. 

 

Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Respect you as a poster as well on here, of course. 

This isn't something that was easy to have a real strategic plan for, it was unfolding in real time. I'm know players spent last night and most of today meeting, and I'm sure they spent a ton of time strategizing what they do from here. But they had the attention of the nation for almost 24 hours, in a country where the news cycle flips every 10 minutes seemingly. At a time where the incumbent president is having his convention before an major election, and the NBA and athletes in general held the attention.

All day today they held the attention as well. Cancelling the season would have accomplished very little. Now, by ultimately continuing they'll get to keep spreading the message. 

I'm not sure what you mean about Blake's Mom being impressive? I agree she was impressive, but did you mean that in a way that she's handling the moment well with her words and the NBA or athletes aren't? Did you hear Doc Rivers speak? Chris Webber? Ryan Clark (former NFL player)? The New York Mets player? Athletes have absolutely delivered and they will continue too. 

By going home, they lose their voice. Remember Kyrie saying the players shouldn't play before the bubble because it would be a distraction? I'm sure Kyrie is doing great things in his community right now, but he's not in the bubble and have you hear a word nationally/publicly about him and his message? I haven't. There's no microphones in front of him that anybody is listening too, but for 24 hours everyone was listening to the NBA. If they weren't in the bubble this would have received much less attention.

I also think we're holding the players to an almost impossible standard. Black people are the victims here. They're the ones living in fear. Yet LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Jaylen Brown, etc., etc., are supposed to give up all of their money or else their sellouts or not handling it right? Athletes are supposed to "put their money where their mouth is" but politicians, police forces, etc aren't. 

[Seeking6]

7 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Yeah, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. Respect you as a poster as well on here, of course. 

This isn't something that was easy to have a real strategic plan for, it was unfolding in real time. I'm know players spent last night and most of today meeting, and I'm sure they spent a ton of time strategizing what they do from here. But they had the attention of the nation for almost 24 hours, in a country where the news cycle flips every 10 minutes seemingly. At a time where the incumbent president is having his convention before an major election, and the NBA and athletes in general held the attention.

All day today they held the attention as well. Cancelling the season would have accomplished very little. Now, by ultimately continuing they'll get to keep spreading the message. 

I'm not sure what you mean about Blake's Mom being impressive? I agree she was impressive, but did you mean that in a way that she's handling the moment well with her words and the NBA or athletes aren't? Did you hear Doc Rivers speak? Chris Webber? Ryan Clark (former NFL player)? The New York Mets player? Athletes have absolutely delivered and they will continue too. 

By going home, they lose their voice. Remember Kyrie saying the players shouldn't play before the bubble because it would be a distraction? I'm sure Kyrie is doing great things in his community right now, but he's not in the bubble and have you hear a word nationally/publicly about him and his message? I haven't. There's no microphones in front of him that anybody is listening too, but for 24 hours everyone was listening to the NBA. If they weren't in the bubble this would have received much less attention.

I also think we're holding the players to an almost impossible standard. Black people are the victims here. They're the ones living in fear. Yet LeBron James, Kawhi Leonard, Jaylen Brown, etc., etc., are supposed to give up all of their money or else their sellouts or not handling it right? Athletes are supposed to "put their money where their mouth is" but politicians, police forces, etc aren't. 

All very well said and agree with most. What I was saying and maybe it's my contingency thinking brain but I always have plans in place for initial, secondary, tertiary,etc..responses. If this happens. We go this route. If this happens we do this. The social injustices didn't happen since Kenosha. If I were in charge of players association these were things I would have been discussing since the spring. 

Regarding Blake's Mom. I was just impressed with her. Very impressed.  Reminds me of Ben Wilson's Mom back in Chicago. After Ben was shot and declared dead she grabbed the mic and delivered one of the greatest initial reactions ever in my opinion outside St. Bernard. Her son, her life dead and she still spoke with reason and common sense. The only trouble back in 1984 is the same problem today. People using tragedies to move forward their own self interests. Jessie Jackson did it in 1984. I see others doing it today. 

 

[IU Scott]

Just scanning the internet about trade rumors and saw one I would like for the Pacers and it was Turner to the Celtics for Hayward.  Sure it might take a little more than that but those were the principals involved in the rumor.

[BGleas]

14 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Just scanning the internet about trade rumors and saw one I would like for the Pacers and it was Turner to the Celtics for Hayward.  Sure it might take a little more than that but those were the principals involved in the rumor.

I'm not a big fan of Myles Turner's game, but realistically the Celtics are going to have to make a decision on Hayward and the Celtics need an interior presence. I wish he was a better rebounder though because while the blocked shots are nice, we really need a rebounder. With that said, I'm not sure what the market would be for Hayward and this could be a somewhat fair deal. 

I'm just really not a fan of Turner thought.

[IU Scott]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I'm not a big fan of Myles Turner's game, but realistically the Celtics are going to have to make a decision on Hayward and the Celtics need an interior presence. I wish he was a better rebounder though because while the blocked shots are nice, we really need a rebounder. With that said, I'm not sure what the market would be for Hayward and this could be a somewhat fair deal. 

I'm just really not a fan of Turner thought.

Turner is a very good shot blocker coming off of his guy but not a great on ball defender.  For some reason and the Pacers hire Dantoni I see the Pacers having to move one of their big guys.  Also with the Celtics logjam at the 2 and 3 slots it would make sense for them to trade Hayward.

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Just scanning the internet about trade rumors and saw one I would like for the Pacers and it was Turner to the Celtics for Hayward.  Sure it might take a little more than that but those were the principals involved in the rumor.

Heyward would kill our cap. He has a horrible contract. How about Turner for Stevens lol...if I am going to get a Butler guy might as well get the best.

Edited August 28, 2020 by dgambill

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, BGleas said:

I'm not a big fan of Myles Turner's game, but realistically the Celtics are going to have to make a decision on Hayward and the Celtics need an interior presence. I wish he was a better rebounder though because while the blocked shots are nice, we really need a rebounder. With that said, I'm not sure what the market would be for Hayward and this could be a somewhat fair deal. 

I'm just really not a fan of Turner thought.

Thats a trade where neither team gets better. Pacers get hamstrung by Heywards cap hit and Celtics get a guy that just gets abused by Embiid and other elite Centers. Turner is better suited for us as is Heyward in Boston...there is better alternatives for both teams if a trade is going to happen.

[KoB2011]

3 hours ago, Seeking6 said:

Respect your opinion and as a poster on here. Just don't agree. The stage they had yesterday was bigger. Today? Shrinking quickly.

I'm not saying the message isn't important. Of course it is. That's a given.  That goes without saying. But a 24 hour standoff? Just saying I think this could have been strategically planned a bit more. Right now the masses  (again the dwindling audience) are saying I'm not watching the NBA again. 

I'm just thinking off the top of my head right now. Joint releases from every single NBA city and Police HQ saying something. States, cities.....anything beside what it look likes right now which is money was threatened and everyone is falling back in line. Again...respect for you as a poster but this situation wasn't handled correctly. Shoot I just watched Blake's Mom give an interview on CNN and she was as impressive as anyone I've heard talk. 

 

The people saying they won't watch the NBA again mostly fell outside of their core watchers. 

[KoB2011]

14 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Thats a trade where neither team gets better. Pacers get hamstrung by Heywards cap hit and Celtics get a guy that just gets abused by Embiid and other elite Centers. Turner is better suited for us as is Heyward in Boston...there is better alternatives for both teams if a trade is going to happen.

I think it depends who we hire. I believe Hayward only has a year left on his deal, too, so his pay would likely go down long term. 

If we hire MD then you need a guy like Hayward to play him and Warren interchangeably at the 3/4. I prefer a .over for Jerami Grant as I suggested earlier, but Hayward would be a fit. 

[IU Scott]

24 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Heyward would kill our cap. He has a horrible contract. How about Turner for Stevens lol...if I am going to get a Butler guy might as well get the best.

Looked it up and Hayward has one year left at 31 mil and Turner has 3 years left at 20 mil a year.

[dgambill]

25 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

The people saying they won't watch the NBA again mostly fell outside of their core watchers. 

Well if you want to grow...you need people outside their core watchers correct? Just saying if you want a bigger tent you don’t alienate a large portion of the people you need to win over to grow you audience. At a wonderful sport..and the stars are probably the most recognizable....of its about winning viewership MJ had it right...that’s why he was so globally accepted and loved and why the sport grew to its enourmous heights. Lebron and others could have a similar effect. I respect their right to their opinions and the nbas right to promote the issues...but it isn’t a unity message they are selling.

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Well if you want to grow...you need people outside their core watchers correct? Just saying if you want a bigger tent you don’t alienate a large portion of the people you need to win over to grow you audience. At a wonderful sport..and the stars are probably the most recognizable....of its about winning viewership MJ had it right...that’s why he was so globally accepted and loved and why the sport grew to its enourmous heights. Lebron and others could have a similar effect. I respect their right to their opinions and the nbas right to promote the issues...but it isn’t a unity message they are selling.

I think the NBA doesn't want unity with a certain subset of the population. They're okay with losing out on whatever that revenue would be, and after the strike, the owners are now too. 

[KoB2011]

 

 

[dgambill]

12 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Looked it up and Hayward has one year left at 31 mil and Turner has 3 years left at 20 mil a year.

He has a 35 million player option was what I saw. I thought he had two years...guess it was so bad I thought it was worse. That said Turner has an affordable contract for as good as he is...but the Pacers could then end up losing Heyward and Oladipo next offseason. I like Gordon but we would have to add a lot more to make it work. 15 million isn’t chump change...that’s like throwing in TJ Warren level player to make the money work. 

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He has a 35 million player option was what I saw. I thought he had two years...guess it was so bad I thought it was worse. That said Turner has an affordable contract for as good as he is...but the Pacers could then end up losing Heyward and Oladipo next offseason. I like Gordon but we would have to add a lot more to make it work. 15 million isn’t chump change...that’s like throwing in TJ Warren level player to make the money work. 

Or Jeremy Lamb, which opens up more opportunities for Holliday who I think has earned that. 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I think the NBA doesn't want unity with a certain subset of the population. They're okay with losing out on whatever that revenue would be, and after the strike, the owners are now too. 

Got it...but if you want the biggest piece of the pie you try to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. NFL did that for quite a while but even they are falling down the hole and losing viewership. I’m stopping there...don’t want to go down that rabbit hole....just like people don’t want to hear it on tv they don’t want it in the NBA thread. They just want to discuss if PG is clutch or not. Lol

[dgambill]

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Or Jeremy Lamb, which opens up more opportunities for Holliday who I think has earned that. 

How does that make the Pacers better long term? Give up a 23 year old shot blocking center that can step out to the 3pt line...for an often injured past his prime player in his last season of his contract?

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, dgambill said:

He has a 35 million player option was what I saw. I thought he had two years...guess it was so bad I thought it was worse. That said Turner has an affordable contract for as good as he is...but the Pacers could then end up losing Heyward and Oladipo next offseason. I like Gordon but we would have to add a lot more to make it work. 15 million isn’t chump change...that’s like throwing in TJ Warren level player to make the money work. 

Turner 18 mil

Lamb 10.3

A. Holiday 2.5

I don't think the salaries have to match 100 percent so I think this would work.

[KoB2011]

6 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Got it...but if you want the biggest piece of the pie you try to appeal to as wide an audience as possible. NFL did that for quite a while but even they are falling down the hole and losing viewership. I’m stopping there...don’t want to go down that rabbit hole....just like people don’t want to hear it on tv they don’t want it in the NBA thread. They just want to discuss if PG is clutch or not. Lol

From a business perspective you're 100% correct. I just don't think that's what the players biggest motivation is at this moment. 

EDIT: just to clarify, my laugh was as the PG comment not the point you made. 

Edited August 28, 2020 by KoB2011

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Turner 18 mil

Lamb 10.3

A. Holiday 2.5

I don't think the salaries have to match 100 percent so I think this would work.

I'd never give up Holiday in that deal. Would make it awful IMO.