IowaHoosierFan Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Bedford1432 said: Six years to change the culture? Freddy not was right when he said long long term rebuild Don't disagree. Just not sure we can handle 5 years of mediocre basketball to maybe get to good basketball. But who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 7 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said: Don't disagree. Just not sure we can handle 5 years of mediocre basketball to maybe get to good basketball. But who knows Freddy didn't admit that he kept Tom Crean far too long, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 17 hours ago, IUFLA said: Not to steal Scott's argument, but do you think Duke fans "saw the signs" when he was 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17 his first 3 years? It’s comforting to keep reading that we may have the next coach K. Hopefully that turns out to be true. K was in the hot seat because of his first three years. Fortunately for him he then recruited the number one class in the country. Maybe that’s also our plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, dbmhoosier said: Freddy didn't admit that he kept Tom Crean far too long, right? I am glad to see Freddy going...and for McRobbie to follow him soon after. Work on a fee BoT members after that and we may be getting somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, IU878176 said: It’s comforting to keep reading that we may have the next coach K. Hopefully that turns out to be true. K was in the hot seat because of his first three years. Fortunately for him he then recruited the number one class in the country. Maybe that’s also our plan? I get tired of hearing K's name come up in regards to his 1st three years at Duke. He took over a team that had reached the #1 ranking the previous year. In year #1 he took 3 NBA draft picks to a 17-13 record which included a 1st round exit in the ACCT and a 3rd round loss to Purdue in the NIT. He had plenty of pieces but the ACC was so damn good and 68 teams didn't get invited to the NCAAT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU878176 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 minutes ago, rico said: I get tired of hearing K's name come up in regards to his 1st three years at Duke. He took over a team that had reached the #1 ranking the previous year. In year #1 he took 3 NBA draft picks to a 17-13 record which included a 1st round exit in the ACCT and a 3rd round loss to Purdue in the NIT. He had plenty of pieces but the ACC was so damn good and 68 teams didn't get invited to the NCAAT. I’m also tired of it. Many coaches started out slowly but for some reason one of the best coaches ever is used (over and over) as an example of how things turn around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 I think you all are taking the Coach K comment out of context. I was responding to this comment... "That's utter nonsense to say you won't know how good a coach is for four years. A good coach is a good coach and you can see the signs much earlier than that." My point in invoking the name of Coach K was that the casual fan, myself included, cannot really discern a guys coaching chops. Some things may be all too obvious (and I haven't noticed any of that with CAM), but much of our criticism of a particular coach is an uneducated opinion. Coach K is simply the extreme example of fans being wrong. But there have been others as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, IUFLA said: I think you all are taking the Coach K comment out of context. I was responding to this comment... "That's utter nonsense to say you won't know how good a coach is for four years. A good coach is a good coach and you can see the signs much earlier than that." My point in invoking the name of Coach K was that the casual fan, myself included, cannot really discern a guys coaching chops. Some things may be all too obvious (and I haven't noticed any of that with CAM), but much of our criticism of a particular coach is an uneducated opinion. Coach K is simply the extreme example of fans being wrong. But there have been others as well... Understood but not only is K an extreme example but in my opinion a bad example. Duke had been on top of the college basketball world previous to him arriving. In his case it was just bad timing as the ACC was extremely tough at the top when he took over. 1981 saw the conference get 4 teams in the NCAAT. 4 out of 8. Duke was 6-8 that year. Honestly he was a success in year 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, rico said: Understood but not only is K an extreme example but in my opinion a bad example. Duke had been on top of the college basketball world previous to him arriving. In his case it was just bad timing as the ACC was extremely tough at the top when he took over. 1981 saw the conference get 4 teams in the NCAAT. 4 out of 8. Duke was 6-8 that year. Honestly he was a success in year 1. But it was not a comparison of Coach K and Archie at all...it was a reflection on how badly a fan base can be wrong. I said in a previous post that if CAM is still struggling to make the tournament after next year, get the search committee ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, IUFLA said: But it was not a comparison of Coach K and Archie at all...it was a reflection on how badly a fan base can be wrong. I said in a previous post that if CAM is still struggling to make the tournament after next year, get the search committee ready. But do any of us know how the Duke fan base was back then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, IU878176 said: It’s comforting to keep reading that we may have the next coach K. Hopefully that turns out to be true. K was in the hot seat because of his first three years. Fortunately for him he then recruited the number one class in the country. Maybe that’s also our plan? If you saw the 30/30 on the class that saved Coach K you saw that one of the boosters had a petition to get him fired. Even during that class first year it did not get turned around and the season ended with a 30+ point loss in the ACC tournament. Nobody is saying Archie will turn into coach K but it has been proven that patience has paid off many times with coaches who turned into great coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 44 minutes ago, rico said: But do any of us know how the Duke fan base was back then? Yes if you watch the 30/30 of the class that saved Coach K. they were talking to Bilas and Alerie and they went to dinner with one of their girlfriends family which was a big booster. During dinner the girl's father mentioned to them that they had a petition put together to get the coach fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, rico said: But do any of us know how the Duke fan base was back then? Well, there was no internet, much less social media, but I was going to say the same thing Scott posted...the 30 for 30 made it pretty clear most Duke fans didn't think Coach K was "the guy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutter Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Yep and for every “guy” there are over 300 that aren’t the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Cutter said: Yep and for every “guy” there are over 300 that aren’t the guy But, to find out they have to at least have a fair chance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Well, there was no internet, much less social media, but I was going to say the same thing Scott posted...the 30 for 30 made it pretty clear most Duke fans didn't think Coach K was "the guy." They hated the hire in the first place because e he was a no name coach from Army who is coming off a season with loosing record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDom Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 19 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said: What I see started over and over is that we need a healthy Rob. Why is is our season reliant on one guy. Why does out failure to shoot the ball land on his shoulders. Why does our inability to defend the 3 depend on Rob. Why is our team structured so that a injury prone sophomore is the win/lose peice? We should be able to adust and respond to a missing peice. I get that he is our point guard but why does a div1 basketball team only have one serviceable ball handler? And every time I hear the excuse that we need to get healthy I just shake my head. This isn't last year. We have one injured player and we lay everything at his feet for every deficiency we have. We have our only pg injured. We also have a senior big man (the 2nd highest ranked recruit on our team) that can barely move. We also have our most talented wing (the 3rd highest ranked recruit on our team) recovering from major health problems and playing well below his rankings and even further below his initial signs of ability. We're an entirely different team if we have those guys performing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergates Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 21 hours ago, Bedford1432 said: I said we desperately needed shooters all spring but was told over and over the guys we had would get much better at shooting this summer. I always thought was a weak argument and now it looks like nobody improved. Not addressing this major problem is 100% on archie. Not like he didn't recruit shooters. They didn't commit to us, so he has to run with the players he's got. Mann, Carton, Quinones, Newman, Hurt, Watford, all can shoot the 3, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 2 hours ago, IU878176 said: It’s comforting to keep reading that we may have the next coach K. Hopefully that turns out to be true. K was in the hot seat because of his first three years. Fortunately for him he then recruited the number one class in the country. Maybe that’s also our plan? The coach K and Jay Wright examples get used as if it is how it always works out. It's possible it happens with Archie but there are dozens of examples where it didn't work out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 25 minutes ago, HoosierDom said: We have our only pg injured. We also have a senior big man (the 2nd highest ranked recruit on our team) that can barely move. We also have our most talented wing (the 3rd highest ranked recruit on our team) recovering from major health problems and playing well below his rankings and even further below his initial signs of ability. We're an entirely different team if we have those guys performing. Every team has injuries as it's part of the game. It's how you adjust to them that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: The coach K and Jay Wright examples get used as if it is how it always works out. It's possible it happens with Archie but there are dozens of examples where it didn't work out Nobody is saying it will work out just saying coaches need time to prove if they can or can't coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Just now, Bedford1432 said: Every team has injuries as it's part of the game. It's how you adjust to them that matters. And so far this team is 11-2 and people are still complaining, no wonder top coaches won't want to come here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 14 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: The coach K and Jay Wright examples get used as if it is how it always works out. It's possible it happens with Archie but there are dozens of examples where it didn't work out Also you can add names like Bennett, Izzo and Dean Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, HoosierDom said: We have our only pg injured. We also have a senior big man (the 2nd highest ranked recruit on our team) that can barely move. We also have our most talented wing (the 3rd highest ranked recruit on our team) recovering from major health problems and playing well below his rankings and even further below his initial signs of ability. We're an entirely different team if we have those guys performing. If you are referring to DD, hasn't been anything since day one, can't count him in my opinion and if your referring to Hunter, we have no idea what he will do. He hasn't shown anything yet that says he would make a difference if oh the court even when he was healthy. My point was everyone is laying it on Rob add the reason for poor play or the 2 loses. We shouldn't be a team that falls apart when one player is down or playing poorly. But that is just my opinion, reach to their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indy1987 Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, cybergates said: Not like he didn't recruit shooters. They didn't commit to us, so he has to run with the players he's got. Mann, Carton, Quinones, Newman, Hurt, Watford, all can shoot the 3, no? Offering 3 pt shooters isn't Archie's problem. It's landing one. And that is a a bit of a head scratcher. Any recruit watching our games the last 2 years could see the huge opportunity they would have to score. If we had a shooter on this team we would be really good. Here's to hoping he lands one soon. Go Hoosiers!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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