IU878176 Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/31/2019 at 9:35 AM, The Daily Hoosier said: After a respectable start, Indiana is shooting about the same percentage as last year from three point range, and an all-too-familiar defensive scheme to slow down the Hoosiers has emerged. https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-game-plan-for-slowing-hoosier-offense-looks-all-too-familiar/ Stats from our first 7 games are fairly meaningless. One of my questions, during our stretch of cupcake games, was wether or not our improved 3 point shooting would hold up against better competition (more length, quicker close outs etc). In our last four games, against good competition, we are 17-76. ND and Arkansas both flipped the games by packing the lanes in the second half and daring us to shoot from the perimeter. Coaches would be crazy not to do the same at the beginning, rather than waiting for the second half, of the upcoming games. Hopefully Rob, Al, and Green can get it going and make teams pay for that strategy. Really feel bad for Rob as he has had limited practices and clearly is not back to where he was early in his freshman year. “On paper” it seems like Hunter, Damezi, Rob, Al and Green would all be decent from the perimeter but for whatever reason, at this point, it is not happening. Let’s hope that changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUCrazy2 Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 On 12/31/2019 at 3:49 PM, Bedford1432 said: The one they said would start this year and play a ton of minutes? That one? The guy is a year away minimum from playing big minutes and that assumes he gets fully healthy. Which is literally what many of the guys labeled "negative" were saying could and probably would happen. Funny how the "negative" view tends to trend closer to reality. Those "negative" posters have been begging to add shooters for a few years now too. They were told that we would be ok because Romeo and Morgan were gone and they drug down our shooting numbers last year and if you look at the other guys they were really not that bad. The biggest problem with the IU fanbase and what makes us look so negative is that we are harder to hoodwink. We know bad basketball whether the outcome of the game ends up being positive or negative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Something I have noticed is that we are once again having our bad shooters dominate our shooting. Rob and Al are our 2nd and 3rd best shooters but on a per 40 minutes basis they are 5th and 6th most prolific shooters. Sub 30% shooters dominate the 2-4 spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 5 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Something I have noticed is that we are once again having our bad shooters dominate our shooting. Rob and Al are our 2nd and 3rd best shooters but on a per 40 minutes basis they are 5th and 6th most prolific shooters. Sub 30% shooters dominate the 2-4 spot This is partly why Rob’s injury has been so impactful though. Ideally, at least if I was the coach, you’d want Rob, Devonte and Al playing together in a smaller, quicker, more skilled lineup. This way Rob can handle the ball and Al doesn’t have to as much, but you still have Green and Al there to make plays where Rob can then be on the receiving end at times. It allows Green and Al to focus on what they do best, but then for Rob he can give the ball up at times as well. Right now Al has to play point guard, which he isn’t best suited for, and doesn’t allow him to just be a wing/scorer. Then when Rob comes in, it’s usually with the bench guys so he has to be in full point guard mode and can’t get many of those spot-up 3’s he’s really good at. I think overall this team is limited a bit still, but I’d love to see what IU would be capable of with a fully healthy and conditioned Phinisee, Green, Durham, Smith, TJD lineup. You then have Brunk, Franklin, Anderson and Hunter playing the bulk of the minutes off the bench. Brunk spells TJD, Hunter spells Smith (I love Hunter as a small ball 4, he’s struggling fromvthe perimeter but has shown at times a strong touch from the paint), Anderson spells Durham/Green and Franklin spells Phin/Green. That is a much faster, more skilled lineup. It would also open up the paint more for TJD. We need to get healthy, but when healthy this is a no-brained to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, IUCrazy2 said: Which is literally what many of the guys labeled "negative" were saying could and probably would happen. Funny how the "nehative" view tends to trend closer to reality. Those "negative" posters have been begging to add shooters for a few years now too. They were told that we would be ok because Romeo and Morgan were gone and they drug down our shooting numbers last year and if you look at the other guys they were really not that bad. The biggest problem with the IU fanbase and what makes us look so negative is that we are harder to hoodwink. We know bad basketball whether the outcome of the game ends up being positive or negative. I said we desperately needed shooters all spring but was told over and over the guys we had would get much better at shooting this summer. I always thought was a weak argument and now it looks like nobody improved. Not addressing this major problem is 100% on archie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbmhoosier Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: I said we desperately needed shooters all spring but was told over and over the guys we had would get much better at shooting this summer. I always thought was a weak argument and now it looks like nobody improved. Not addressing this major problem is 100% on archie. Yep spot on. As I said when Kelvin Sampson was hired we had no size whatsoever outside of DJ White. What did he do? He immediately went out and brought in Stemler and Mike White to address his glaring need. Archie has done bupkis to address his and it's year 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3Ballin Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, BGleas said: This! This is my one big criticism on Archie this season. This big lineup is a recipe for disaster long term. It's just so, so easy to defend. In this day and age of basketball, you just can't have 3 players in the lineup that can't shoot from the perimeter, can't handle the ball and can't make plays from the perimeter. Against real talent, Justin Smith is not a wing. I love the way he's playing this year (under control, smart, hard and within himself), so wouldn't want him out of the lineup though. I also love a lot of what Brunk brings, but I think I'd start bringing him off the bench. Once any half decent coach adjusts, having all three of Smith, TJD and Brunk in together completely neuters their effectiveness. Smith can't get to the rim, TJD and Brunk and can't get the ball on the block, and our guards/wings (who mostly can't shoot) can't get to the rim. Another failure, as you said many times in the non-con, was not getting Anderson and Hunter even more minutes. IU desperately needs those two, or at least one of them, to be reliable offensive contributors. IU needs to become quicker and more spaced offensively, and that can't happen once a coach adjusts to our non-shooting, non-playmaking, big lineup. Conference coaches will figure this our infinitely sooner than the our of conference coaches did. Although he is not what was advertised as of yet, I think Hunter needs to get more minutes. Be them from Brunk (ideally, but not because of anything he has done wrong) or Smith who at the wing offers a lower ceiling and versatility than Hunter. Hunter also is more versitile than Anderson which is why I think he should be the one to do it, health pending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, dbmhoosier said: Yep spot on. As I said when Kelvin Sampson was hired we had no size whatsoever outside of DJ White. What did he do? He immediately went out and brought in Stemler and Mike White to address his glaring need. Archie has done bupkis to address his and it's year 3. This is my biggest concern right now. I know we don’t agree on this, but I firmly believe Archie knows how to coach the game, I think he’s actually a good coach as far as the game goes. My concern is the recruiting. This team desparelty needs play makers and shooters at the guard and wing spots and I don’t see it. I like Phinisee. I like Franklin, Geronimo has potential to be an Oladipo/OG impact guy and fits the mold and I think he’ll add some very much needed athleticism, it seems like Leal can shoot, and Galloway seems like a Swiss Army knife type, but where is the guard that can just get buckets? Where is the Russ Smith, Trey Burke, Yogi, etc.? Where are the 3pt snipers? It’s not all about rankings and I’m not looking for a stream of one and dones, I like the get old, stay old mantra, but you still need highly ranked, impact guys at the guard and wing spots. Where are the top 50 or so, 4* guards/wings? I see a lot of guys ranked 100-150, but you also need top flight playmakers and guards. Everyone talks about Virginia and Villanova, but Guy and Jerome we’re both top 40 guys and Hunter was top 80. For Nova, Brunson was ranked 22nd and even Ryan Archiediacano was a top 50 recruit. Phil Booth, Josh Hart and Kris Jenkins were all top 80. This is just their guards and wings, they had other highly rated guys at other spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 31 minutes ago, 3Ballin said: Although he is not what was advertised as of yet, I think Hunter needs to get more minutes. Be them from Brunk (ideally, but not because of anything he has done wrong) or Smith who at the wing offers a lower ceiling and versatility than Hunter. Hunter also is more versitile than Anderson which is why I think he should be the one to do it, health pending. Same, but I’d like to see those minutes as a stretch 4 in a smaller lineup. He has a nice touch from the post, so let’s let him work there and get some confidence and then build his game out. I think he could be really good in the role Smith played last year once he’s healthy, conditioned and confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, BGleas said: Where are the top 50 or so, 4* guards/wings? We did get 2 in the 2018 class...#6 (Romeo) and #59 (Hunter). Also got a 4* 124 (Damezi) who had a reputation as a shooter... We know how that's turning out, but I'm not sure you can put it on Archie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, IUFLA said: We did get 2 in the 2018 class...#6 (Romeo) and #59 (Hunter). Also got a 4* 124 (Damezi) who had a reputation as a shooter... We know how that's turning out, but I'm not sure you can put it on Archie... And why shouldn’t this be put on Archie. He knew Romeo was leaving after a year. He recruited Damezi. Hunter had the injury sure but why not get a grad transfer that could have helped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 12 minutes ago, IUFLA said: We did get 2 in the 2018 class...#6 (Romeo) and #59 (Hunter). Also got a 4* 124 (Damezi) who had a reputation as a shooter... We know how that's turning out, but I'm not sure you can put it on Archie... That’s two guys, one of which everyone knew was a one and done. As far as Anderson, when I say 4*, I mean the old school Rivals ranking where I believe 4* stop at about 80. To me, a guy ranked 124 is a 3*. I guess semantics, but just how I categorize it in my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 3 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: And why shouldn’t this be put on Archie. He knew Romeo was leaving after a year. He recruited Damezi. Hunter had the injury sure but why not get a grad transfer that could have helped Because the very thing people say we're lacking he tried to address. Damezi had the reputation as a shooter in high school, and I believe we'll eventually see that transition to his college game. No one knew Hunter was going to have the medical issues. And I'm not sure it was a given Romeo was only staying one year. I haven't heard or read anything that said that Archie had been told that for certain. We all knew it was a possibility, but not with 100% certainty... As for grad transfer, ground already covered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BGleas Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 8 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: And why shouldn’t this be put on Archie. He knew Romeo was leaving after a year. He recruited Damezi. Hunter had the injury sure but why not get a grad transfer that could have helped Yes, fixing it is on Archie, but you have to admit that there have been some unforeseen circumstances. Phinisee’s propensity to get injured and especially Hunter getting some random condition. That doesn’t even count Race’s year long concussion and Langford tearing a ligament in his shooting hand. Hunter would be a much different player right now and his condition was completely random and unforeseen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, BGleas said: That’s two guys, one of which everyone knew was a one and done. As far as Anderson, when I say 4*, I mean the old school Rivals ranking where I believe 4* stop at about 80. To me, a guy ranked 124 is a 3*. I guess semantics, but just how I categorize it in my brain. Yes, but there also needed to be some balance...we needed a point guard and got Phinisee...needed a big, got Forrester...and the 3 wings...that was actually a pretty solid class (#10 nationally)... Geez guys, Archie has only had 3 real classes he's recruited...and one hasn't even shown up yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWIUFan Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: Geez guys, Archie has only had 3 real classes he's recruited...and one hasn't even shown up yet This is why we have to remain patient as stated by RMK. We won't know how good or bad CAM will ultimately be until he has his own recruits as Seniors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bedford1432 Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, FWIUFan said: This is why we have to remain patient as stated by RMK. We won't know how good or bad CAM will ultimately be until he has his own recruits as Seniors. That's utter nonsense to say you won't know how good a coach is for four years. A good coach is a good coach and you can see the signs much earlier than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, Bedford1432 said: That's utter nonsense to say you won't know how good a coach is for four years. A good coach is a good coach and you can see the signs much earlier than that. Not to steal Scott's argument, but do you think Duke fans "saw the signs" when he was 17-13, 10-17, and 11-17 his first 3 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 What I see started over and over is that we need a healthy Rob. Why is is our season reliant on one guy. Why does out failure to shoot the ball land on his shoulders. Why does our inability to defend the 3 depend on Rob. Why is our team structured so that a injury prone sophomore is the win/lose peice? We should be able to adust and respond to a missing peice. I get that he is our point guard but why does a div1 basketball team only have one serviceable ball handler? And every time I hear the excuse that we need to get healthy I just shake my head. This isn't last year. We have one injured player and we lay everything at his feet for every deficiency we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Because the very thing people say we're lacking he tried to address. Damezi had the reputation as a shooter in high school, and I believe we'll eventually see that transition to his college game. No one knew Hunter was going to have the medical issues. And I'm not sure it was a given Romeo was only staying one year. I haven't heard or read anything that said that Archie had been told that for certain. We all knew it was a possibility, but not with 100% certainty... As for grad transfer, ground already covered... Archie was 100% Sue he was gone. Stop pretending like that was a surprise and it’s Archie’s job to evaluate talent not rely on their reputation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Archie was 100% gone. Where did he go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 13 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Archie was 100% gone. Stop pretending like that was a surprise and it’s Archie’s job to evaluate talent not rely on their reputation I'm not pretending anything. We all knew it was a strong possibility, but, as I said, not with 100% certainty. And if we hadn't got Romeo, one and done or not, you would have bitched about that... And, as I pointed out, we did recruit 2 other wings in that class. The jury is still out on both. I'm sure Archie did evaluate them...numerous times...there's no certainty to how a recruit's game will transition to college. None at all... To me this is the proverbial tale of The Tortoise and the Hare. So some of you wanna be coaches, ADs, and GMs are just gonna have to wait...Archie's not going anywhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass Cannon Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, IUFLA said: I'm not pretending anything. We all knew it was a strong possibility, but, as I said, not with 100% certainty. And if we hadn't got Romeo, one and done or not, you would have bitched about that... And, as I pointed out, we did recruit 2 other wings in that class. The jury is still out on both. And I'm sure Archie did evaluate them...numerous times...there's no certainty to how a recruit's game will transition to college. None at all... To me this is the proverbial tale of The Tortoise and the Hare. So some of you wanna be coaches, ADs, and GMs are just gonna have to wait...Archie's not going anywhere... Damezi was a 37% shooter in high school. Pretty strong certainty that guy isn’t going to help your shooting. But yeah keep making ridiculous excuses. First year coach at Arkansas can have shooters but it’s insane we would have them in year 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 9 minutes ago, Brass Cannon said: Damezi was a 37% shooter in high school. Pretty strong certainty that guy isn’t going to help your shooting. But yeah keep making ridiculous excuses. First year coach at Arkansas can have shooters but it’s insane we would have them in year 3 Do you have any idea what Joe and Jones of Arkansas (the shooters I assume you're referring to) shoot percentage wise on 3 pointers for the year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5fouls Posted January 1, 2020 Report Share Posted January 1, 2020 Just now, IUFLA said: Do you have any idea what Joe and Jones of Arkansas (the shooters I assume you're referring to) shoot percentage wise on 3 pointers for the year? I;ll go out on a limb and say Devonte had a better percentage than either one of them going into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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