Illinois pregame 12/26 4PM ET

[Bustout]

23 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Remember the 1984 game at Illinois?  It was the freshmen and Uwe. Knight sent a message and got a ton of attention for it.   

How cool would it be if Rob and Al were benched?  As in they don’t play at all.  Maybe you don’t need to do it now against Illinois, but if this continues much longer, I’d love to see it.  

I think there would be value to rolling with more competitive, tougher kids with better motors.  Maybe there will be some freshmen mistakes but I’d love to see the young guys get extended play.

Lander, Franklin, Galloway, Thompson and Trayce   

Leal, Geronimo, Hunter off the bench.  

 

Great point. I don’t think Archie is there yet.  He’s a players guy.  In this day and age, fragile egos, etc ... two crappy halves don’t warrant it.  Yet.  

for some reason, I see the fellas responding tomorrow.  

[IU878176]

42 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Remember the 1984 game at Illinois?  It was the freshmen and Uwe. Knight sent a message and got a ton of attention for it.   

How cool would it be if Rob and Al were benched?  As in they don’t play at all.  Maybe you don’t need to do it now against Illinois, but if this continues much longer, I’d love to see it.  

I think there would be value to rolling with more competitive, tougher kids with better motors.  Maybe there will be some freshmen mistakes but I’d love to see the young guys get extended play.

Lander, Franklin, Galloway, Thompson and Trayce   

Leal, Geronimo, Hunter off the bench.  

 

I remember it VERY well. Myself and a couple of buddies, who were also IU grads, all had money on the game and settled in at a Chicago sports bar in time to hear the announcers say that Knight was sitting nearly all the starters. Needless to say our reaction was WTF. Helped to end my desire to bet on games

[Seeking6]

Here's the thing about Illinois. It's like the annoying gnat that just won't get away at a picnic. Occasional good season here or there and the only time they were relevant nationally was when Self turned the North Shore guys loose and Bubbles coached his recruits.....or obviously when Lou did his dirt. It's an annoying fan base and team that just doesn't understand hoops yet 1-2x a year we are somehow their biggest rival. Reminder Illini lurkers....7 of 9 we've won even during an obvious rebuild down time during our programs history.

Could go on and on about Underwood, Cockburn recruitment and a few other things. Maybe some other time. So much shade over there. 

 

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

49 minutes ago, Bustout said:

Your question is valid. For this team, it just comes down to giving TJD and Race a breather.  That’s all.  And it allows IU to play the same way.   Without him, the offense is adjusted to accommodate other personnel. He’s not Shaq nor Oden, but he’s a reliable body, smart and consistent. 

Doe having him in the line up help the offense though?  Or is he just a breather guy?

[Hippopotamo]

Brunk would allow TJD and Race to get a breather without losing too much size. Plus it’s another guy to use fouls and draw fouls. He’s a high level 3rd big and I think we’re really missing him on the court right now. 

[snowling]

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[NCHoosier32]

11 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Did I miss something last year where Brunk was this B1G powerhouse center who dominated underneath?  Did he get better and more minutes as the year went on?  I know having a big body to absorb fouls is helpful, but i am trying to remember how good Brunk really was?  Am i the only one who thinks he got worst as the season went on and was dominated most games by B1G bigs underneath?  And i am asking honestly here.  I remember a couple games where he had big numbers but i didn't think he was that impressive.  Am i that far off base?

it's not that Brunk would come in and score 20 and get 10 rebs.  it's that we don't have anyone that size and he's experienced.  he doesn't hurt you on the offensive end because he doesn't play out of his element.  i was in the camp that i actually wanted him to start coming in, but saw the light with Thompson's improvement.  so not saying Brunk would or should start, but would help tremendously when TJD is on the bench.  

[NCHoosier32]

10 hours ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Remember the 1984 game at Illinois?  It was the freshmen and Uwe. Knight sent a message and got a ton of attention for it.   

How cool would it be if Rob and Al were benched?  As in they don’t play at all.  Maybe you don’t need to do it now against Illinois, but if this continues much longer, I’d love to see it.  

I think there would be value to rolling with more competitive, tougher kids with better motors.  Maybe there will be some freshmen mistakes but I’d love to see the young guys get extended play.

Lander, Franklin, Galloway, Thompson and Trayce   

Leal, Geronimo, Hunter off the bench.  

 

this is the kind of thing i am all for as i grasp to hold on to old school.  however, i just don't think basketball society allows this kind of thing any more.  you can lose the team as the upper classmen basically revolt.  or you get kids transferring.  or possible future recruits won't come because of stories that a coach does that, etc.  i fully believe that if you have a team of guys who are that coachable and selfless and a coach who pushes it about as far as possible minus actual physical abuse, etc. that you could get more out of a team than being a players coach all the time and coddling.  it's just not the society or bball society we live in anymore.  when i first started coaching high school girls, my girls played really hard for me every day in practice and all game every game.  i treated them with respect, but i was very tough on them.  yelled and screamed, ranted and raved (but never used inappropriate language), made them run a bunch, etc.  i never buddy buddied with them.  didn't coddle them.  they never questioned me and i was able to push them to the best we could be.  over the years i got more and more talented teams and over my last few years, i had to adapt and try to make practices more fun, give them more days off, make practices shorter, loosen up, etc.  i truly truly believe we could have been better if i could have coached like i did when i started, but this was the only way i could get them to give me everything on game day.  it was exhausting for me to be someone i was not, and that was one of the reasons i gave it up when i did.  

[The Daily Hoosier]

Some background on Illinois and Archie Miller's thoughts on the game.

https://www.thedailyhoosier.com/iu-basketball-game-day-hoosiers-looking-for-a-bounce-back-win-at-illinois/

[Reacher]

If MN can beat Iowa, we can beat IL. I'm hoping we can bounce back with a win here. No idea what to expect with this team but a W will show that this conference is wide open. Lets start building our resume for the NCAAT!

[dgambill]

13 hours ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Doe having him in the line up help the offense though?  Or is he just a breather guy?

There is going to be several times this year during the B1G season teams are going to get Trayce in foul trouble...and we know how ineffective our team is without him. Having that true back up center is crucial. Purdue, Illinois, Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Michigan St are all going to test Trayce. They have elite bigs or can throw waves of bigs at him and Brunk was a big part of our front court. Maybe not offensively but defensively and rebounding. It’s why forcing Hunter to play the 4 is not working out. Unlike Smith Hunter can’t defend or rebound at that position. He just isn’t athletic or strong enough. He does space the floor but he just isn’t able to defend or hold his own like we need him to.

[IowaHoosierFan]

3 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

it's not that Brunk would come in and score 20 and get 10 rebs.  it's that we don't have anyone that size and he's experienced.  he doesn't hurt you on the offensive end because he doesn't play out of his element.  i was in the camp that i actually wanted him to start coming in, but saw the light with Thompson's improvement.  so not saying Brunk would or should start, but would help tremendously when TJD is on the bench.  

So taking Trace out and putting Brunk in doesn't hurt us offensively?  We will maintain the same level of offense with him in the game?

Sorry guys, i really must have under estimated how good Brunk was last year.  I will need to go look at his stats again and see how well he did

[NCHoosier32]

Just now, IowaHoosierFan said:

So taking Trace out and putting Brunk in doesn't hurt us offensively?  We will maintain the same level of offense with him in the game?

Sorry guys, i really must have under estimated how good Brunk was last year.  I will need to go look at his stats again and see how well he did

no.  not at all what i said.  you kind of have a knack for twisting words.  i'll give that to you!  so... of course it would be a HUGE drop off offensively from TJD to Brunk.  the point that i think most can see is that TJD doesn't play 40 minutes.  when he is out our current options are Thompson out of position at that spot or who else?  Hunter?  Brunk doesn't play out of his element offensively.  he won't shoot much, but can score inside, play tough D, and rebound with experience.  he is also a leader on this team.  so it's hard to say that we wouldn't be stronger if we had him to hold down the fort when TJD is out.  that's all i'm saying my man.  

[Hippopotamo]

2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

So taking Trace out and putting Brunk in doesn't hurt us offensively?  We will maintain the same level of offense with him in the game?

Sorry guys, i really must have under estimated how good Brunk was last year.  I will need to go look at his stats again and see how well he did

It’s not about Brunk being good. It’s about being an actual center who can spot minutes for TJD and Race. He’s not an amazing player by any stretch but he’s capable enough to hold down the fort for 10 minutes a game. Also keeps our other bigs out of foul trouble. 

[NCHoosier32]

4 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

So taking Trace out and putting Brunk in doesn't hurt us offensively?  We will maintain the same level of offense with him in the game?

Sorry guys, i really must have under estimated how good Brunk was last year.  I will need to go look at his stats again and see how well he did

but... while you check the stats, Brunk is actually our 4th leading returning scorer and 2nd leading returner in rebounds.  

[NCHoosier32]

Brunk also shot 52.2% from the field because he doesn't try to prove he is an outside shooter.

[dgambill]

Personally I wouldn’t have wanted Trayce guarding and banging Kofi or Garza or Williams or Dickinson etc 38 mins a game. He is going to get in foul trouble. There are times he would benefit playing the 4. Brunk would allow him to play off the ball and help block shots coming over to help and not expend so much energy playing opposing bigs banging down low. Benefit of Brunk is you not longer need to play Hunter at the 4 where he is getting eaten alive. 

[BGleas]

13 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

So taking Trace out and putting Brunk in doesn't hurt us offensively?  We will maintain the same level of offense with him in the game?

Sorry guys, i really must have under estimated how good Brunk was last year.  I will need to go look at his stats again and see how well he did

I think you are forgetting what Brunk can provide. Is he TJD? Absolutely not and nobody has said that. 

But he is a guy that started all of last season and had some big games. He's a guy that is 23 or 24, has experience at this level and can provide minutes at the 5 as a regular rotation player. He's a guy you don't want playing 20-25 minutes every night, but is certainly capable of providing that if you need him to for foul trouble, etc. Its not like having Jeremiah April as your backup 5. 

He's solid defensively, he's a smart, he plays hard, shoots a high percentage around the basket, and can bang with other teams centers. 

A good basketball team isn't about everybody being a star, you need guys to fill roles, you need role players, and Brunk being the backup 5 is an important role and one that IU doesn't have anybody to play currently. 

So yes, IU is a worse team for not having Brunk, for not having that role filled. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

8 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

no.  not at all what i said.  you kind of have a knack for twisting words.  i'll give that to you!  so... of course it would be a HUGE drop off offensively from TJD to Brunk.  the point that i think most can see is that TJD doesn't play 40 minutes.  when he is out our current options are Thompson out of position at that spot or who else?  Hunter?  Brunk doesn't play out of his element offensively.  he won't shoot much, but can score inside, play tough D, and rebound with experience.  he is also a leader on this team.  so it's hard to say that we wouldn't be stronger if we had him to hold down the fort when TJD is out.  that's all i'm saying my man.  

 

10 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

It’s not about Brunk being good. It’s about being an actual center who can spot minutes for TJD and Race. He’s not an amazing player by any stretch but he’s capable enough to hold down the fort for 10 minutes a game. Also keeps our other bigs out of foul trouble. 

 

I am just trying to make the point that Brunk is not our savior and he is not the reason we're going to win or lose games.  Our inability to score with anyone other than TJD is what is going to kill us.  We don't have a single person other than TJD that we can rely on to give you 15 points a game.  And Brunk is an average B1G player who can spell TJD a few minutes.  He may hurt us, he may not, it all depends on the team we're playing. 

But people are already trying to make excuses that we're going to lose games because we don't have him.  Can you imagine how our offense is going to look when TJD is on the bench and they don't have to double anyone?  I wouldn't play Brunk any more than a few minutes at a time unless some guard or wing steps up their game and becomes a consistent threat.

But what do i know.  I live in a cornfield in Iowa

 

 

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 minute ago, BGleas said:

I think you are forgetting what Brunk can provide. Is he TJD? Absolutely not and nobody has said that. 

But he is a guy that started all of last season and had some big games. He's a guy that is 23 or 24, has experience at this level and can provide minutes at the 5 as a regular rotation player. He's a guy you don't want playing 20-25 minutes every night, but is certainly capable of providing that if you need him to for foul trouble, etc. Its not like having Jeremiah April as your backup 5. 

He's solid defensively, he's a smart, he plays hard, shoots a high percentage around the basket, and can bang with other teams centers. 

A good basketball team isn't about everybody being a star, you need guys to fill roles, you need role players, and Brunk being the backup 5 is an important role and one that IU doesn't have anybody to play currently. 

So yes, IU is a worse team for not having Brunk, for not having that role filled. 

he was also a guy who lost more and more minutes as the season went on, once we got into B!G play.  Sorry, just don't think he is the reason we're going to win or lose games.  He is average at best

[Hippopotamo]

Brunk with 10 minutes per game prevents Hunter from getting absolutely bodied at the 4 all the time. It also keeps from TDJ and Race from having to guard those big centers on other teams. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

17 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

but... while you check the stats, Brunk is actually our 4th leading returning scorer and 2nd leading returner in rebounds.  

how many of those points came against our cupcake schedule early in the season?  What was his average in B1G play?

[IowaHoosierFan]

Just now, Hippopotamo said:

Brunk with 10 minutes per game prevents Hunter from getting absolutely bodied at the 4 all the time. It also keeps from TDJ and Race from having to guard those big centers on other teams. 

This is a good argument.  So now we're going to go back to our 3 big line-up?  You take hunter out and play Race, TJD and Brunk?

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

I am just trying to make the point that Brunk is not our savior and he is not the reason we're going to win or lose games. 

I think you're dead wrong on that point. He may not be the savior, but I think he could be the difference in a game where the other team has multiple good bigs...like Northwestern...

[Proud2BAHoosier]

Not too optimistic at all....