Illinois pregame 12/26 4PM ET

[IowaHoosierFan]

22 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

but... while you check the stats, Brunk is actually our 4th leading returning scorer and 2nd leading returner in rebounds.  

Overall totals including our cupcake games

Then conference averages. 

Not sure what these tell me, but its what i found

 

 

 

[bluegrassIU]

6 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

This is a good argument.  So now we're going to go back to our 3 big line-up?  You take hunter out and play Race, TJD and Brunk?

Man, you keep arguing against points nobody is making.

Brunk = depth. That is good.

When TJD goes out, we are better with Brunk being available than not.

Nobody is saying it is the single solution to winning more, or even the most important!

If that depth reduces the dropoff in those moments TJD is out, then yes....it may win an extra close game or two.

Nobody is saying he suddenly makes us super elite. Geesh

[IowaHoosierFan]

9 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

I think you're dead wrong on that point. He may not be the savior, but I think he could be the difference in a game where the other team has multiple good bigs...like Northwestern...

i disagree and think we have many more glaring issues that will cause us to lose besides Joey Brunk being on the bench.  Like our coach not having more than 1 true big.   But that's why we're here.  To discuss things we know almost nothing about, well things i know nothing about, lol

[IowaHoosierFan]

2 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Man, you keep arguing against points nobody is making.

Brunk = depth. That is good.

When TJD goes out, we are better with Brunk being available than not.

Nobody is saying it is the single solution to winning more, or even the most important!

If that depth reduces the dropoff in those moments TJD is out, then yes....it may win an extra close game or two.

Nobody is saying he suddenly makes us super elite. Geesh

i disagree that he makes us better when TJD is out.  I would rather play 5 guards and run the floor when TJD is on the bench.  Brunk makes us even slower and is not on most night an offensive threat.  Average athlete, below average scorer. free throw %, and Rebounder.  Just a big body to absorb fouls.

 

[bluegrassIU]

Just now, IowaHoosierFan said:

i disagree and think we have many more glaring issues that will cause us to lose besides Joey Brunk being on the bench.  Like our coach not having more than 1 true big.   But thats why we're here.  To discuss things we know almost nothing about lol

 

2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i disagree that he makes us better when TJD is out.  I would rather play 5 guards and run the floor when TJD is on the bench.  Brunk makes us even slower and is not on most night an offensive threat.  Average athlete, below average scorer. free throw %, and Rebounder.  Just a big body to absorb fouls.

 

So you feel we are a better team if Brunk just doesn't play, basically ever?

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

This is a good argument.  So now we're going to go back to our 3 big line-up?  You take hunter out and play Race, TJD and Brunk?

No never...but instead of Race and Hunter or Trayce and Hunter you can play Brunk Trayce or Brunk Race or Brunk Hunter. Brunk would be the second best rebounder we have. Even better than Race. He is fundamentally sound and blocks out and limits second chance points. He just allows people to play their natural positions when he comes into the game. Do you want Trayce trying to bang Garza or Kofi for 40 mins? His 10-12 mins a game would allow for much better lineups and people to play in position of strength instead of trying to do things they can’t. We are better because everyone else can play their best position. I don’t think Brunk is what is keeping this team from being a top 15 team or anything but he is someone that without him is going to hurt us in some games. That flexibility is gone. I think the need for Joey will be more evident as the season goes along. 

[BGleas]

25 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

he was also a guy who lost more and more minutes as the season went on, once we got into B!G play.  Sorry, just don't think he is the reason we're going to win or lose games.  He is average at best

Again, basketball teams need role players, not just stars. We have no backup 5 right now and Brunk is a very capable one, potentially a really good one. I dont know why that is hard to understand. 

Look at the Lakers last year. LeBron and AD were the reason they won the title, but with that said Dwight Howard, Rondo and Caldwell-Pope were critical to their success. Howard, as the backup 5, played key minutes in the WCF defending Jokic. He caused Jokic to get into foul trouble in a few games and made it so AD didn't have to defend him with their 2nd unit. 

My '08 Celtics picked up an aging PJ Brown in March that year. Pierce, KG and Ray Allen are the reason they won, but make no mistake they don't win that title without what Brown provided as the backup big. 

Role players matter and IU is missing an important one in Brunk. His losing minutes last year is irrelevant because the loss of minutes essentially made him the backup big, which would be the role he'd be asked to play this year. 

You can argue there isn't a more experienced backup 5 in the Big Ten and that isn't just some throwaway role. 

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i disagree and think we have many more glaring issues that will cause us to lose besides Joey Brunk being on the bench.  Like our coach not having more than 1 true big.   But that's why we're here.  To discuss things we know almost nothing about, well things i know nothing about, lol

Not getting what you're driving at....you argue having Brunk ready to play isn't all that important, yet skewer Archie for only having "one true big"?

You do realize that Joey was ok up until right after Hoosier Hysteria, right? At that point, CAM had 4 players (TJD, Race, Joey, and Jerome) for 2 positions, and it insured that we could, if necessary, keep one "true" big on the floor at all times.

If you're slanting toward we should have had another "true big" under scholarship, the obvious question becomes who? Who could have come in with the promise of playing behind TJD, Race, and Joey that would have been worth 2 cents? A freshman? 

 

[NCHoosier32]

i think we all just have to agree to disagree with IowaHoosier.  he's arguing things that we're not even saying and not listening to what everyone else agrees on.  that's okay.  we can agree to disagree.  

[dgambill]

14 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

i disagree and think we have many more glaring issues that will cause us to lose besides Joey Brunk being on the bench.  Like our coach not having more than 1 true big.   But that's why we're here.  To discuss things we know almost nothing about, well things i know nothing about, lol

Now I don’t know what we are even arguing....Joey is that other true big you are asking for. I’m going to go have lunch. Maybe my hunger is making me ignorant of what we are even talking about.

[IowaHoosierFan]

Ok.

You guys have given compelling evidence to change my point of view.  Joey Brunk is a needed member of the basketball team.  He will allow us to give TJD a spell where he can hold the fort in the lane.  He is our 4th best returning scorer (for whatever that is worth).  He is a true big and bang around with the big boys of the B1G.

I am now fully in the Joey Brunk fan club.  We definitely need him to win games this year.

Color me convinced.

[IowaHoosierFan]

2 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i think we all just have to agree to disagree with IowaHoosier.  he's arguing things that we're not even saying and not listening to what everyone else agrees on.  that's okay.  we can agree to disagree.  

That isn't true.  I responded to each response directly with my argument.  But you guys have convinced me with your good solid arguments for Joey Brunk.  I am now team Brunk

[IowaHoosierFan]

8 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Again, basketball teams need role players, not just stars. We have no backup 5 right now and Brunk is a very capable one, potentially a really good one. I dont know why that is hard to understand. 

Look at the Lakers last year. LeBron and AD were the reason they won the title, but with that said Dwight Howard, Rondo and Caldwell-Pope were critical to their success. Howard, as the backup 5, played key minutes in the WCF defending Jokic. He caused Jokic to get into foul trouble in a few games and made it so AD didn't have to defend him with their 2nd unit. 

My '08 Celtics picked up an aging PJ Brown in March that year. Pierce, KG and Ray Allen are the reason they won, but make no mistake they don't win that title without what Brown provided as the backup big. 

Role players matter and IU is missing an important one in Brunk. His losing minutes last year is irrelevant because the loss of minutes essentially made him the backup big, which would be the role he'd be asked to play this year. 

You can argue there isn't a more experienced backup 5 in the Big Ten and that isn't just some throwaway role. 

You guys made fantastic arguments and i am full on the Brunk train now.  I am team Brunk all the way now

[dgambill]

6 minutes ago, BGleas said:

Again, basketball teams need role players, not just stars. We have no backup 5 right now and Brunk is a very capable one, potentially a really good one. I dont know why that is hard to understand. 

Look at the Lakers last year. LeBron and AD were the reason they won the title, but with that said Dwight Howard, Rondo and Caldwell-Pope were critical to their success. Howard, as the backup 5, played key minutes in the WCF defending Jokic. He caused Jokic to get into foul trouble in a few games and made it so AD didn't have to defend him with their 2nd unit. 

My '08 Celtics picked up an aging PJ Brown in March that year. Pierce, KG and Ray Allen are the reason they won, but make no mistake they don't win that title without what Brown provided as the backup big. 

Role players matter and IU is missing an important one in Brunk. His losing minutes last year is irrelevant because the loss of minutes essentially made him the backup big, which would be the role he'd be asked to play this year. 

You can argue there isn't a more experienced backup 5 in the Big Ten and that is just some throwaway role. 

Yep...if Joey Brunk isn’t the very guy that would be the most helpful in giving us minutes guarding and keeping guys like Garza, Kofi, Dickinson, and Williams/Edy then I don’t know who we would want. Giving Trayce a blow or allowing him to slide over to the 4 some to keep him out of foul trouble would be huge this year. We are going to see some of the best/most physical bigs in the country over the next month. Joey would be helpful...and can be a part of the reason we might pull out a game or two...or drop one. Everyone is important to our success. We are a flawed team certainly but Joey makes us a little better.

[NCHoosier32]

2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

That isn't true.  I responded to each response directly with my argument.  But you guys have convinced me with your good solid arguments for Joey Brunk.  I am now team Brunk

no problem.  i might sense a little sarcasm, but you really don't have to agree with us.  i have times where i disagree with the majority of the posters.  it just seemed like you were arguing things we weren't saying.   

[IUFLA]

16 minutes ago, dgambill said:

No never...but instead of Race and Hunter or Trayce and Hunter you can play Brunk Trayce or Brunk Race or Brunk Hunter. Brunk would be the second best rebounder we have. Even better than Race. He is fundamentally sound and blocks out and limits second chance points. He just allows people to play their natural positions when he comes into the game. Do you want Trayce trying to bang Garza or Kofi for 40 mins? His 10-12 mins a game would allow for much better lineups and people to play in position of strength instead of trying to do things they can’t. We are better because everyone else can play their best position. I don’t think Brunk is what is keeping this team from being a top 15 team or anything but he is someone that without him is going to hurt us in some games. That flexibility is gone. I think the need for Joey will be more evident as the season goes along. 

Early in the Northwestern game, Miller Kopp had the hot hand. He scored 8 of their first 10 points. We had Armann on him, giving up 3 inches. Kopp is a good shooter who can make them under duress. I was thinking at that point, if Joey was available, we could have switched Race on him. Race's size and athleticism might have made a difference. But that would have left someone 6'7 or less on the likes of Nance, Beran, or Young (all 6'10 plus and good post up players), and that would have been disastrous. That, to me is where Joey would give us flexibility. 

[BGleas]

3 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Ok.

You guys have given compelling evidence to change my point of view.  Joey Brunk is a needed member of the basketball team.  He will allow us to give TJD a spell where he can hold the fort in the lane.  He is our 4th best returning scorer (for whatever that is worth).  He is a true big and bang around with the big boys of the B1G.

I am now fully in the Joey Brunk fan club.  We definitely need him to win games this year.

Color me convinced.

Obviously nobody is going to change your mind, though I do find your stance on this fairly odd, but hey if we all agreed this wouldn't be fun. 

I'll just say this, NW doesn't win that game Wednesday without their backup 5. Their starter, Nance, got into early fould trouble and their backup 5 who started all of last year came in and not only held the fort on TJD but then actually went on a bit of a scoring run when TJD went out and we had no backup 5. 

He wasn't the reason they won, but they probably don't win without him eating those minutes when Nance went out and taking advantage of IU's lack of a backup 5. 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Early in the Northwestern game, Miller Kopp had the hot hand. He scored 8 of their first 10 points. We had Armann on him, giving up 3 inches. Kopp is a good shooter who can make them under duress. I was thinking at that point, if Joey was available, we could have switched Race on him. Race's size and athleticism might have made a difference. But that would have left someone 6'7 or less on the likes of Nance, Beran, or Young (all 6'10 plus and good post up players), and that would have been disastrous. That, to me is where Joey would give us flexibility. 

Should never say never but I mean hardly hardly ever.

[IUFLA]

Just now, dgambill said:

Should never say never but I mean hardly hardly ever.

I knew what you were saying, and I agree...but with some teams it would dictate all 3 be in at once, with Race filling the Justin Smith role...

Just as when we play teams like Penn St it will dictate a smaller, quicker lineup that can guard the perimeter. I'd say we could go with one big and 4 guards vs them...

[dgambill]

I think MAYBE what Iowa was getting at was going small ball is a better solution then playing Brunk who slows our team down and doesn’t give us a lot of offensive upside. That can be certainly possible. Arguable to me but possible. I can see wanting to go smaller, more agile but there are just some teams and lineups I just don’t think will work. Honestly even going smaller/faster given our issues shooting that has issues. I’d love to be like the old GS teams or say Villanova from a few years ago...but our guards aren’t even good shooters...so going small just means we get manhandled and we don’t see a big shooting advantage because of how poorly we shoot. Our best shot is still getting the ball in the post...and I’d rather have a Brunk post up then an Al jump shot.

[Hippopotamo]

44 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

This is a good argument.  So now we're going to go back to our 3 big line-up?  You take hunter out and play Race, TJD and Brunk?

I don’t think you play those 3 together. You can rotate so 2 are on the court most of the time and sprinkle in a little bit of Hunter/Geronimo. Basically Brunk gives a little more flexibility to match up with the opponent and stay a little more fresh. 

[Jackson Kellogs]

23 hours ago, Hoosierfan1901 said:

Prepare for an bloodbath or a tossup game 

I couldn’t find the channel

Fox Sports 1

[Hoosierhoopster]

17 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Should never say never but I mean hardly hardly ever.

Sounds like a line in a country song. Lol 

[5 championships]

Missing Brunk is huge loss  for the team. Really need a backup center. When TJD goes out we get bullied inside with Race at 5 and Hunter at 4. It will get worse In the BIG. Really missing Brunk for those 10-15 minutes a game. I wish Arch would of added a grad transfer big before the season in case one of Brunk/Race/TJd went down due to injury. Especially due to IU luck with injury’s the last few years you had to think at least one of them was going to miss time at some point.

[Hoosierhoopster]

Definitely agree losing the front-court depth that Brunk brought, along with his on-court leadership, hurts. Honestly don't see how anyone could argue to the contrary -- really more a degree of how much and how and with whom he would've been played, but the dude helps and especially against larger front lines.

Race, however, is really progressing. He needs to be the second-half NWU game Race that we just saw. He was strong on both ends (but also needs to avoid stupid fouls, he had a couple at the rim after a guy got through). While losing Brunk hurts, we do have the athleticism, experience, quickness and length on both ends to compete well, imo.

Objectively, our D is doing well, it's our offense that is in question.