Penn State Post-Game Thread

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, RoadToZion said:

Galloway is our second best player behind TJD. 

I’d say Franklin probably is because he is a two way player but I would say Galloway is one of our most important players and should start because of all the ways he effects the game. Once the game slows down for him watch out. I said in the game thread he reminds me of Damon Bailey. He is a little more out of control and careless with the ball but the way he effects the game without taking very many shots...we haven’t had a fundamental guard like him since Damon. Just my humble opinion

[dgambill]

1 hour ago, NCHoosier32 said:

one thing i'll say about this - as a coach, i always believed that you need to get a guy in at least a minute or two in the 1st half if you think you might even possibly need him in the 2nd half.  it's tough to put a guy in cold for his first action in the 2nd half of a close game.  so maybe he wanted to at least get KL on the floor, then decided the 2nd half was close and the other guys were playing well and decided to never put him back in.  still can't see why he wouldn't play at least 3-4 minutes a half though.   

Agreed. Let’s be honest too...Rob and Al found their game tonight especially in the second half. Hard to take them out...and Trey and Armaan weren’t playing necessarily poorly. I think if those two would have struggled he would have got more run. All I know is if Justin Smith and Al Durham started seeing their minutes increase as freshman toward the end of the year no reason Lander wont either.

[Fiveoutofsix]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

I’d say Franklin probably is because he is a two way player but I would say Galloway is one of our most important players and should start because of all the ways he effects the game. Once the game slows down for him watch out. I said in the game thread he reminds me of Damon Bailey. He is a little more out of control and careless with the ball but the way he effects the game without taking very many shots...we haven’t had a fundamental guard like him since Damon. Just my humble opinion

Franklin might be our most important player.  He guards the best player and he is just getting better and better.  

Trayce is our best pro prospect who gets playing time and is up there with AF 

Galloway is the glue guy.  He is the kid no ones wants to play against.  

[jefftheref]

21 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i do feel like we got calls.  the one on TJD was a fairly big call that we got at a big time and they could have called that one on Rob and even the very last shot.  of course i think all of them were the right calls, but they were close and big calls and they all went to us and we still only won by 2 in OT vs. PSU.  

The no call on Rob was a good one in my opinion. The shooter was falling falling back on his shot .

A shooter is to be protected but Rob did nothing wrong .

[jefftheref]

Just now, Fiveoutofsix said:

Franklin might be our most important player.  He guards the best player and he is just getting better and better.  

Trayce is our best pro prospect who gets playing time and is up there with AF 

Galloway is the glue guy.  He is the kid no ones wants to play against.  

Galloway reminds me of Steve Eyl.

[KoB2011]

1 hour ago, IU Scott said:

Actually it was afoul because RP didn't give him space to come down.

No, Hummel was wrong. 

[BGleas]

33 minutes ago, madmax said:

 

This is partly why I defend Archie a lot. 

People complaining about our offense in a game we score 80+ points and shoot nearly 60%.

People complaining about how bad our zone offense is in the first half last night and the NW game. Our zone offense has been fantastic for the most part since Archie got here. 

I share many of the same frustrations as the fans that don't think Archie is getting it done, but I also get very frustrated with people complaining about things that just aren't there.

We have enough to complain about with the program, we don't need to invent issues that aren't there. 

[BobSaccamanno]

I totally agree.  I like our offense against the zone.  I think people still have PTSD from Crean’s zone offense and are projecting. 

[BobSaccamanno]

26 minutes ago, jefftheref said:

Galloway reminds me of Steve Eyl.

He’s not one of the 13 best players, but if I made my favorite all time IU roster, I make a spot for Eyl.  Could guard three positions, help handle the ball, get some boards, use his athleticism, be tough as nails.   I would take a guy like that in my rotation every year.  

I think Galloway brings a lot of that.  Love the kid’s game.  He’s one of my favorites.  He’s playing to win at all costs.  

[Hoosierdave]

A win is a win this year in the big ten, but finding a way to lose that like 9-10 point lead and allowing your opponent to crawl back into it with two minutes left in regulation doesn’t exactly give me tremendous confidence for the future. Especially when you consider this is year 4 with CAM and we were up against an Interim Coach...

I think what makes this team not AP ranked/so frustrating is that other than TJD, I can never tell you who I expect on the score cards to show up. I’m super happy to see Rob and Al respond to the call and I hope this is the turning point for them. I feel like any good team naturally has a 1-2 punch, which I think were slowly but surely getting that with TJD and Franklin. If guys like Race, Rob, and Galloway can continue to develop, I think we can crack the top 25.

Lastly, am I the only one that thought the players/bench’s body language sucked? I can’t tell whether they were gassed but usually a guy like TJD screams after an And-1 etc but they all seemed quiet and nervous. 

[Lostin76]

1 hour ago, BGleas said:

I think there is validity to this. IU has lacked toughness, which is frustrating for me because I thought that would be one of the things Archie would instill right off the back with his own temperament and persona. For 4 years I've kind of felt that Archie has struggled to develop his identity into the team. 

 

This has really been bothering me as well. I expected us to out-tough and out-hustle teams under Archie. We are not doing that yet, but I feel like Galloway, Race, and AF can do that for us. When I was watching the end of the NW game, I couldn’t help but admire their fire and toughness. They just went for it and we didn’t. 

 

[Hoosierhoopster]

5 minutes ago, Hoosierdave said:

A win is a win this year in the big ten, but finding a way to lose that like 9-10 point lead and allowing your opponent to crawl back into it with two minutes left in regulation doesn’t exactly give me tremendous confidence for the future. Especially when you consider this is year 4 with CAM and we were up against an Interim Coach...

I think what makes this team not AP ranked/so frustrating is that other than TJD, I can never tell you who I expect on the score cards to show up. I’m super happy to see Rob and Al respond to the call and I hope this is the turning point for them. I feel like any good team naturally has a 1-2 punch, which I think were slowly but surely getting that with TJD and Franklin. If guys like Race, Rob, and Galloway can continue to develop, I think we can crack the top 25.

Lastly, am I the only one that thought the players/bench’s body language sucked? I can’t tell whether they were gassed but usually a guy like TJD screams after an And-1 etc but they all seemed quiet and nervous. 

See mchenry's post above about TJD's body language. Something to watch -- I really didn't catch it during the game but it makes sense, considering his lack of hustle/effort in the last game he probably caught a bunch of (deserved) flack. He's the team's stud, he has to lead by example, not just his clear talent.

Our D in this game wasn't good -- but that's the aberration, our D is usually top flight, so I see no worries there, at all. And PSU guards are pretty damn good, and were hitting shots. They fought their way back to force OT -- but our guys still won, beating the momentum. Always two ways to look at a result but I'll take that result any day and see a lot of positives in making the defensive adjustment at the end from switching and closing out the game despite the momentum. That takes composure, along with the adjustment.

Race is a guy I've been watching. He keeps disappearing, but he's clearly (to me) made a big jump from last year, he's just not being consistently aggressive offensively. He needs to throw that switch to being aggressive, and I'd like to see him take some more outside shots to go with his inside game.

[HoosierFaithful]

28 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This is partly why I defend Archie a lot. 

People complaining about our offense in a game we score 80+ points and shoot nearly 60%.

People complaining about how bad our zone offense is in the first half last night and the NW game. Our zone offense has been fantastic for the most part since Archie got here. 

I share many of the same frustrations as the fans that don't think Archie is getting it done, but I also get very frustrated with people complaining about things that just aren't there.

We have enough to complain about with the program, we don't need to invent issues that aren't there. 

Most of us don’t know the first thing about basketball, despite how we might protest that claim. 
 

 

[rico]

2 minutes ago, HoosierFaithful said:

Most of us don’t know the first thing about basketball, despite how we might protest that claim. 
 

 

I disagree.  I think most here know a lot about basketball.  Unfortunately, not many here know about coaching it at a major D-1 level.

[BobSaccamanno]

Regarding our offense, overall it hasn’t been there yet.  There are positive signs though if you look under the hood.

I’ve been happy with the ball movement.  It’s even literally beautiful to watch at times.  I think it can be the sound, smart Indiana offense we want.  

Last night, we got good production from our two veteran guards who have been under a microscope (and rightfully so IMO).  Look at the points we put up when we got good guard production.  So for all of the criticism of Archie, imagine if he had two consistently productive guards.  Perhaps our offense would look good.  

Really, in terms of go-to scorers, we obviously have Trayce and an emerging Armaan.  But we lack that third guy at this time.  The rest of the guys are more support level scorers, not the types of guys who you can unleash to go get buckets.  Archie has landed a lot of tough kids, which is awesome. But we do need to land some more dynamic scorers and shooters.  

My point is that we are all frustrated but we might just need to be patient.  It might not be our current staff and they might be capable.  

The defense according to the metrics guys was top ten until last night.  I can’t explain last night’s nosedive, but looking at it as a whole, the defense has been really good.  Hopefully last night proves to be an outlier on defense and a sign of things to come on offense.  

Of course, in the end it won’t be about any deeper analysis.  It will be far more binary.  He will either win enough games or he won’t.  I’m in the optimistic camp.  

[rico]

5 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Regarding our offense, overall it hasn’t been there yet.  There are positive signs though if you look under the hood.

I’ve been happy with the ball movement.  It’s even literally beautiful to watch at times.  I think it can be the sound, smart Indiana offense we want.  

Last night, we got good production from our two veteran guards who have been under a microscope (and rightfully so IMO).  Look at the points we put up when we got good guard production.  So for all of the criticism of Archie, imagine if he had two consistently productive guards.  Perhaps our offense would look good.  

Really, in terms of go-to scorers, we obviously have Trayce and an emerging Armaan.  But we lack that third guy at this time.  The rest of the guys are more support level scorers, not the types of guys who you can unleash to go get buckets.  Archie has landed a lot of tough kids, which is awesome. But we do need to land some more dynamic scorers and shooters.  

My point is that we are all frustrated but we might just need to be patient.  It might not be our current staff and they might be capable.  

The defense according to the metrics guys was top ten until last night.  I can’t explain last night’s nosedive, but looking at it as a whole, the defense has been really good.  Hopefully last night proves to be an outlier on defense and a sign of things to come on offense.  

Of course, in the end it won’t be about any deeper analysis.  It will be far more binary.  He will either win enough games or he won’t.  I’m in the optimistic camp.  

That is all unicorns and sprinkles.  I am still pissed at that Texas debacle.  LOL

[IowaHoosierFan]

19 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Regarding our offense, overall it hasn’t been there yet.  There are positive signs though if you look under the hood.

I’ve been happy with the ball movement.  It’s even literally beautiful to watch at times.  I think it can be the sound, smart Indiana offense we want.  

Last night, we got good production from our two veteran guards who have been under a microscope (and rightfully so IMO).  Look at the points we put up when we got good guard production.  So for all of the criticism of Archie, imagine if he had two consistently productive guards.  Perhaps our offense would look good.  

Really, in terms of go-to scorers, we obviously have Trayce and an emerging Armaan.  But we lack that third guy at this time.  The rest of the guys are more support level scorers, not the types of guys who you can unleash to go get buckets.  Archie has landed a lot of tough kids, which is awesome. But we do need to land some more dynamic scorers and shooters.  

My point is that we are all frustrated but we might just need to be patient.  It might not be our current staff and they might be capable.  

The defense according to the metrics guys was top ten until last night.  I can’t explain last night’s nosedive, but looking at it as a whole, the defense has been really good.  Hopefully last night proves to be an outlier on defense and a sign of things to come on offense.  

Of course, in the end it won’t be about any deeper analysis.  It will be far more binary.  He will either win enough games or he won’t.  I’m in the optimistic camp.  

Our offense is good against mediocre teams.  Its when we play teams that have good talent across the board that we cannot seem to do anything.  It could easily be the difference between team with Top 75 ranked kids and out 150-250 level kids we're playing at the guard position.  I think Lander would a better option on offense and would help transform it into something more easily to watch, but his defense is not good enough for CAM to use him.  He won't give up defensive efficiencies over offense.

[KoB2011]

2 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Our offense is good against mediocre teams.  Its when we play teams that have good talent across the board that we cannot seem to do anything.  It could easily be the difference between team with Top 75 ranked kids and out 150-250 level kids we're playing at the guard position.  I think Lander would a better option on offense and would help transform it into something more easily to watch, but his defense is not good enough for CAM to use him.  He won't give up defensive efficiencies over offense.

Stanford has a top ten defense and we dropped 79...

[bluegrassIU]

26 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Regarding our offense, overall it hasn’t been there yet.  There are positive signs though if you look under the hood.

I’ve been happy with the ball movement.  It’s even literally beautiful to watch at times.  I think it can be the sound, smart Indiana offense we want.  

Last night, we got good production from our two veteran guards who have been under a microscope (and rightfully so IMO).  Look at the points we put up when we got good guard production.  So for all of the criticism of Archie, imagine if he had two consistently productive guards.  Perhaps our offense would look good.  

Really, in terms of go-to scorers, we obviously have Trayce and an emerging Armaan.  But we lack that third guy at this time.  The rest of the guys are more support level scorers, not the types of guys who you can unleash to go get buckets.  Archie has landed a lot of tough kids, which is awesome. But we do need to land some more dynamic scorers and shooters.  

My point is that we are all frustrated but we might just need to be patient.  It might not be our current staff and they might be capable.  

The defense according to the metrics guys was top ten until last night.  I can’t explain last night’s nosedive, but looking at it as a whole, the defense has been really good.  Hopefully last night proves to be an outlier on defense and a sign of things to come on offense.  

Of course, in the end it won’t be about any deeper analysis.  It will be far more binary.  He will either win enough games or he won’t.  I’m in the optimistic camp.  

Re: last night

PSU is good offensively. Top 20 per kenpom.

With that said, we had clear lapses as well.

[KoB2011]

11 minutes ago, bluegrassIU said:

Re: last night

PSU is good offensively. Top 20 per kenpom.

With that said, we had clear lapses as well.

Right, last night was a combination of things: a good offensive team, some defensive lapses, and some tough shots that they just made. 

Out defensive strategy is to make teams hit tough shots, that's how the packline operates. That definitely was happening last night in conjunction with our lapses. 

[BGleas]

This is what I mean by something just seems to be missing. Every year the defense gets better and for most of this season has been borderline elite. The offense gets better each season, and while I wouldn't call it elite yet, I would say this season is the best the offense and shooting has been under Archie. This feels like the biggest offensive leap the program has had since he's been here.

We're not a great shooting team yet, but we're not bad either like other years. There is definitely improvement there. Offensively, the ball movement and people movement is infinitely better, etc.

Everything is trending in the right direction. Yet, here we are again at 6-4 and 1-2 in the conference with what feels like little prospects to finish higher than 8th or so in the conference. That's not my prediction and I'm not saying IU can't turn it on and do better, it just feels like everything is getting better, but then it's not. 

There's just something missing. We need the wins to come at some point. 

[IU Scott]

16 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This is what I mean by something just seems to be missing. Every year the defense gets better and for most of this season has been borderline elite. The offense gets better each season, and while I wouldn't call it elite yet, I would say this season is the best the offense and shooting has been under Archie. This feels like the biggest offensive leap the program has had since he's been here.

We're not a great shooting team yet, but we're not bad either like other years. There is definitely improvement there. Offensively, the ball movement and people movement is infinitely better, etc.

Everything is trending in the right direction. Yet, here we are again at 6-4 and 1-2 in the conference with what feels like little prospects to finish higher than 8th or so in the conference. That's not my prediction and I'm not saying IU can't turn it on and do better, it just feels like everything is getting better, but then it's not. 

There's just something missing. We need the wins to come at some point. 

I said that last night where you just can't put your finger on what is missing.  I know we watch IU a lot closer than other teams but it seems like this team just don't show emotion like other teams.  I don't know if we have that vocal leader who will say enough is enough and get into the players when they are not giving the effort.

[Parakeet Jones]

13 minutes ago, BGleas said:

This is what I mean by something just seems to be missing. Every year the defense gets better and for most of this season has been borderline elite. The offense gets better each season, and while I wouldn't call it elite yet, I would say this season is the best the offense and shooting has been under Archie. This feels like the biggest offensive leap the program has had since he's been here.

We're not a great shooting team yet, but we're not bad either like other years. There is definitely improvement there. Offensively, the ball movement and people movement is infinitely better, etc.

Everything is trending in the right direction. Yet, here we are again at 6-4 and 1-2 in the conference with what feels like little prospects to finish higher than 8th or so in the conference. That's not my prediction and I'm not saying IU can't turn it on and do better, it just feels like everything is getting better, but then it's not. 

There's just something missing. We need the wins to come at some point. 

Just a thought. When we compare our improvement against ourselves we can see incremental progress and say, “Hey, we are improving every year.”  When we compare our progress against other B1G programs, we see them, improving at a greater rate than us. For every step we’ve taken, Rutgers has taken three, etc.  So our improvement isn’t keeping pace with the rest of the B1G.  That’s one of the things, maybe the main thing, that troubles me. 
 

Like I said, just a thought I’ve had. 

[BGleas]

23 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

I said that last night where you just can't put your finger on what is missing.  I know we watch IU a lot closer than other teams but it seems like this team just don't show emotion like other teams.  I don't know if we have that vocal leader who will say enough is enough and get into the players when they are not giving the effort.

Completly agree, and this may be what is most frustrating to me about the Archie era. 

I thought we were getting a fiery Izzo-type guy, and at times he seems like that. But, in 4 years his teams could not be further from that. 

Where is the fire? Where is the passion? Where is the emotion? Where are guys like DJ White, Thomas Bryant, Oladipo, Sheehey, etc. that are going to yell, scream and get their team and the fans fired up after a big play?

I'm not saying the entire team has to be that, but we've had almost none of that in 4 years. 

For 4 years we seem to make a huge play and then just walk slowly to the free throw line like nothing happened, or make a huge play and then just trot slowly back to the other end fairly indifferent. 

To steal from Tom Allen, where is the love? We just seem like a bunch of guys playing basketball together, not a program of guys that care for each other and the team. 

 

[BGleas]

19 minutes ago, Parakeet Jones said:

Just a thought. When we compare our improvement against ourselves we can see incremental progress and say, “Hey, we are improving every year.”  When we compare our progress against other B1G programs, we see them, improving at a greater rate than us. For every step we’ve taken, Rutgers has taken three, etc.  So our improvement isn’t keeping pace with the rest of the B1G.  That’s one of the things, maybe the main thing, that troubles me. 
 

Like I said, just a thought I’ve had. 

I can't disagree with that. There needs to be a "leap" at some point.