Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[Bowhunter]

Can we change the name of the thread to retire Mike Woodson?

[Indykev]

 

[NCHoosier32]

47 minutes ago, Bowhunter said:

Can we change the name of the thread to retire Mike Woodson?

i'd like to propose, "Please do what's best for Indiana University and retire Coach Woodson."

[13th&Jackson]

21 minutes ago, Indykev said:

 

That’s really interesting because you’ll have coaches you believe are locked up, but they get a big pay raise by their current school and end up staying. They won’t notify their current AD until the season’s over. Plus, how do you hire a coach in the tournament.?

[dbmhoosier]

The Chris guy on BTB says according to Trilly Donovan IU has started putting out feelers to some coaches and agents. 

Edited February 16 by dbmhoosier

[SawatchHoosier]

10 hours ago, IUFLA said:

Did they have anything positive to say last year?

Pointing out that Woody benefitted from TJD and JHS is as absurd as me pointing out that two of the pessimists favorites, Musselman and Beard, got smoked last night and their current records aren't exactly glowing. Or bitching about where people sit on the bench for that matter...

People always say we're trying to "shut down the conversation." No I'm not... Converse away... But as I said before, if I see something that's a sham argument, should I just let it stand?

You guys are the ones who don't like pushback on anything you say. No matter how petty or absurd... 

Regarding the Woody benefited comments I still think there’s no way that TJD gets drafted by Golden State and plays significant minutes this year without CMW’s development. Additionally, I didn’t recall JHS being slated to be a lottery pick at the beginning of last year. He was 1st round but not a lottery pick. I feel Woodson utilized him well. 

[SawatchHoosier]

3 hours ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

Next BOT meeting is 2/29 

Bring your signs and leaflets just leave your poles and sticks at home 

@IU Scott Their email address is there for you as well

Can I fart? 

[jefftheref]

25 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Can I fart? 

Only if it is an SBD!

[rico]

53 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Regarding the Woody benefited comments I still think there’s no way that TJD gets drafted by Golden State and plays significant minutes this year without CMW’s development. Additionally, I didn’t recall JHS being slated to be a lottery pick at the beginning of last year. He was 1st round but not a lottery pick. I feel Woodson utilized him well. 

Too bad Woody can't develop a team.

[NotIThatLives]

2 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

The Chris guy on BTB says according to Trilly Donovan IU has started putting out feelers to some coaches and agents. 

So Trilly is Chris from BTB?  Good to know.  

[Indykev]

6 hours ago, NotIThatLives said:

So Trilly is Chris from BTB?  Good to know.  

People think Trilly is 3 media guys posting as one. Knows to much from different schools. Chris...no.

[NCHoosier32]

9 hours ago, SawatchHoosier said:

Regarding the Woody benefited comments I still think there’s no way that TJD gets drafted by Golden State and plays significant minutes this year without CMW’s development. Additionally, I didn’t recall JHS being slated to be a lottery pick at the beginning of last year. He was 1st round but not a lottery pick. I feel Woodson utilized him well. 

one more year helped TJD develop.  i'm sure Woodson is part of that.  JHS was very highly touted.  Woodson was using him poorly until he was forced to put him at PG after X's injury.  

[IUCrazy2]

On 2/2/2024 at 11:02 AM, Maedhros said:

Dustin Dopirak had some recent comments on Twitter that I've been thinking on ever since:

This thinking seems to explain what we've seen as well as anything. Woodson has brought in some talented guys: Tamar, Hood-Schifino, Reneau, Ware, Mgbako, even convincing Trayce to stay. Where it seems we've struggled has been in developing that supporting cast. 

I've been puzzled by our recruiting for a few years now. We didn't land many prep targets in '23, with the explanation we were conserving resources for '24. But then that class rolls around and we again hone in on a select group of guys at the very top. When we don't get them there's not really a plan B of guys in that 40-100 range who will contribute over multiple years. In fact, we actively stop recruiting those guys because we're trying to land bigger fish. This is an adjustment to the college game Woodson needs to make that was perhaps overlooked in discussion at the time of his hire. Kids don't need NBA potential to still contribute on winning teams at the college level.

This familiarity with what NBA players can do also explains some coaching decisions. There's the infamous quote that it's not his job to get Miller Kopp shots. Might ring true in the NBA, where guys are freaks and can mostly do whatever you ask. College players are less skilled, and I imagine needing of more structure in support. Maybe Kopp is doing all he can, but when players are still growing, still learning what they can do, and trying to find who they are as a player - like every other college kid - maybe they don't think of passing out to Kopp unless you actively coach it into being a habit. Guys in the league are closer to fully formed. Guys in college need more guidance.

I actually don't think Woodson is necessarily stubborn. We've seen a lot of changes in Xs and Os strategy over the years, and this season alone. The lack of use of the three point shot remains puzzling, but perhaps this is best explained by ossification. The NBA is still what Woodson knows best. A season like this, which demonstrates all the ways college is different, might be just what's needed to prompt a new approach. 

 

 

I think all of that may be 100% dead on and it leads me to believe that is the reason I don't want Mike doing the roster overhaul and rebuild this summer.  I don't want to dump more resources and time into a 66 year old that is just now learning that college isn't the NBA.  That is year one stuff, not year four.  How long do you think it takes him to figure out? 1 to 3 years?  So say at 69 he has maybe had 1 or 2 more one and dones in the tournament along with a miss or two, but now he has got things figured out...at 69.  Does anyone think Mike is coaching until he is 75?  I don't.

The type of investment you are describing is the type of investment you make in a younger, up and coming coach.  Not a 66 year old.  Mike didn't have time to figure out that the NBA is different from college.  He needed to come in knowing that.  So he sits looking into year 4 on a massive downward trajectory with 1 HS recruit currently committed and looking at needing to hit a whole bunch of home runs in the portal to even begin to start turning things around.  I think you add his issues listed above to that most likely reality and you sit down and tell him, "I think if you had more time that this could work out, but how much longer are you really wanting to do this because I don't feel we have another 3 years for you to get yourself situated to the college game and this upcoming year looks really concerning from where I sit..."

He needs to retire.

Edited February 16 by IUCrazy2

[Maedhros]

3 minutes ago, IUCrazy2 said:

I think all of that may be 100% dead on and it leads me to believe that is the reason I don't want Mike doing the roster overhaul and rebuild thus summer.  I don't want to dump more resources and time into a 66 year old that is just now learning that college isn't the NBA.  That is year one stuff, not year four.  How long do you think it takes him to figure out? 1 to 3 years?  So say at 69 he has maybe had 1 or 2 more one and dones in the tournament along with a miss or two, but now he has got things figured out...at 69.  Does anyone think Mike is coaching until he is 75?  I don't.

The type of investment you are describing is the type of investment you make in a younger, up and coming coach.  Not a 66 year old.  Mike didn't have time to figure out that the NBA is different from college.  He needed to come in knowing that.  So he sits looking into year 4 on a massive downward trajectory with 1 HS recruit currently committed and looking at needing to hit a whole bunch of humerus in the portal to even begin to start turning things around.  I think you add his issues listed above to that most likely reality and you sit down and tell him, "I think if you had more time that this could work out, but how much longer are you really wanting to do this because I don't feel we have another 3 years for you to get yourself situated to the college game and this upcoming year looks really concerning from where I sit..."

He needs to retire.

I actually remain optimistic about next year precisely because of the fork in the road this season represents. Coming from the NBA - where you are what your record says you are - it's easy to get back to the playoffs in year one, get a better seed and advance another round in year two, and say "my shit is working". A season like this forces some hard truths and introspection. 

I do think Dolson should have that conversation. Make it clear this season is unacceptable, and discuss what changes Woodson is willing and able to make to be successful at this level. If Woodson decides he's an old dog and doesn't want to learn new tricks, so be it. But it's not hard to squint and see a way it can come together as quickly as next year. Reneau, Mgbako and McNeeley is a dynamic frontcourt that provides excellent spacing. Change your portal strategy to go all out for guards. Recognize that instant impact Boogie Fland's are nice, but you can win by supplementing your five stars even with guys who won't sniff the NBA.

Many have responded to this season by saying Woodson should be fired. My response is to ask what changes will we see to ensure a season like this never happens again. Woodson has earned the opportunity to answer that question.

Mike Woodson is the Indiana coach until he isn't. Woodson's age shouldn't matter to anyone except Woodson. You judge him on his ability to effectively coach and lead this program and that's that. I get wanting to build something you know will last, but sports success is so fleeting, I'll take joy where I can get it. If it's a few great years from Woodson before he retires, so be it. I'll have fun for a time, and the program will be a better place when he hands it off to the next guy. That's why I'm content giving Woodson more time to turn this around, until it becomes clear he can't or won't.

[DC2345]

From what I have gathered I don't think Trilly ever said 100% that IU was gauging interest just yet. He did say that a national basketball source told him yesterday that OSU moving on from Holtmann has gotten the attention of IU and it may force their hand. It also sounded like some names have been tossed around but I don't believe it's gotten much further along than that to this point. 

[IUCrazy2]

4 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

I actually remain optimistic about next year precisely because of the fork in the road this season represents. Coming from the NBA - where you are what your record says you are - it's easy to get back to the playoffs in year one, get a better seed and advance another round in year two, and say "my shit is working". A season like this forces some hard truths and introspection. 

I do think Dolson should have that conversation. Make it clear this season is unacceptable, and discuss what changes Woodson is willing and able to make to be successful at this level. If Woodson decides he's an old dog and doesn't want to learn new tricks, so be it. But it's not hard to squint and see a way it can come together as quickly as next year. Reneau, Mgbako and McNeeley is a dynamic frontcourt that provides excellent spacing. Change your portal strategy to go all out for guards. Recognize that instant impact Boogie Fland's are nice, but you can win by supplementing your five stars even with guys who won't sniff the NBA.

Many have responded to this season by saying Woodson should be fired. My response is to ask what changes will we see to ensure a season like this never happens again. Woodson has earned the opportunity to answer that question.

Mike Woodson is the Indiana coach until he isn't. Woodson's age shouldn't matter to anyone except Woodson. You judge him on his ability to effectively coach and lead this program and that's that. I get wanting to build something you know will last, but sports success is so fleeting, I'll take joy where I can get it. If it's a few great years from Woodson before he retires, so be it. I'll have fun for a time, and the program will be a better place when he hands it off to the next guy. That's why I'm content giving Woodson more time to turn this around, until it becomes clear he can't or won't.

You are more patient and forgiving then I.  I would force him out specifically because I don't think he has it and in sports I don't believe in "fair".

Edited February 16 by IUCrazy2

[IndySportsPartizan]

13 hours ago, dbmhoosier said:

The Chris guy on BTB says according to Trilly Donovan IU has started putting out feelers to some coaches and agents. 

It's semantics, but he said "put out feelers to agents and agencies". 

[DC2345]

14 minutes ago, IndySportsPartizan said:

It's semantics, but he said "put out feelers to agents and agencies". 

I must have missed that post. Either way it's all been a reaction to OSU firing Holtmann

[DC2345]

I will say this. Dolson started doing background work on Stevens and other candidates a few weeks before the season ended before he fired Archie. He did the same before firing Allen this year. If he is doing background work on candidates it could be a sign of things to come.  

Edited February 16 by DC2345

[tdhoosier]

I'd have to think if Dusty May is scooped up this off-season, there is going to be a clause in his contract that would make it really expensive for IU to poach him in the future. 

[DC2345]

1 minute ago, tdhoosier said:

I'd have to think if Dusty May is scooped up this off-season, there is going to be a clause in his contract that would make it really expensive for IU to poach him in the future. 

It depends. If it's a B1G school I could see that. If it's a non B1G team I could see there being an out clause for IU similar to what is rumored to be in Shrewsberry's contract and what Stevens had in his initial Celtics contract. 

[CoachSS]

As of right now, the coaches expect they'll be back and they expect the head coach to return.

There's a lot of reasons for this (doesn't mean anyone has to like them). 

But, the vibes aren't nearly as high as they once were. (Duh, no $h!t right?). 

Go Hoosiers. 

[13th&Jackson]

10 minutes ago, CoachSS said:

As of right now, the coaches expect they'll be back and they expect the head coach to return.

There's a lot of reasons for this (doesn't mean anyone has to like them). 

But, the vibes aren't nearly as high as they once were. (Duh, no $h!t right?). 

Go Hoosiers. 

Beginning of the death spiral. It's like when a company's in trouble. Employees start focusing more on their own situations and looking at potential exit strategies. Less and less attention to their responsibilities. Zero long term planning. 

[Coach Robby]

15 minutes ago, CoachSS said:

As of right now, the coaches expect they'll be back and they expect the head coach to return.

There's a lot of reasons for this (doesn't mean anyone has to like them). 

But, the vibes aren't nearly as high as they once were. (Duh, no $h!t right?). 

Go Hoosiers. 

Who are you? What do you know?

 

 

FYI, I'm kidding

[13th&Jackson]

35 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

I'd have to think if Dusty May is scooped up this off-season, there is going to be a clause in his contract that would make it really expensive for IU to poach him in the future. 

Watching FAU reminds me a bit of Crean’s teams. They can shoot and when the offense is clicking, it’s a thing of beauty. Defense, however, looks like something they have to do for awhile until they get the ball back. A bit like Iowa.