IUFLA Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 11 minutes ago, Inequality said: Good grief guys. There isn’t any way to spin how bad we are. I’m around a lot of people daily right here in Bloomington and not a single one has anything positive so say about Woodson or IUBB in general. Did they have anything positive to say last year? Pointing out that Woody benefitted from TJD and JHS is as absurd as me pointing out that two of the pessimists favorites, Musselman and Beard, got smoked last night and their current records aren't exactly glowing. Or bitching about where people sit on the bench for that matter... People always say we're trying to "shut down the conversation." No I'm not... Converse away... But as I said before, if I see something that's a sham argument, should I just let it stand? You guys are the ones who don't like pushback on anything you say. No matter how petty or absurd... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Dawg Bawls said: https://www.wearegreenbay.com/sports/ncaa/green-bay-is-on-the-verge-of-ncaa-division-i-mens-basketball-history/amp/ just gonna leave this here... A freshman Hall, inbounded to a freshman Douglas. A sophomore set the screen. Then Douglas (freshman) passed to a sophomore Wonders who made the shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 2 hours ago, IUFLA said: So do Edey and Smith, and so did Jabbar and Walton, and Worthy and Jordan, and Laettner and Hurley and Hill... whats your point...not sure any of those teams had shit coaches. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, bronkonagurski said: So you are saying there is a chance! a chance for a Helms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Inequality said: Good grief guys. There isn’t any way to spin how bad we are. I’m around a lot of people daily right here in Bloomington and not a single one has anything positive so say about Woodson or IUBB in general. Same thing here daily. Students are worse then this thread. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 5 hours ago, Indykev said: A TJD And A JHS will hide a lot of issues. Just shows you how special TJD was here. 6 minutes ago, Indykev said: whats your point...not sure any of those teams had shit coaches. Kinda the way it works, no? You have good players, you win... Bob Knight, John Wooden, and Mike Krzyzewski made their names off of getting good players, coaching them up, and winning... Conversely, none of the 3 would have won big with Crean's first 3 rosters... THAT is the point... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indykev Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 Just now, IUFLA said: Kinda the way it works, no? You have good players, you win... Bob Knight, John Wooden, and Mike Krzyzewski made their names off of getting good players, coaching them up, and winning... Conversely, none of the 3 would have won big with Crean's first 3 rosters... THAT is the point... go from 1 to 12 my friend and look at the rankings coming from High school on this team. Why isnt this team unbeaten? Team FULL of 4 and 5 star players, just like the teams you pointed out. The difference is, KNIGHT,WOODEN and K. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purdue7 Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 (edited) 57 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said: A freshman Hall, inbounded to a freshman Douglas. A sophomore set the screen. Then Douglas (freshman) passed to a sophomore Wonders who made the shot. Bo Ryan’s kid got fired as HC last January. He didn’t offer the local hero until it was too late and he went to Illinois State to torch the Sycamores PS Younger brother is a 2025 🦡 Edited February 15 by Purdue7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 Let me just ask this... If Dolson were to entertain letting Mike Woodson go, would it be because of A) his overall body of work Or B) the record this year ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Inequality said: Good grief guys. There isn’t any way to spin how bad we are. I’m around a lot of people daily right here in Bloomington and not a single one has anything positive so say about Woodson or IUBB in general. 27 minutes ago, Indykev said: Same thing here daily. Students are worse then this thread. Precariously on the edge of what they had in MD last night, with only friends and family in attendance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ephul Posted February 15 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 15 19 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Let me just ask this... If Dolson were to entertain letting Mike Woodson go, would it be because of A) his overall body of work Or B) the record this year ? For me, it'd be for a failure to establish a culture and identity that we were expecting from a guy that played for Bob Knight. No toughness, no fight, no fundamentals, etc. 10 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 23 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Let me just ask this... If Dolson were to entertain letting Mike Woodson go, would it be because of A) his overall body of work Or B) the record this year ? Both. Let's not forget getting blown out in the NCAAT twice. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 23 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Let me just ask this... If Dolson were to entertain letting Mike Woodson go, would it be because of A) his overall body of work Or B) the record this year ? Overall. His best ranking in Kenpom was 30th with an AA. The other teams with an AA finished 2, 7, 8, and 9. His offensive is old and stale and horrible to watch. His defense has gotten worse every year. It’s not like he has done anything great here. He has been OK and now down right horrible. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 1 minute ago, rico said: Both. Let's not forget getting blown out in the NCAAT twice. So making the tournament, for the first time in 6 years and going back to back for the first time since 2016 means nothing? Really? You expected a coach to come in and immediately go what? Final 4? Mike Woodson may eventually get fired from Indiana... But he'll be back next season unless he doesn't want to. And that's only fair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post rico Posted February 15 Popular Post Report Share Posted February 15 7 minutes ago, IUFLA said: So making the tournament, for the first time in 6 years and going back to back for the first time since 2016 means nothing? Really? You expected a coach to come in and immediately go what? Final 4? Mike Woodson may eventually get fired from Indiana... But he'll be back next season unless he doesn't want to. And that's only fair... Going back felt good, then we got blown out. Going back again felt good, then we got blown out again. And now this season. Yeah, that effin' hump thing again. I expected a coach to come in and get the ship heading in the right direction. Not put a shitty product on the floor in year 3. 9 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 (edited) 51 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Let me just ask this... If Dolson were to entertain letting Mike Woodson go, would it be because of A) his overall body of work Or B) the record this year ? I am not going to be here clamoring for a firing, but if Dolson were to consider it, my short answer to your question would be both. After all, this season is a good chunk of his overall body of work. Personally, I can live with the first 2 seasons, although both were at the lower edge of my range of expectations. The first season was, even though our metrics weren’t a whole lot better, an improvement over Archie’s years record-wise, and we made the tournament. Second year, second in the Big 10. Tournament performance was disappointing, but I cut him some slack because X was out. Again, lower edge of my expectations but I could live with it. This year is different for me, and it goes beyond the record, which is disappointing by itself. And I still cut him a little slack because he couldn’t have known Newton and X would be out. But still, why leave a scholarship open when guard play is such a question mark? There had to be somebody that could have helped us, I would think. The things bothering me this year are nonnegotiables like effort. The lack of effort can be seen on TV and is glaring when you watch them in person. I don’t know if or how Woodson has addressed it, but it hasn’t changed in 24 games. Guys just standing instead of blocking out and getting the ball, etc. I remember Woodson acknowledging in his introductory press conference that “ the 3 ball has changed the game.” He has failed to recruit to that, and therefore can’t play to that. And speaking of recruiting, he has failed to sign anyone from Indiana and is in danger of losing some big time Indiana recruits in upcoming classes who supposedly aren’t enamored with his system. I’m not a proponent that all our kids have to be Indiana kids, but if we’re going to be elite again, we have to take full advantage of our fertile recruiting ground. So I would just say, beyond the two choices you gave, there are some big red flags that might justify Dolson’s decision if he elected to make a change. Edited February 15 by IUJoe 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
13th&Jackson Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 3 minutes ago, IUJoe said: This year is different for me, and it goes beyond the record, which is disappointing by itself. And I still cut him a little slack because he couldn’t have known Newton and X would be out. But still, why leave a scholarship open when guard play is such a question mark? There had to be somebody that could have helped us, I would think. Purdue had two returning starting guards, yet they went out and added Lance Jones because guard play was the glaring weakness last year. IU did nothing to replace JHS. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdhoosier Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, IUFLA said: Let me just ask this... If Dolson were to entertain letting Mike Woodson go, would it be because of A) his overall body of work Or B) the record this year ? IF it comes to that. Both. I think the point that others are making is that they don't THINK that this program has a path forward to success if the SYSTEM does not change. I think it's more than fair to say: "Yes, we had some success last year, but I don't like our overall system and do not believe it's conducive to winning in the future." or "We had a good amount of talent and veteran leadership last year to disguise the same issues that plagued us in year 1, year 2, and now are on full display." Nobody can see the future. Everything is opinions. You don't need to be the martyr against pessimism....it's okay to debate an opinion without calling people's views 'absurd'. I get that you do not agree with the above sentiments and you do think Woody can turn it around. You may be right in the end. I HOPE you are right in the end. I think he should get one more year too, but I want to see MAJOR changes (which I have posted about ad nauseam) . I also respect the opinions of those who don't think he deserves another year. Edited February 15 by tdhoosier 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU_Realist Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 8 minutes ago, IUJoe said: I am not going to be here clamoring for a firing, but if Dolson were to consider it, my short answer to your question would be both. After all, this season is a good chunk of his overall body of work. Personally, I can live with the first 2 seasons, although both were at the lower edge of my range of expectations. The first season was, even though our metrics weren’t a whole lot better, an improvement over Archie’s years record-wise, and we made the tournament. Second year, second in the Big 10. Tournament performance was disappointing, but I cut him some slack because X was out. Again, lower edge of my expectations but I could live with it. This year is different for me, and it goes beyond the record, which is disappointing by itself. And I still cut him a little slack because he couldn’t have known Newton and X would be out. But still, why leave a scholarship open when guard play is such a question mark? There had to be somebody that could have helped us, I would think. The things bothering me this year are nonnegotiables like effort. The lack of effort can be seen on TV and is glaring when you watch them in person. I don’t know if or how Woodson has addressed it, but it hasn’t changed in 24 games. Guys just standing instead of blocking out and getting the ball, etc. I remember Woodson acknowledging in his introductory press conference that “ the 3 ball has changed the game.” He has failed to recruit to that, and therefore can’t play to that. And speaking of recruiting, he has failed to sign anyone from Indiana and is in danger of losing some big time Indiana recruits in upcoming classes who supposedly aren’t enamored with his system. I’m not a proponent that all our kids have to be Indiana kids, but if we’re going to be elite again, we have to take full advantage of our fertile recruiting ground. So I would just say, beyond the two choices you gave, there are some big red flags that might justify Dolson’s decision if he elected to make a change. Newton wasn’t a difference maker. He is a frosh. We sucked with X as well prior to all his injuries. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUJoe Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 (edited) 8 minutes ago, IU_Realist said: Newton wasn’t a difference maker. He is a frosh. We sucked with X as well prior to all his injuries. X is an enigma. I’ve seen him in warmups where, even with that broken shot, he’ll take a couple dozen three-pointers and hardly miss any. Next game he can’t hit the broad side of a barn. Floor game is the same way. Edited February 15 by IUJoe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fkfootball Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 Rabjohns said that he's been told that Woodson will get a 4th year. I guess unless the wheels come off. If we suck next season, I hope the fanbase go after Dolson and Buckner. This is insanity. No, it's not "fair" to give him another season. He's had 3 and our program sucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 24 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Let me just ask this... If Dolson were to entertain letting Mike Woodson go, would it be because of A) his overall body of work Or B) the record this year ? It's everything. Its not one or the other. You look at this year and evaluate it both thru a single lens and through the overall body of work. Were results an anomaly and can be corrected with adjustments? Are the failings due to systemic issues that have plagued the program from year one? Are you trending in the correct direction? Are you as a coach meeting the expectations you agreed too when you were hired and are you trending toward those goals? What was the timeline set for those goals? You ask questions around recruiting, scholarship usage, talent evaluation, player growth, offensive and defensive systems and how that impacts, well, everything. You scrutinize the metrics year over year and look for trends and how they have been addressed year over year. You have to look at the overall health of the program. Is your Board happy with where the program is trending? Are the boosters happy with the results and direction of the program? And to a lesser extent, how happy is your student body and fanbase. The media is also something the program must take into account. Regardless of what anyone thinks, if the media turns on your program and continues to questions the AD and or coach, it has a negative impact on all aspects of the program, which can impact the university financially . (Not talking about forums or local fan base media. But when game commentators, ESPN, FoxSport etc.. start having negative things to say and questioning the organization openly, then you must look inward at what can be done to change this lens And if at the end of the day, you don't like the answer you have when you weigh everything, then you do what needs done. Whether its been 3 years or 13 years. This is a business. Its about money. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierDPU95 Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 6 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: IF it comes to that. Both. I think the point that others are making is that they don't THINK that this program has a path forward to success if the SYSTEM does not change. I think it's more than fair to say: "Yes, we had some success last year, but I don't like our overall system and do not believe it's conducive to winning in the future." or "We had a good amount of talent and veteran leadership to disguise the same issues that plagued us in year 1, year 2, and now are on full display." Nobody can see the future. Everything is opinions. You don't need to be the martyr against pessimism....it's okay to debate an opinion without calling people's views 'absurd'. I get that you do not agree with the above sentiments and you do think Woody can turn it around. You may be right in the end. I HOPE you are right in the end. I think he should get one more year too, but I want to see MAJOR changes (which I have posted about ad nauseam) . I also respect the opinions of those who don't think he deserves another year. Good post. For me, debating opinions (in this case the optimists vs the pessimists) is healthy and entertaining. As long as those opinions are about relevant topics (the system, player development, recruiting, line-ups, why Purdue sucks). When the opinions shifts to the irrelevant things (he's not animated enough, he says "hump" too much, why is the assistant AD on the bench, etc) that's when the debate drifts into the "absurd" for me. 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 58 minutes ago, ephul said: For me, it'd be for a failure to establish a culture and identity that we were expecting from a guy that played for Bob Knight. No toughness, no fight, no fundamentals, etc. definitely this. pretty easy to see that this program has no identity and is not projecting in the right direction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCHoosier32 Posted February 15 Report Share Posted February 15 39 minutes ago, rico said: Going back felt good, then we got blown out. Going back again felt good, then we got blown out again. And now this season. Yeah, that effin' hump thing again. I expected a coach to come in and get the ship heading in the right direction. Not put a shitty product on the floor in year 3. right? making the NCAA tourney should not be something we are super excited about. it should be an expectation. that is not unrealistic. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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