Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[Maedhros]

On 2/11/2024 at 12:04 AM, BankShot said:

- Consistently having a successful strategy/approach to the game, fundamentals, execution, and talent to be nationally competitive. 

- Being consistently ranked in the top 20 to top 10 in the nation.

- Finishing in the top 2 or 3 in the Big Ten.

- Winning at least two to three games in the NCAA tournament, annually.

Those used to be the minimally acceptable requirements for Indiana basketball.

 

Used to be.

 

It never was. Even in Bob Knight's 29 years at Indiana:

• We finished the year unranked entirely 11 times. Six of those seasons started out ranked in the top 12.
• We finished outside the top three in the Big Ten 8 times. 
• We made only 14 Sweet Sixteens, just less than half the time. We made 8 Elite Eights.

In a 29 year stint, only 13 seasons met all three of the measurable criteria you provided. And that's with a HOF coach, one of the five or so best ever to do it. 

I often see charges of "accepting mediocrity" thrown around on this board, but some fans need to adjust their thinking of the good old days. There were some amazing highs in there, no doubt, but there were lows as well. If we stop inflating the past, maybe we'll provide a better environment for someone to build a program in the present.

[rico]

8 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

It never was. Even in Bob Knight's 29 years at Indiana:

• We finished the year unranked entirely 11 times. Six of those seasons started out ranked in the top 12.
• We finished outside the top three in the Big Ten 8 times. 
• We made only 14 Sweet Sixteens, just less than half the time. We made 8 Elite Eights.

In a 29 year stint, only 13 seasons met all three of the measurable criteria you provided. And that's with a HOF coach, one of the five or so best ever to do it. 

I often see charges of "accepting mediocrity" thrown around on this board, but some fans need to adjust their thinking of the good old days. There were some amazing highs in there, no doubt, but there were lows as well. If we stop inflating the past, maybe we'll provide a better environment for someone to build a program in the present.

How many "bad" teams did Knight have?

[ledies22]

16 hours ago, Inequality said:

Three proven coaches well known to recruits, families and the entire basketball landscape. Scheyer is doing an amazing job for a 36 year old. 47-14 .763

Dukes recent and historical success lands recruits. IUs history still has an effect to a lesser degree I would assume.

IU hasn’t been anything since Crean and at this point I would trade Woodson for Crean.

But that Coach K's leftovers doing the work then no?

[13th&Jackson]

9 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

It never was. Even in Bob Knight's 29 years at Indiana:

• We finished the year unranked entirely 11 times. Six of those seasons started out ranked in the top 12.
• We finished outside the top three in the Big Ten 8 times. 
• We made only 14 Sweet Sixteens, just less than half the time. We made 8 Elite Eights.

In a 29 year stint, only 13 seasons met all three of the measurable criteria you provided. And that's with a HOF coach, one of the five or so best ever to do it. 

I often see charges of "accepting mediocrity" thrown around on this board, but some fans need to adjust their thinking of the good old days. There were some amazing highs in there, no doubt, but there were lows as well. If we stop inflating the past, maybe we'll provide a better environment for someone to build a program in the present.

A lot of that is skewed by the last 6 or 7 years when RMK was angry at the administration and lost a lot of interest in what he was doing. He preferred hunting and fishing and left recruiting to the assistants. He seriously considered leaving for New Mexico. 

In his first 22 seasons, he won the B1G 11 times. Back when the regular season title meant something. You don't mention the six seasons they started unranked and finished in the top 25. in his first 21 seasons, he had five FF appearances. 

[ledies22]

14 hours ago, Hoosier987 said:

Field of 68 was talking about how Bako fell in Woodson’s lap. Imagine if  Filipowksi declared..Yikes, then our team would be void of any semblance of an outside shooter. 

you know it's also a weird thing to think about, but imagine if Mr.. and Mrs. Mgbako never met. He wouldn't have been born. Thus leaving us in the same scenario you mention.

[Inequality]

21 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

But that Coach K's leftovers doing the work then no?

See Mike Davis

[13th&Jackson]

2 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

you know it's also a weird thing to think about, but imagine if Mr.. and Mrs. Mgbako never met. He wouldn't have been born. Thus leaving us in the same scenario you mention.

Currently, I regret that Mr and Mrs Naismith ever met. 

[ledies22]

Just now, Inequality said:

See Mike Davis

no, but you see. You were saying Woodson isnt a good recruiter. It's "Archie's leftovers". Then a few pages later you say that Scheyer is doing a terrific job at recruiting. You see how that is hypocritical and the lengths people go to discredit Woodson for the same exact situation as Scheyer. And I would say Woodson was dealt a shittier hand in the recruiting world than Scheyer. 

[Maedhros]

8 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

A lot of that is skewed by the last 6 or 7 years when RMK was angry at the administration and lost a lot of interest in what he was doing. He preferred hunting and fishing and left recruiting to the assistants. He seriously considered leaving for New Mexico. 

In his first 22 seasons, he won the B1G 11 times. Back when the regular season title meant something. You don't mention the six seasons they started unranked and finished in the top 25. in his first 21 seasons, he had five FF appearances. 

Those are great things Knight accomplished! That's why he's one of the best to ever do it. Not challenging that, only this impression some have that Indiana Basketball was better and more consistent than it was during his time. 

I want the next Knight, I want a coach to hang multiple banners. I don't think we get there by setting standards higher than what even one of the very best coaches ever was able to achieve at this program, and then tossing aside a coach at the first sign of struggling to meet them.

[IU Scott]

58 minutes ago, Maedhros said:

It never was. Even in Bob Knight's 29 years at Indiana:

• We finished the year unranked entirely 11 times. Six of those seasons started out ranked in the top 12.
• We finished outside the top three in the Big Ten 8 times. 
• We made only 14 Sweet Sixteens, just less than half the time. We made 8 Elite Eights.

In a 29 year stint, only 13 seasons met all three of the measurable criteria you provided. And that's with a HOF coach, one of the five or so best ever to do it. 

I often see charges of "accepting mediocrity" thrown around on this board, but some fans need to adjust their thinking of the good old days. There were some amazing highs in there, no doubt, but there were lows as well. If we stop inflating the past, maybe we'll provide a better environment for someone to build a program in the present.

Until 94 it was usually you build the team and every 5 years we made a run to the championship. In between it was always good teams but not a great team. Only one time did we go to 4 straight sweet 16's 91-94

[Inequality]

7 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

no, but you see. You were saying Woodson isnt a good recruiter. It's "Archie's leftovers". Then a few pages later you say that Scheyer is doing a terrific job at recruiting. You see how that is hypocritical and the lengths people go to discredit Woodson for the same exact situation as Scheyer. And I would say Woodson was dealt a shittier hand in the recruiting world than Scheyer. 

I didn’t say anything about Scheyers job at recruiting nor did I bring him into the conversation. But since he was mentioned I touched on how well he is doing at Duke for a young guy with no experience other than assistant coaching vs a senior guy that has NBA coaching experience.

[IU Scott]

52 minutes ago, rico said:

How many "bad" teams did Knight have?

84-85

[Inequality]

There is no reason IU can’t get its 💩 together and not look like a dying program. The arguments that 66 year old Woodson needs more time to find and navigate the hump is equally absurd as blaming the fans. 

[rico]

6 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

84-85

I wanted the member I posed the question to to answer it since he is the one downplaying Knight's "supposed" success.  

[IUFLA]

2 minutes ago, Inequality said:

equally absurd as blaming the fans. 

Who's blaming the fans, and what are they blaming them for?

The only thing I've ever said about the naysayers on here is they overreact after every loss (they did last year too) and they use any little thing, true or not (see the whole Armond Hill conversation) to buttress their point. 

[Purdue7]

When he says the last 2 years were special….😳

He talks about needing to teach…how about teach with the bench?  Nobody is held accountable including the coach 

 

There are 100’s of coaches who would crawl to Bloomington to coach in the premier conference at a premier school 

[Zuckerkorn]

3 hours ago, Inequality said:

Woodson shouldn’t have been put in the head coach position in the first place. Someone in the admin knew he was lacking or they wouldn’t have created a new position to put Matta in to oversee and guide him.

Indeed.  As a fan, I feel we got the old "bait & switch" with Woodson.  We were to believe we hired a guy with no CBB coaching experience but were surrounding him with a support staff to guide him along.  What we ended up with is an uprepared coach and a mentor who was locked in a basement for a year before he escaped.

Basically like this guy:

 

 

[Indykev]

39 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

When he says the last 2 years were special….😳

He talks about needing to teach…how about teach with the bench?  Nobody is held accountable including the coach 

 

There are 100’s of coaches who would crawl to Bloomington to coach in the premier conference at a premier school 

I can't even listen to him anymore and to think we are stuck with him.

[rico]

5 minutes ago, Indykev said:

I can't even listen to him anymore and to think we are stuck with him.

Stuck on the hump eh?

[13th&Jackson]

6 minutes ago, rico said:

Stuck on the hump eh?

[Indykev]

4 hours ago, HMSHoosier said:

Is this something you want or do you have info no one else has?  8 new players came in this year, why would anyone want that much roster turnover every year? You will never get any consistently replacing that many players a year!

That's one thing I've noticed on here. Some of the same ones on here wanting the Coach fired are also wanting all the players gone, it just doesn't add up to me. Which is it the players or the coach or do we just want to keep starting from scratch every year? There will never be any stability if we keep overhauling every 3-4 years. 

Take a head count, pretty easy. Gunn pretty much posted he's gone. Banks was asleep on the bench during the Ohio St game, he's gone. Ware, MTaco and I could see MR all to the NBA. XJ, Galloway, Walker and Leal gone. yes I know Galloway and Leal have covid years but do they use it, maybe, maybe not. Sparks will be starting at the 5, think about that for a minute. If MR comes back that could be 8 gone. If Galloway and Leal come back thats 6. Still only one signed.

[ledies22]

5 minutes ago, Indykev said:

Take a head count, pretty easy. Gunn pretty much posted he's gone. Banks was asleep on the bench during the Ohio St game, he's gone. Ware, MTaco and I could see MR all to the NBA. XJ, Galloway, Walker and Leal gone. yes I know Galloway and Leal have covid years but do they use it, maybe, maybe not. Sparks will be starting at the 5, think about that for a minute. If MR comes back that could be 8 gone. If Galloway and Leal come back thats 6. Still only one signed.

not arguing, looking for clarity.

What was the post form Gunn? I would be surprised if he is back next year. just haven't seen anything from him.

Ware is pro. I wouldn't stick it out if i were him.

MM is rumored that he is going pro route no matter what.

MR i havent seen any draft boards mentioning him. Id be very surprised if MR is gone.

I thought Gallo already said he is coming back.

[IUFLA]

4 minutes ago, ledies22 said:

not arguing, looking for clarity.

What was the post form Gunn? I would be surprised if he is back next year. just haven't seen anything from him.

Ware is pro. I wouldn't stick it out if i were him.

MM is rumored that he is going pro route no matter what.

MR i havent seen any draft boards mentioning him. Id be very surprised if MR is gone.

I thought Gallo already said he is coming back.

Lots of room for interpretation... 

[Indykev]

1 minute ago, ledies22 said:

not arguing, looking for clarity.

What was the post form Gunn? I would be surprised if he is back next year. just haven't seen anything from him.

Ware is pro. I wouldn't stick it out if i were him.

MM is rumored that he is going pro route no matter what.

MR i havent seen any draft boards mentioning him. Id be very surprised if MR is gone.

I thought Gallo already said he is coming back.

I posted the Gunn tweet somewhere here. i'll try and track it down. MR i could see testing the waters, just with the turnover. If Galloway said he is coming back then i missed that. My thought with those 2,as the same with XJ, you had your time, move on.

[Indykev]

3 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

Lots of room for interpretation... 

It was the timing more than anything.