IUFLA Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, tdhoosier said: I factor that in. you literally just did in the previous sentence. Sure there is. It happens every year. Didn’t know we needed permission. This is a message board we assess everything……to death. I respect your opinion, but I’m not sure why you want shut down the conversation. Just don’t read the thread if it bothers you. You can have the conversation all you want, but don't complain when someone comes in and refutes your points...that's basically what y'all do... Now we're into saying "well, he's not the recruiter, the assistant's are." CEOs don't run cash registers either... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: You can have the conversation all you want, but don't complain when someone comes in and refutes your points...that's basically what y'all do... Now we're into saying "well, he's not the recruiter, the assistant's are." CEOs don't run cash registers either... No, it’s been said that everyone was afraid of his abilities to recruit but now he’s proven because of the kids he’s brought in when actually it has been Archie’s leftover guys that brought the talent in. Woodson so far has just wore the head Captain label while Matta and company helped set sail. I’m still waiting to see something that he has done to show me he’s the guy for the job. Loving the program dearly isn’t enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Just now, Inequality said: No, it’s been said that everyone was afraid of his abilities to recruit but now he’s proven because of the kids he’s brought in when actually it has been Archie’s leftover guys that brought the talent in. Woodson so far has just wore the head Captain label while Matta and company helped set sail. I’m still waiting to see something that he has done to show me he’s the guy for the job. Loving the program dearly isn’t enough. So last year finishing 2nd in the Big 10, beating Purdue and Illinois both twice and securing a 4 seed was... Nothing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, IUFLA said: So last year finishing 2nd in the Big 10, beating Purdue and Illinois both twice and securing a 4 seed was... Nothing? Again, I will refer to a trace Jackson Davis. In interim coach could have done the same with Trace and Jalen. No? 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, Inequality said: Again, I will refer to a trace Jackson Davis. In interim coach could have done the same with Trace and Jalen. No? You forgot while losing their senior PG, and Race Thompson for part of the Big 10 season, but to answer your question, no, I don't.. You think Bill Self, John Calipari, and Jon Scheyer are the lead recruiter on every high school kid? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunkinDipo Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 6 hours ago, Hoosierdave said: What concerns me the most about Woody is that everyone thought the biggest issue would be recruiting but he’s actually done quite well there (Ware, Mac, Fino, Reneau, Liam). Instead, the worst parts are his schemes and roster construction- things that you would assume he was brought here for due to his experience handling that at a higher level. I would feel better about the future if I knew for a fact Reneau and Liam were staying, Gallo was fine with being a 6th man if need be, and our staff was attacking the portal for guards. Also, adjusting our schemes to prioritize perimeter scoring and a balanced attack with speed and movement. I just struggle with having confidence in Woody that he can do that. We as fans have bitched and moaned for like 8+ years now about shooting and yet Archie, his leftover assistances (Hunter, Walsh) and Woody haven’t seen its importance until it’s been too late. Woody also talked about his former NBA teams and how much they shot beyond the arc and said we would do a 4 out 1 in once TJD left because we only played bully ball as a result of his skill set. Instead, we’re doing it just as frequently and we’re again getting exposed for our lack of balance and perimeter threats. I know some people say the fan base is toxic by asking for a new coach every 4 years or less. But it’s not the fans who decided to hire a mid major coach who made a couple deep tourney runs or a guy who has NBA coaching experience but none in college. If we had listened to the national media and allowed their opinions to form our decisions so we don’t look “toxic”, we would have ended up struggling with Archie for 2 more years and hired Alford afterward and been in a similar situation. Woody knew himself he was brought here as a short term hire and said he came here to “win championships”. To me, short term hires are made because of the confidence you have that someone can come in quickly and improve the situation. Not the case with Woody. Would have been interesting with Matta had he passed his physical. I would be more patient and understanding if we weren’t top 15-20 in game attendance, NIL donations, revenue, and social media presence. Objectively, we have way too many pieces for a coach to be successful. We’re also paying Woodson a top 10-15 salary. If it weren’t for us fans and our patience through all the ups and downs, we’d be a Georgetown/DePaul/Louisville. The only objective reason Woody should get another year is to reduce the amount of $ in his buyout so you can throw a Brad Stevens type offer for the next dream coach. If Woody and Dolson want to talk about how much they love this program, then they would honor that by having some self awareness and doing what we did with Allen and pull the plug before it gets even worse. Well said. Please email this to Dolson! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You forgot while losing their senior PG, and Race Thompson for part of the Big 10 season, but to answer your question, no, I don't.. You think Bill Self, John Calipari, and Jon Scheyer are the lead recruiter on every high school kid? Three proven coaches well known to recruits, families and the entire basketball landscape. Scheyer is doing an amazing job for a 36 year old. 47-14 .763 Dukes recent and historical success lands recruits. IUs history still has an effect to a lesser degree I would assume. IU hasn’t been anything since Crean and at this point I would trade Woodson for Crean. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 9 minutes ago, Inequality said: Three proven coaches well known to recruits, families and the entire basketball landscape. Scheyer is doing an amazing job for a 36 year old. 47-14 .763 Dukes recent and historical success lands recruits. IUs history still has an effect to a lesser degree I would assume. IU hasn’t been anything since Crean and at this point I would trade Woodson for Crean. You never answered the question...Are they the lead recruiter on every high school kid Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas go after? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 6 hours ago, Hoosierdave said: I would be more patient and understanding if we weren’t top 15-20 in game attendance, NIL donations, revenue, and social media presence. Objectively, we have way too many pieces for a coach to be successful. We’re also paying Woodson a top 10-15 salary. If it weren’t for us fans and our patience through all the ups and downs, we’d be a Georgetown/DePaul/Louisville. Coach Woodson is not listed here though. I wonder whats up with that https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/ Or here https://frontofficesports.com/highest-paid-mens-college-basketball-coaches/ Or here https://fanbuzz.com/college-basketball/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 30 minutes ago, Inequality said: Again, I will refer to a trace Jackson Davis. In interim coach could have done the same with Trace and Jalen. No? I am unhappy with Woodson but why the need to not give him credit where it is do. As for recruiting most places the assistants start the contact with players and then the HC then comes in later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 26 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You can have the conversation all you want, but don't complain when someone comes in and refutes your points...that's basically what y'all do... Now we're into saying "well, he's not the recruiter, the assistant's are." CEOs don't run cash registers either... Honest question, what is there that makes you think things will be meaningfully better going forward? The thing that is concerning to me about this year is that there seem to be several negative trends that are continuing, without any positive trends emerging. Our defense has got worse each of the last 3 years (24th in 2022, 45th in 2023, and 91st this year). The heavy post up and mid range offense we saw in years 1 & 2 doesn’t seem to be personnel related since we’re doing the same thing again this year. We’ve been a bad rebounding team all 3 years now, and this year we have one of the biggest teams in the country. Our sophomores guards/wings haven’t improved, and our two freshman guards are either struggling our hurt. The lone bright spot seems to be with the programs ability to get production out of centers. We’re basically hanging next year on the ability to recruit multiple impact guards or for our existing guards to show significant development over the off-season. We essentially needed the same thing last offseason and that clearly failed. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boiler Sam Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 7 hours ago, btownqb said: But again, and I said this the other day.... Archie Miller couldn't have been more qualified/had won a ton of games when IU hired him. I have no idea how good May is, but I think the distinction is that Dusty built FAU into what it is. Archie most certainly did not build Dayton into what it was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 14 minutes ago, IUFLA said: You never answered the question...Are they the lead recruiter on every high school kid Duke, Kentucky, or Kansas go after? Those schools easily recruit themselves. Of course there are “recruiters” lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 2 minutes ago, Kdug said: Honest question, what is there that makes you think things will be meaningfully better going forward? The thing that is concerning to me about this year is that there seem to be several negative trends that are continuing, without any positive trends emerging. Our defense has got worse each of the last 3 years (24th in 2022, 45th in 2023, and 91st this year). The heavy post up and mid range offense we saw in years 1 & 2 doesn’t seem to be personnel related since we’re doing the same thing again this year. We’ve been a bad rebounding team all 3 years now, and this year we have one of the biggest teams in the country. Our sophomores guards/wings haven’t improved, and our two freshman guards are either struggling our hurt. The lone bright spot seems to be with the programs ability to get production out of centers. We’re basically hanging next year on the ability to recruit multiple impact guards or for our existing guards to show significant development over the off-season. We essentially needed the same thing last offseason and that clearly failed. Because I see the talent, but talent always needs the experience...TJD wasn't near the player he was as a freshman and sophomore that he was as a junior and senior. Experience in college basketball matters...a lot...Malik, Mac, and Kel'el aren't as good as they're eventually going to be *and before I hear any NBA talk, ask yourself...has either kid done anything to suggest they're ready for the NBA?) And as I said, sometimes it simply takes one player... I've quoted many people who actually know what a good coach is, and by all measures by people who know, Mike Woodson is a good coach...As I've said numerous times (and to be honest, I'm tired of saying it) he brought the 2 previous teams off the deck to have a couple of pretty good seasons... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 3 minutes ago, Inequality said: Those schools easily recruit themselves. Of course there are “recruiters” lol Yeah...Yet, you bring our assistants into the conversation to disparage our coach...Case in point Flory Bidunga (6-foot-9, 220-pound forward) Bidunga is from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but is attending Kokomo High School in the state of Indiana. He is a 247Sports Composite five-star prospect who’s described as the No. 1 center in the nation, No. 1 player in the state of Indiana and No. 6 player in the nation in his class. From Self’s perspective, Bidunga is the prize of the recruiting class at this point. “Flory is the headliner of our recruiting class thus far,” Self said Thursday in a KU release. “He rated by many to be one of the top players in this year’s recruiting class. Flory is an elite athlete. He can play above the rim. He changes ends as well as anybody. He’s getting stronger and developing more offensive skill. He is probably as good a prospect that we’ve had inside in quite some time. Coach (Jeremy) Case did a great job with recruiting Flory and his family.” Rakease Passmore (6-foot-5, 185-pound guard) Passmore is from the state of Florida, but is attending Combine Academy in the state of North Carolina. He is a 247Sports Composite four-star prospect, who’s described as the No. 5 player in the state of North Carolina, No. 11 small forward in the nation and No. 48 player overall in the nation. According to a KU release, he has been an AAU teammate before with Philon. “When I see Rakease on film and in person and I see a prototypical Kansas wing,” Self said Wednesday in that release. “He’s got size. He’s got strength. He’s explosive, can play above the rim. His shooting is getting better and better and he should be able to guard anyone. I think he is more of the underrated players in this class and I think he will have an immediate impact. Norm Roberts did great job in recruiting Rakease and his family to Kansas.” “When I had a chance to watch and study Labaron, I saw exactly what coach (Jeremy) Case has been telling me all along,” Self said Wednesday in a KU release. “He’s athletic. He has vision. He has handles,” Self said. “He can play some point, but can also score. He is very underrated. Coach Case deserves the credit for the recruitment of Labaron. Labaron Philon (6-foot-4, 177-pound guard) Philon is from the state of Alabama, but is attending Link Academy in the state of Missouri. He is a 247Sports Composite four-star prospect who’s described as the No. 2 player in the state of Missouri, No. 4 point guard in the nation and No. 36 player in the nation. With him and his fellow signees, the Jayhawks have one of the best recruiting classes in the country. And if you remember correctly, Woody outdueled Self for Mgbako... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobSaccamanno Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 You have to credit Woodson for closing on every single recruit we’ve landed. I don’t think that’s the issue. I think he’s good with the players and parents. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spe317 Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Not trying to derail but on the topic of player development…would JHS developed into what he did if X doesn’t have the injury? I feel like you could say CMW was forced to have JHS develop in methods outside of his preferred. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoosierdave Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 22 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said: Coach Woodson is not listed here though. I wonder whats up with that https://www.collegetransitions.com/blog/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/ Or here https://frontofficesports.com/highest-paid-mens-college-basketball-coaches/ Or here https://fanbuzz.com/college-basketball/highest-paid-college-basketball-coaches/ I guess they didn’t care enough to update. But he’s paid $4.2 million currently. Based on those links, he’d be 1) Tied for 8th with Brad Underwood 2)9th in front of Bob Huggins 3) 9th in front of Huggins agaiN. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inequality Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 Just now, IUFLA said: Yeah...Yet, you bring our assistants into the conversation to disparage our coach...Case in point Flory Bidunga (6-foot-9, 220-pound forward) Bidunga is from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, but is attending Kokomo High School in the state of Indiana. He is a 247Sports Composite five-star prospect who’s described as the No. 1 center in the nation, No. 1 player in the state of Indiana and No. 6 player in the nation in his class. From Self’s perspective, Bidunga is the prize of the recruiting class at this point. “Flory is the headliner of our recruiting class thus far,” Self said Thursday in a KU release. “He rated by many to be one of the top players in this year’s recruiting class. Flory is an elite athlete. He can play above the rim. He changes ends as well as anybody. He’s getting stronger and developing more offensive skill. He is probably as good a prospect that we’ve had inside in quite some time. Coach (Jeremy) Case did a great job with recruiting Flory and his family.” Rakease Passmore (6-foot-5, 185-pound guard) Passmore is from the state of Florida, but is attending Combine Academy in the state of North Carolina. He is a 247Sports Composite four-star prospect, who’s described as the No. 5 player in the state of North Carolina, No. 11 small forward in the nation and No. 48 player overall in the nation. According to a KU release, he has been an AAU teammate before with Philon. “When I see Rakease on film and in person and I see a prototypical Kansas wing,” Self said Wednesday in that release. “He’s got size. He’s got strength. He’s explosive, can play above the rim. His shooting is getting better and better and he should be able to guard anyone. I think he is more of the underrated players in this class and I think he will have an immediate impact. Norm Roberts did great job in recruiting Rakease and his family to Kansas.” “When I had a chance to watch and study Labaron, I saw exactly what coach (Jeremy) Case has been telling me all along,” Self said Wednesday in a KU release. “He’s athletic. He has vision. He has handles,” Self said. “He can play some point, but can also score. He is very underrated. Coach Case deserves the credit for the recruitment of Labaron. Labaron Philon (6-foot-4, 177-pound guard) Philon is from the state of Alabama, but is attending Link Academy in the state of Missouri. He is a 247Sports Composite four-star prospect who’s described as the No. 2 player in the state of Missouri, No. 4 point guard in the nation and No. 36 player in the nation. With him and his fellow signees, the Jayhawks have one of the best recruiting classes in the country. And if you remember correctly, Woody outdueled Self for Mgbako... Rumor was Bakos mom or someone actually contacted Woodson. I don’t have to disparage our coach. To me, he hasn’t proven anything. I wish he would work out. I tried really hard to be on board when I wasn’t in favor of his hiring to begin with. Matta was huge in changing my thought process as an overflow of basketball minds. I’m on this mound and unless the team turns around quickly, which I seriously doubt, I I’m staying on it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 17 minutes ago, Kdug said: Honest question, what is there that makes you think things will be meaningfully better going forward? The thing that is concerning to me about this year is that there seem to be several negative trends that are continuing, without any positive trends emerging. Our defense has got worse each of the last 3 years (24th in 2022, 45th in 2023, and 91st this year). The heavy post up and mid range offense we saw in years 1 & 2 doesn’t seem to be personnel related since we’re doing the same thing again this year. We’ve been a bad rebounding team all 3 years now, and this year we have one of the biggest teams in the country. Our sophomores guards/wings haven’t improved, and our two freshman guards are either struggling our hurt. The lone bright spot seems to be with the programs ability to get production out of centers. We’re basically hanging next year on the ability to recruit multiple impact guards or for our existing guards to show significant development over the off-season. We essentially needed the same thing last offseason and that clearly failed. Remember this poster thought Archie should have gotten a 5th year. I think he likes being the lone wolf fighting the good fight until the hitter end. Being loyal is a good quality to have and I give him that he is loyal and is consistent in his viewpoints. I was there with him with Archie until year 4 and I realized he wasn't the right coach. I have never liked the Woodson hire but I was willing to give him a shot. His first year wasn't very good at all but made a late run to the tournament. Without a 17 point comeback vs UM in the BTT there would have been no tournament appearances. Last year was better but it still took the team awhile to get going. This year has been just horrible and I don't see it getting better 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaHoosierFan Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 (edited) 26 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Because I see the talent, but talent always needs the experience...TJD wasn't near the player he was as a freshman and sophomore that he was as a junior and senior. Experience in college basketball matters...a lot...Malik, Mac, and Kel'el aren't as good as they're eventually going to be *and before I hear any NBA talk, ask yourself...has either kid done anything to suggest they're ready for the NBA?) And as I said, sometimes it simply takes one player... I've quoted many people who actually know what a good coach is, and by all measures by people who know, Mike Woodson is a good coach...As I've said numerous times (and to be honest, I'm tired of saying it) he brought the 2 previous teams off the deck to have a couple of pretty good seasons... HSN Question (Sorry @IUFLA, using your post, not targeting you specifically) Honest question for you and any others on both extreme sides. Why do you put so much effort into these threads? You're (collective you, not you specific) not changing anyone's opinion. I get what a discussion forum is for and why people come on here to ask questions and discuss IU basketball. But honestly wading through you (again not you specifically but collectively) arguing the same points over and over in every thread has to be exhausting for you (again not you specifically but collectively) as much as it is for everyone else on this board. The total lack of allowed differing opinions on here these days is tiring. So i ask again, why put so much time and effort into arguing the exact same points in every thread? Can we just not respond? Or let a group get something off their chest? Can't we Let the happy be happy and let the miserable wallow together in misery without having to interject our opinions as facts into every conversation that we don't agree with? I know, "Welcome to the Internet". But this forum has been and was different at one time. This is an honest question coming from an honest spot in my heart. I am not singling out any specific person. I am blasé to IU basketball at this moment so not as invested as i once was, and maybe that is why i can't understand one side or the other. Sorry if this comes off the wrong and rubs people the wrong way. Jason Edited February 12 by IowaHoosierFan 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdug Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 27 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Because I see the talent, but talent always needs the experience...TJD wasn't near the player he was as a freshman and sophomore that he was as a junior and senior. Experience in college basketball matters...a lot...Malik, Mac, and Kel'el aren't as good as they're eventually going to be *and before I hear any NBA talk, ask yourself...has either kid done anything to suggest they're ready for the NBA?) And as I said, sometimes it simply takes one player... I've quoted many people who actually know what a good coach is, and by all measures by people who know, Mike Woodson is a good coach...As I've said numerous times (and to be honest, I'm tired of saying it) he brought the 2 previous teams off the deck to have a couple of pretty good seasons... I hope you’re right. As to your NBA question, Kel’el has absolutely shown he’s ready for the NBA, and I’d expect him to be a 1st rounder. He’s answered a lot of the questions around him coming into the year, and I’d be shocked if he’s in college next year. And I do give Woodson credit for the first two years. All things considered they were solid seasons. But a GM of a pro team, and AD’s of college teams, should always be looking forward. So to me the question isn’t were his first two years good, but the question is will the next two years be good. Imo there’s a lot of negative trends that make me doubt they will be. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IUFLA Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 22 minutes ago, IU Scott said: Remember this poster thought Archie should have gotten a 5th year. I think he likes being the lone wolf fighting the good fight until the hitter end. Being loyal is a good quality to have and I give him that he is loyal and is consistent in his viewpoints. I was there with him with Archie until year 4 and I realized he wasn't the right coach. I have never liked the Woodson hire but I was willing to give him a shot. His first year wasn't very good at all but made a late run to the tournament. Without a 17 point comeback vs UM in the BTT there would have been no tournament appearances. Last year was better but it still took the team awhile to get going. This year has been just horrible and I don't see it getting better Not about loyalty, Scott...it's about fairness...And I'm far from the only person who feels that way... The crap the other day about Armond Hill...Was that fair to write off someone with his credentials as "just there because he's Woody's pal"? It's not, and I was glad @BGleas stood up for him...We don't need that... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, Kdug said: I hope you’re right. As to your NBA question, Kel’el has absolutely shown he’s ready for the NBA, and I’d expect him to be a 1st rounder. He’s answered a lot of the questions around him coming into the year, and I’d be shocked if he’s in college next year. And I do give Woodson credit for the first two years. All things considered they were solid seasons. But a GM of a pro team, and AD’s of college teams, should always be looking forward. So to me the question isn’t were his first two years good, but the question is will the next two years be good. Imo there’s a lot of negative trends that make me doubt they will be. I don't think he showed he is ready for the NBA but showed he is draftable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IU Scott Posted February 12 Report Share Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, IUFLA said: Not about loyalty, Scott...it's about fairness...And I'm far from the only person who feels that way... The crap the other day about Armond Hill...Was that fair to write off someone with his credentials as "just there because he's Woody's pal"? It's not, and I was glad @BGleas stood up for him...We don't need that... That wasn't fair but I would hope we move in from him this off season. We need to bring in more dynamic personalities into the locker room that can relate to these players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.