Coach Mike Woodson Megathread

[dbmhoosier]

1 hour ago, CoachSS said:

As of right now, the coaches expect they'll be back and they expect the head coach to return.

There's a lot of reasons for this (doesn't mean anyone has to like them). 

But, the vibes aren't nearly as high as they once were. (Duh, no $h!t right?). 

Go Hoosiers. 

It's over.  Only question now is when.

[Fkfootball]

Imagine if Dusty May goes to OSU or Louisville and turns into Brad Stevens? The egg on Dolson and Companies faces would be insane.

[HoosierDPU95]

36 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Watching FAU reminds me a bit of Crean’s teams. They can shoot and when the offense is clicking, it’s a thing of beauty. Defense, however, looks like something they have to do for awhile until they get the ball back. A bit like Iowa. 

So all we need to do is create an offensive coordinator position and convince May and Woodson. 

 

[Fkfootball]

6 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

So all we need to do is create an offensive coordinator position and convince May and Woodson. 

 

Woodson isn't exactly a Defensive Savant.

[tdhoosier]

4 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

So all we need to do is create an offensive coordinator position and convince May and Woodson. 

 

Who's going to be the defensive coordinator? lol

I go back and fourth on which end of the floor is worse. We don't switch and leave 3 point shooters open, we don't box out on rebounds, and in the last 3 years we have committed more fouls than any other team in the B1G.

[KoB2011]

2 hours ago, Maedhros said:

Coming from the NBA - where you are what your record says you are - it's easy to get back to the playoffs in year one, get a better seed and advance another round in year two, and say "my shit is working". A season like this forces some hard truths and introspection. 

He would be fired in the NBA by most franchises, possibly after last season if you equate that to an embarrassing first round (first weekend) exit. This season it would be a no-brainer.

That said, this isn't the NBA. 

[Fkfootball]

Whoever NGW is on BTB? That guy is either a Purdue fan or he's related to Mike Woodson?

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

I actually remain optimistic about next year precisely because of the fork in the road this season represents. Coming from the NBA - where you are what your record says you are - it's easy to get back to the playoffs in year one, get a better seed and advance another round in year two, and say "my shit is working". A season like this forces some hard truths and introspection. 

I do think Dolson should have that conversation. Make it clear this season is unacceptable, and discuss what changes Woodson is willing and able to make to be successful at this level. If Woodson decides he's an old dog and doesn't want to learn new tricks, so be it. But it's not hard to squint and see a way it can come together as quickly as next year. Reneau, Mgbako and McNeeley is a dynamic frontcourt that provides excellent spacing. Change your portal strategy to go all out for guards. Recognize that instant impact Boogie Fland's are nice, but you can win by supplementing your five stars even with guys who won't sniff the NBA.

Many have responded to this season by saying Woodson should be fired. My response is to ask what changes will we see to ensure a season like this never happens again. Woodson has earned the opportunity to answer that question.

Mike Woodson is the Indiana coach until he isn't. Woodson's age shouldn't matter to anyone except Woodson. You judge him on his ability to effectively coach and lead this program and that's that. I get wanting to build something you know will last, but sports success is so fleeting, I'll take joy where I can get it. If it's a few great years from Woodson before he retires, so be it. I'll have fun for a time, and the program will be a better place when he hands it off to the next guy. That's why I'm content giving Woodson more time to turn this around, until it becomes clear he can't or won't.

Can I ask what makes you think this is going to happen.  We haven't had any great years yet.  A couple of what I would say are good years compared to the last 8 -10 years, but would be considered mediocre years in our history (even compared to some of the Coach Crean's teams).  What would be a great year to you?  I would consider an EE or FF run to be a great year.  And how long do you wait to get to that Great year.  If next year is bad are you willing to wait another year?  Or maybe for year 5 or 6 to get a great year?  And what do you expect after that?  More great years or are you ok with mediocrity for a couple more years to get another great year?  All asked in honestly without any agenda.  Just trying to understand your thoughts.

And btw, i don't really care much anymore if we fire or keep Coach Woodson.  Eventually he will retire or be fired and we'll either have enjoyed his tenure here or not.  i don't currently get much enjoyment out of this team or style of play and there isn't really any one player who i really enjoy and root for.  I liked TJD but i really have to go back to Zeller, Yogi, VO, Sheehey, Watford for a team and players i truly enjoyed rooting for and watching.  The Watshot and the missed VO dunk against Michigan are two of my favorite memories of IU basketball. That and the Keith Smart shot to win the National Title in 87.

[Hoosierfan1901]

36 minutes ago, Fkfootball said:

Imagine if Dusty May goes to OSU or Louisville and turns into Brad Stevens? The egg on Dolson and Companies faces would be insane.

Possibly a Matta type at UL/OSU

[HoosierDPU95]

19 minutes ago, tdhoosier said:

Who's going to be the defensive coordinator? lol

I go back and fourth on which end of the floor is worse. We don't switch and leave 3 point shooters open, we don't box out on rebounds, and in the last 3 years we have committed more fouls than any other team in the B1G.

I go back and forth on if the defensive problems are more schematic or personnel. I'm sure it's a bit of both but our current roster has no one who can guard the ball and disrupt the opponent's offense at the point of attack. Everything breaks down after that - forced into bad or no switches, over helping to counter penetration into the lane, out of position to recover on a shooter etc. 

[IowaHoosierFan]

2 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I go back and forth on if the defensive problems are more schematic or personnel. I'm sure it's a bit of both but our current roster has no one who can guard the ball and disrupt the opponent's offense at the point of attack. Everything breaks down after that - forced into bad or no switches, over helping to counter penetration into the lane, out of position to recover on a shooter etc. 

Does any college team play straight up man to man defense with no switch or backside help?  I don't know enough about college basketball defensive schemes to even research this.  I know a little about offensive schemes, but mostly though look and feel of the flow on the floor.  Some teams you can see it and its easy and flawless, then there is our offense and it looks stagnant and grindy.  Like every shot is always hard and very few times is it just easy and flowing. Could be i also know nothing and that is why i can't identify anything.

Thoughts?

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, CoachSS said:

As of right now, the coaches expect they'll be back and they expect the head coach to return.

There's a lot of reasons for this (doesn't mean anyone has to like them). 

But, the vibes aren't nearly as high as they once were. (Duh, no $h!t right?). 

Go Hoosiers. 

Yippee.

Honestly I hope Woody pulls a rabbit out of a hat and we finally get a good year because I am beyond tired of mediocre to sh** basketball.  And if this ends up going about how I think it will next year and we retain him, I hope Dolson gets fired with him.

[tdhoosier]

11 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I go back and forth on if the defensive problems are more schematic or personnel. I'm sure it's a bit of both but our current roster has no one who can guard the ball and disrupt the opponent's offense at the point of attack. Everything breaks down after that - forced into bad or no switches, over helping to counter penetration into the lane, out of position to recover on a shooter etc. 

No doubt it's a bit of both. In general though, we make a lot of mistakes that have nothing to do with the point of attack. Too many times i see un-needed help in the post, guys standing in the middle of nowhere (between the help and the shooter), leaving wide open passing lanes and not boxing out. 

I'm sure this is not what was intended, but it continues to happen. We constantly look confused. I have to wonder, if the defense is so hard to grasp, and in this day and age of high roster turnover, should Woody continue to run it as is? Can he modify it to better suit a personnel that will constantly be changing? Can there be the option of a zone or another look he can use to disrupt the opponents flow?

The defense did not look good last year, and this year mid-majors are picking apart, even with their inferior athleticism.

My question: what was unique about year 1 that allowed for Woody to successfully implement his defense when everybody was learning the system for the first time? The roster was pretty much the same in year 1 and year 2. I don't completely buy that it was the presence of Matta and Fife. Maybe opponents learned how to game plan for it???

[13th&Jackson]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

Who's going to be the defensive coordinator? lol

I go back and fourth on which end of the floor is worse. We don't switch and leave 3 point shooters open, we don't box out on rebounds, and in the last 3 years we have committed more fouls than any other team in the B1G.

[Victobmyboy]

46 minutes ago, HoosierDPU95 said:

I go back and forth on if the defensive problems are more schematic or personnel. I'm sure it's a bit of both but our current roster has no one who can guard the ball and disrupt the opponent's offense at the point of attack. Everything breaks down after that - forced into bad or no switches, over helping to counter penetration into the lane, out of position to recover on a shooter etc. 

bingo. Straight line drives. That’s a personnel problem. X was/is our best at it. 

[Maedhros]

30 minutes ago, IowaHoosierFan said:

Can I ask what makes you think this is going to happen.  We haven't had any great years yet.  A couple of what I would say are good years compared to the last 8 -10 years, but would be considered mediocre years in our history (even compared to some of the Coach Crean's teams).  What would be a great year to you?  I would consider an EE or FF run to be a great year.  And how long do you wait to get to that Great year.  If next year is bad are you willing to wait another year?  Or maybe for year 5 or 6 to get a great year?  And what do you expect after that?  More great years or are you ok with mediocrity for a couple more years to get another great year?  All asked in honestly without any agenda.  Just trying to understand your thoughts.

And btw, i don't really care much anymore if we fire or keep Coach Woodson.  Eventually he will retire or be fired and we'll either have enjoyed his tenure here or not.  i don't currently get much enjoyment out of this team or style of play and there isn't really any one player who i really enjoy and root for.  I liked TJD but i really have to go back to Zeller, Yogi, VO, Sheehey, Watford for a team and players i truly enjoyed rooting for and watching.  The Watshot and the missed VO dunk against Michigan are two of my favorite memories of IU basketball. That and the Keith Smart shot to win the National Title in 87.

I think it's very easy to make the case Woodson was showing steady progress until this year. I wouldn't call Woodson's first two years Great either, but they were better than what came before. Last season was about as good as we've had post-Knight, excepting only the Sampson years and Crean's two peaks. I had fun, warts and all. This is college, you're always going to have warts. I think what Woodson accomplished his first two years earned him a fourth, even as bad as the third has been. You make it clear this season can't happen again, and then - even if next year is another Good season - if you don't have clear and definitive reasons to think we're back on the track to contention I'm fine cutting loose at that time.

Coaches have bad years, where the roster doesn't come together. Look at Painter's years 8-9. Look at Musselman this year. Or Mick Cronin. Like a player having a sophomore slump, you don't cut a coach loose after one bad season. Even at Indiana, allow coaches an opportunity to learn and grow on the job. Give him a chance to right the ship. If he can't, then you'll know.

That all said, I actually don't think Woodson turns this around, and I don't think he ever delivers Great years. To me the big flashing warning sign is the recruiting. The five-stars are wonderful, but there hasn't been near enough four-star talent brought in to round out the roster and provide continuity. Some of that feels by design, which means it could be correctable, but time is vanishingly short. 

I want Woodson to succeed, because he's the head basketball coach at Indiana, and I want Indiana Basketball to succeed. If next year Indiana Basketball succeeds with someone else at the helm, that'll be more than fine by me. 

[NCHoosier32]

38 minutes ago, Victobmyboy said:

bingo. Straight line drives. That’s a personnel problem. X was/is our best at it. 

and off the ball X is one of our worst offenders of overhelping

[dgambill]

2 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

Watching FAU reminds me a bit of Crean’s teams. They can shoot and when the offense is clicking, it’s a thing of beauty. Defense, however, looks like something they have to do for awhile until they get the ball back. A bit like Iowa. 

I never had an issue with our defense during Creans tenure…don’t get me wrong it wasn’t great…I wish it was better…but I was far far far more concerned with our issues with bbiq with guys jumping in the air to pass, not knowing how to enter the ball into the post, and constantly driving baseline and getting into bad spots on the floor. That sort of stuff. The other issue was Crean and his ability to make adjustments or well specifically attack a matchup 2-3 zone 😂 but spacing, ball movement, offensive concepts were good under him if my recollection is accurate.

Defensive concepts imo are much harder to teach and develop with young guys…especially those that never had to play any in HS. I’m not saying May should be the guy but I’m confident in his coaching ability on both ends and his accountability with players…I suppose to me it will be can he recruit at a B1G level and build a roster to win.

Edited February 16 by dgambill

[IUCrazy2]

https://btownbanners.com/topic/14310-fire-coach-woodson/?do=findComment&comment=860511

All the red flags are starting to show up.....

 

ETA:  This is merely a rumor.  Nothing set in stone.  Don't construe it as "Trey is gone".  That being said, how many times have we been right here the past 20 years?  This type of stuff has never ended well for the coach it was swirling around.  That is what is driving my negativity towards another Woodson year.  If this is a huge roster turnover year, I have zero faith he can get the necessary pieces portal shopping to do much more next year than he has this.  If we are going to have a complete rebuild, just go get the next guy.  Your bridge just collapsed.

Edited February 16 by IUCrazy2

[IowaHoosierFan]

1 hour ago, Maedhros said:

I think it's very easy to make the case Woodson was showing steady progress until this year. I wouldn't call Woodson's first two years Great either, but they were better than what came before. Last season was about as good as we've had post-Knight, excepting only the Sampson years and Crean's two peaks. I had fun, warts and all. This is college, you're always going to have warts. I think what Woodson accomplished his first two years earned him a fourth, even as bad as the third has been. You make it clear this season can't happen again, and then - even if next year is another Good season - if you don't have clear and definitive reasons to think we're back on the track to contention I'm fine cutting loose at that time.

Coaches have bad years, where the roster doesn't come together. Look at Painter's years 8-9. Look at Musselman this year. Or Mick Cronin. Like a player having a sophomore slump, you don't cut a coach loose after one bad season. Even at Indiana, allow coaches an opportunity to learn and grow on the job. Give him a chance to right the ship. If he can't, then you'll know.

That all said, I actually don't think Woodson turns this around, and I don't think he ever delivers Great years. To me the big flashing warning sign is the recruiting. The five-stars are wonderful, but there hasn't been near enough four-star talent brought in to round out the roster and provide continuity. Some of that feels by design, which means it could be correctable, but time is vanishingly short. 

I want Woodson to succeed, because he's the head basketball coach at Indiana, and I want Indiana Basketball to succeed. If next year Indiana Basketball succeeds with someone else at the helm, that'll be more than fine by me. 

I appreciate the response. 

[Purdue7]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

I never had an issue with our defense during Creans tenure…don’t get me wrong it wasn’t great…I wish it was better…but I was far far far more concerned with our issues with bbiq with guys jumping in the air to pass, not knowing how to enter the ball into the post, and constantly driving baseline and getting into bad spots on the floor. That sort of stuff. The other issue was Crean and his ability to make adjustments or well specifically attack a matchup 2-3 zone 😂 but spacing, ball movement, offensive concepts were good under him if my recollection is accurate.

Defensive concepts imo are much harder to teach and develop with young guys…especially those that never had to play any in HS. I’m not saying May should be the guy but I’m confident in his coaching ability on both ends and his accountability with players…I suppose to me it will be can he recruit at a B1G level and build a roster to win.

💯 MM & Colvin were never taught any defensive concepts besides stay out of foul trouble 

We will see if Liam or Catchings are any better 

[Purdue7]

2 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

https://btownbanners.com/topic/14310-fire-coach-woodson/?do=findComment&comment=860511

All the red flags are starting to show up.....

 

ETA:  This is merely a rumor.  Nothing set in stone.  Don't construe it as "Trey is gone".  That being said, how many times have we been right here the past 20 years?  This type of stuff has never ended well for the coach it was swirling around.  That is what is driving my negativity towards another Woodson year.  If this is a huge roster turnover year, I have zero faith he can get the necessary pieces portal shopping to do much more next year than he has this.  If we are going to have a complete rebuild, just go get the next guy.  Your bridge just collapsed.

If you are starting over…..

Flush twice and move on 

 

[OGIUAndy]

27 minutes ago, Purdue7 said:

If you are starting over…..

Flush twice and move on 

 

 

3 hours ago, IUCrazy2 said:

https://btownbanners.com/topic/14310-fire-coach-woodson/?do=findComment&comment=860511

All the red flags are starting to show up.....

 

ETA:  This is merely a rumor.  Nothing set in stone.  Don't construe it as "Trey is gone".  That being said, how many times have we been right here the past 20 years?  This type of stuff has never ended well for the coach it was swirling around.  That is what is driving my negativity towards another Woodson year.  If this is a huge roster turnover year, I have zero faith he can get the necessary pieces portal shopping to do much more next year than he has this.  If we are going to have a complete rebuild, just go get the next guy.  Your bridge just collapsed.

This rumor seems to have been debunked by the same person who started it FWIW. 

[NCHoosier32]

again, i cannot imagine he gets fired after this season.  it would only be if he's ready to hang it up after a horrible ending to a very disappointing season.  it just sucks that we have to wait another year just because he "deserves another year."  we'll endure it and then we'll make a change.  just prolongs getting the right guy.  

[DC2345]

2 hours ago, OGIUAndy said:

 

This rumor seems to have been debunked by the same person who started it FWIW. 

There was a rumor of teams reaching out to people around a notable player at IU. That said it wasn’t the player being talked about on BTB and it definitely didn’t involve Purdue. Purdue only has one open scholarship for next year right now and they’re being very selective with a large class already coming in.