Florida State Postgame Thread

[IU Scott]

2 hours ago, Fundamentals said:

Regarding the already severly beaten “dead horse” of shooting.  
 

Remember when Kenny Johnson as recruiter focused on East Coast kids and right under Crean’s nose was Bryant McIntosh, who was an assassin from deep?

Watched a bit of Clemson yesterday and off the bench, before even breaking a sweat, Alex Hemingway (Indy Elite) drilled a deep 3 from the corner.  He didn’t hesitate he just drilled it.  
 

Luke Brown “wasn’t good enough” for IU.  Probably because he can shoot lights out.  

If Brown is so good why didn't nay other power 5 conferenced teams offer him

[IUguy]

I pretty much agree with most of what's been said on this thread.  This game was lost due to 1) still sub-standard outside shooting, 2) not finishing at the rim, 3) too many foolish turnovers, especially in the first half and glaringly the one when it was tied with a minute left, we got the rebound and passed it out to the side where it got stolen (TO's should be improved as they are our biggest weakness), and 4) getting beat under the boards by FSU too many times for their second and third chances.  Of course, some of the calls, especially on deflections and out of bounds plays could have gone to us instead of them.  

On the positive side, our defense is really good and should keep us in most games.  We guard the three well, but against teams like Iowa, Rutgers, NW, etc, who take more threes than most, we will really have to step that part of the defense up without sacrificing too much elsewhere.

Someone said above that we need a true sharpshooter to become elite.  This year, that seems to be true.  Hopefully, one or more of our guys can become that guy.  The team is very good, and should play well against everyone in the BIG.  No more 44 point games,  Remember, FSU is, in this year at least, probably the best team in the ACC, and we took them to OT at their place, just losing by a whisker.

[kyhoosier29]

5 hours ago, NCHoosier32 said:

this is what i said a week ago and had almost no one agree with me and many upset that i was so negative.  it is what it is.  i still love watching each game, and am so bummed we didn't pull that one out last night.  we should win a few against weak teams now and get excited again, but then we'll hit the B1G schedule.  

Record-wise? Or actually better? I’m completely dumbfounded by the people saying we aren’t better than last year.

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 hour ago, KoB2011 said:

I'm not sure what toughness has to do with mental health. 

I never indicated anything about that. And subsequently, he clarified Fife’s own comments. I guess u missed that 

[KoB2011]

4 minutes ago, Hoosierhoopster said:

I never indicated anything about that. And subsequently, he clarified Fife’s own comments. I guess u missed that 

Yeah - he clarified that Fife himself said he had the yips and had to go on medication. Again, not sure what Fife being a tough player has to do with mental health, which Fife clearly took a moment to open up about. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

My college coach would be laying into me big time in the post-game and the next day at practice if I had gooseeggs in rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, etc.  

The only other thing I can think of is with Brunk out, Archie doesn't want to waste and of Hunter's fouls on the wing, so he's keeping him primarily as a forward which is actually limiting his playing time? 

Could be. Merits watching going forward. 
 

I don’t know how well Hunter is doing in practice - though the players specifically referenced him along with Race as having a great summer - and I can’t say that he will definitely do great as a scorer and defensively this season, but he came out of the gate playing extremely well in the first game, we know he’s one of the best outside shooters on the team, we saw his mid-range hook in traffic in game 1, and we know Galloway has not shown any kind of shot so far (outside of at the rim), and is under-performing on the glass, and is a green frosh. It seriously bothers me that CAM limited Hunter in that game. It was wrong. 

[Hoosierhoopster]

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

Yeah - he clarified that Fife himself said he had the yips and had to go on medication. Again, not sure what Fife being a tough player has to do with mental health, which Fife clearly took a moment to open up about. 

Right but the tough comment came before he clarified it was a mental issue, and you seem to be looking to not pick at me. Why? 

[NCHoosier32]

28 minutes ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Record-wise? Or actually better? I’m completely dumbfounded by the people saying we aren’t better than last year.

i get your point and agree.  i think we are clearly more cohesive.  more fun to watch.  solid defensively.  i guess notably better than last year.  it's unfortunate record wise.  the B1G is really good and we also don't have as many cupcakes to pad our record.  i think we're better, but still say 14-13 or 15-12.  looks much worse than what we are, but we're looking at @ Iowa, @ Illinois, @ MSU, @ Wisconsin, @ Rutgers, @ OSU.  6 ranked teams on the road.  then @ Michigan who is right outside the tp 25 and @ Purdue.  then vs. Iowa, Mich St., and Illinois.  in my book if we win all of the rest of our games other than those... absolutely no slip ups to some other pretty good teams, that would be a decent season for our guys.  that would be 14-13.  now if we have absolutely no slip ups and pull off even let's say 2 of those games, then we're 16-11.  it's just hard for me to expect a lot more than somewhere in that area.  

[Hippopotamo]

Honesty who really cares what our record ends up being at the end of the year? If we safely make the tournament with a decent seed I’ll be content with this season. 

[IU878176]

14 hours ago, IU Scott said:

Looked at all of the stats and everything was so even but 3 stats.

TO's 14 IU. FSU 9

steals FSU 8-4

3's made 8-4

 

I saw your post last night saying you were at the zoo, and did not see the game, but some things do not show up in the stats.
We went up 65-62 in overtime, had the ball, and then had several possessions in which TJD was not involved. If Al etc did not try to force things we could have iced the game there.  

[Parakeet Jones]

12 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

Honesty who really cares what our record ends up being at the end of the year? If we safely make the tournament with a decent seed I’ll be content with this season. 

In all honesty, the record I’m most concerned about this year is our B1G record. I’m tired of being at our below 0.500 in conference. It’s time to be on the good side of 0.500. I really don’t think that’s asking too much in year four. If we do that, we will be safely in the NCAA. 

[CincyHoosier]

24 minutes ago, Hippopotamo said:

Honesty who really cares what our record ends up being at the end of the year? If we safely make the tournament with a decent seed I’ll be content with this season. 

Well it takes one to get the other so I think we all care what our record is...

[Hippopotamo]

Year one with Archie was our best big 10 record. Doesn’t really matter in the long run. Not saying I want us to go 7–13 or anything but for now I care more about improving each season and seeing what happens. 

[CincyHoosier]

1 hour ago, kyhoosier29 said:

Record-wise? Or actually better? I’m completely dumbfounded by the people saying we aren’t better than last year.

We may be marginally better, but if the competition around you is also better and the improvement is not translated into winning more games...does it matter?  I mean, us rabid fans may see the differences but to the casual fan or the talking heads does it really resonate? 

Again, we beat a better FSU team last year in this same challenge.  That's not debatable.  So "hanging with them" or beating an average Stanford team does not show progress.  More consistent winning is the sign of progress.  The guys have a chance to show us in the next couple months, but it won't be easy. 

[IU Scott]

53 minutes ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i get your point and agree.  i think we are clearly more cohesive.  more fun to watch.  solid defensively.  i guess notably better than last year.  it's unfortunate record wise.  the B1G is really good and we also don't have as many cupcakes to pad our record.  i think we're better, but still say 14-13 or 15-12.  looks much worse than what we are, but we're looking at @ Iowa, @ Illinois, @ MSU, @ Wisconsin, @ Rutgers, @ OSU.  6 ranked teams on the road.  then @ Michigan who is right outside the tp 25 and @ Purdue.  then vs. Iowa, Mich St., and Illinois.  in my book if we win all of the rest of our games other than those... absolutely no slip ups to some other pretty good teams, that would be a decent season for our guys.  that would be 14-13.  now if we have absolutely no slip ups and pull off even let's say 2 of those games, then we're 16-11.  it's just hard for me to expect a lot more than somewhere in that area.  

Going into the season what did you think our record by would be in the non conference.  I thought we would be 5-2 and it looks like that should be the case.

[BobSaccamanno]

Some realistic thoughts.  
 

1.  IU lost because we aren’t good enough.  We haven’t figured out how to win games like that.  They made the plays to win with dynamic guys and we haven’t developed enough of that.   Whether that’s ok after four years, everyone can make their own individual choices.  

2.  If we work Lander and Geronimo in slowly, we need to give them mini goals for improvement and gauge their progress.  Lander was in awe last night.  He’s too talented for that.  Give him goals he can achieve.  For example, when we play Iowa, put him on Bohannon and don’t let him get hot.  I don’t want to see Bo hit 7 threes.  It should be decided we might lose, but he ain’t hitting 7 threes.  Let’s face it, we all know he will.  It’s not hindsight though.  Decide it before the game, it ain’t happening.  
3.  Galloway was a sieve against the drive.  Absolutely love the kid, but FSU’s eyes were huge when he was in.  They were well coached to attack him.  
4.  We need more length with quickness.  I’m intrigued by Reed from St Louis.  A quick guy would be even better.  A guy like Jeff Newton would be huge for us.  
5.  Durham is a nice player.  But as a shooter, we need him in catch and shoot situations.  He shot some with the ball off the dribble.  Get him off the ball and give him some catch and shoots when open.  His defense is still spotty.  I haven’t forgiven him for his worse than lackluster defense last year in the Knight homecoming against Purdue when his defense was embarrassing as he let Purdue scrubs torch him.  A Big Ten title team is almost assuredly not starting Durham or playing him down the stretch.  This is the type of upgrade we need. 
6.  I hope we get Parker Lewis or Parker Stevenson or whatever his name is.  I think he can give us a huge lift and lower the burden on Durham.  He’d give us a more dynamic scorer.  

7.  Jerome Hunter hit two threes and fans love that.  What coaches didn’t like is his poor ball handling and lack of quickness defensively.  He had an unforgivable turnover yet again that causes coaches to not trust him.  There’s a reason why he didn’t play late.  It’s not because they are dumb.  Coaches need to trust the players.  Remember, he blew the Maryland game last year with a mind boggling turnover.   Hunter is a tweener.  He’s really a stretch four in a three’s body.  But he is below average handling it or putting it on the deck for a three-man He struggles defensively against quickness at the three position.  He could have come in some for Race later to shoot but we’d give up strength and rebounding.  It’s a quandary.  
8.  Phinisee is essentially the same guy who came in three years ago.  He doesn’t assert himself.  He is just there running back and forth.  I see a kid who can do anything.   Drive, pass, shoot, defend.  But on offense he just doesn’t get forceful.  He needs to.   
9.  For fans content to lose to Texas and FSU, that’s not Indiana basketball.  You win or you’re frustrated.  I also suspect people aren’t watching conference games because there are teams in the B1G that will be way better.  If we are satisfied to say “oh well, they are quick and long,” we are going to get killed in the B1G.  
10.  We need an assistant coach that helps shooting and skill development.  For example, Franklin is a very tough player who I really like but his shot is a total mess.  He needs to get himself straightened out with a repeatable form and rhythm.  This should have been dealt with over the summer.  I realize we had Covid but this is fixable.  Otherwise it’s going to cap his ceiling.   I’d hate to see that because he could be a complete player and a winner.  Nice guy, but I’m not sure what Roberts is bringing to the table.  No discernible improvement on the floor or via recruiting can be attributed to him.  Sometimes tough decisions need to be made.  
11.  One plus is the defense is tough as nails.  But things are not going swimmingly overall.  I’d rather be realistic than just shrug and say we will get them next time.  
12.  Speaking of 12, keep an eye on Nevada and see how they progress.  Dolson was a manager when Alford played.  The ex players might just say, ok you’ve exhausted every other possibility of non-family coaches, and it hasn’t worked.  You might see an uproar for Alford after next season.   Keep an eye on how they are doing.   I’m not advocating for him, just predicting where this may be headed.  

[OLDIUFAN]

I don’t know if it really matters if IU would have won the game. The Big Ten Commissioner would have deemed that the game ended 4 minutes earlier while FSU was ahead therefore OSU was the winner! 😂

[rico]

3 hours ago, BGleas said:

I honestly don't know. I tend to think after 5 games that our guard play is not good enough to make a leap in the conference, but it is still early. 

I think Phinisee has to be better than an average, middle of the pack Big Ten point guard for this team to make a leap, but right now that is what he is. 

Franklin has shown signs. He was fantastic in the Stanford game and has shown flashes in other games, but can he elevate his game consistently as a sophomore? I'm not sure he can. 

Our guard play is a huge concern right now. The flip side is, we just lost by 2 point in OT to the #20 team on the road, so maybe our guard play isn't as far away as we are perceiving it to be?

I'll just echo what I've been saying, the season rests on Phinisee, Franklin, Thompson and Hunter. As of now, Thompson is the only one that's made a consistent improvement. 

I am not here to argue nor am I here to sugar coat anything.  Our guard play sucks and has sucked the last few years.  Al and Rob are part of that suckiness in a big way.  It ain't like they play great 5 games in a row and then have a down game.  They have 5 down games in a row and then have a great game.  We all want the great games on a consistent basis.  But the norm is we don't, haven't, and I doubt we ever will.  I am freaking sick and tired of excuses.  They ain't cutting the mustard, time for them to get off the hot dog.

[IUFLA]

5 minutes ago, rico said:

I am not here to argue nor am I here to sugar coat anything.  Our guard play sucks and has sucked the last few years.  Al and Rob are part of that suckiness in a big way.  It ain't like they play great 5 games in a row and then have a down game.  They have 5 down games in a row and then have a great game.  We all want the great games on a consistent basis.  But the norm is we don't, haven't, and I doubt we ever will.  I am freaking sick and tired of excuses.  They ain't cutting the mustard, time for them to get off the hot dog.

😉

[OGIUAndy]

He's my quick assessment. We have some of the same issues as last year, but we are a better team. 

[go_iu_bb]

9 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

Some realistic thoughts.  
 

1.  IU lost because we aren’t good enough.  We haven’t figured out how to win games like that.  They made the plays to win with dynamic guys.   Whether that’s ok after four years, everyone can make their own individual choices.  

2.  If we work Lander and Geronimo in slowly, we need to give them mini goals for improvement and gauge their progress.  Lander was in awe last night.  He’s too talented for that.  Give him goals he can achieve.  For example, when we play Iowa, put him on Bohannon and don’t let him get hot.  I don’t want want to see him hit 7 threes.  It should be decided we might lose, but he ain’t hitting 7 threes.  Let’s face it, we all know he will.  It’s not hindsight though.  Decide it before the game, it ain’t happening.  
3.  Galloway was a sieve against the drive.  Absolutely love the kid, but FSU’s eyes were huge when he was in.  They were well coached to attack him.  
4.  We need more length with quickness.  I’m intrigued by Reed from St Louis.  A quick guy would be even better,  A guy like Jeff Newton would be huge for us.  
5.  Durham is a nice player.  As a shooter, we need him in catch and shoot situations.  He shot some with the ball off the dribble.  Get him off the ball and give him some catch and shoots when open.  His defense is still spotty.  I haven’t forgiven him for his worse than lackluster defense last year in the Knight homecoming against Purdue when his defense was embarrassing as he let Purdue scrubs torch him.  A Big Ten title team is almost assuredly not starting Durham or playing him down the stretch.  This is the type of upgrade we need. 
6.  I hope we get Parker Lewis or Parker Stevenson or whatever his name is.  I think he can give us a huge lift and lower the burden on Durham.  He’d give us a more dynamic scorer.  

7.  Jerome Hunter hit two threes abd fans love that.  What coaches didn’t like is his poor ball handling and lack of quickness defensively.  He had an unforgivable turnover that causes coaches to not trust him.  There’s a reason why he didn’t play late.  It’s not because they are dumb.  Coaches need to trust the players.  Remember he blew the Maryland game last year with a mind boggling turnover.   Hunter is a tweener.  He’s really a stretch four in a three’s body.  But he is below average handling it or putting it on the deck for a three.  He struggles defensively against quickness at the three.  He could have come in some for Race later to shoot but we’d give up strength and rebounding.  It’s a quandary.  
8.  Phinisee is essentially the guy who came in three years ago.  He doesn’t assert himself.  He is just there running back and forth.  I see a kid who can do anything.   Drive, pass, shoot, defend.  But on offense he just doesn’t get forceful.  He needs to.   
9.  For fans content to lose to Texas and FSU, that’s not Indiana basketball.  You win or you’re frustrated.  I also suspect people aren’t watching conference games because there are teams in the B1G that will be way better.  If we are satisfied to say “oh well they are quick and long,” we are going to get killed in the B1G.  
10.  We need a coach that helps shooting.  Franklin is a nice player who I like but his shot is a total mess.  He needs to get himself straightened out with a repeatable form and rhythm.  This should have been dealt with over the summer.  I realize we had Covid but this is fixable.  Otherwise it’s going to cap his ceiling.   I’d hate to see that because he could be a complete player and a winner.  
11.  One plus is the defense is tough as nails.  But things are not going swimmingly.  I’d rather be realistic than just shrug and say we will get them next time.  
12.  Speaking of 12, keep an eye on Nevada and see how they progress.  Dolson was a manager when Alford played.  The ex players might just say, ok you’ve exhausted every other possibility of non family coaches, and it hasn’t worked.  You might see an uproar for Alford after next season.   Keep an eye on how they are doing.   I’m not advocating for him, just predicting where this may be headed.  

Ugh, if the choice is between Alford and Miller I'd rather just hang on to Miller. I'm on the fence about Miller but I really don't want Alford as coach.

Someone other than TJD really needs to step up as a reliable second option. Preferably someone who will be back at least for next year. Just think of how bad this team is offensively and then remove TJD. That's what we're looking at in year 5. So I guess if this year doesn't work out Miller will need a few more years before we can realistically see a large enough increase in the level of play for IU that they could go into a game like this expecting a win. 

[BobSaccamanno]

3 minutes ago, go_iu_bb said:

Ugh, if the choice is between Alford and Miller I'd rather just hang on to Miller. I'm on the fence about Miller but I really don't want Alford as coach.

Someone other than TJD really needs to step up as a reliable second option. Preferably someone who will be back at least for next year. Just think of how bad this team is offensively and then remove TJD. That's what we're looking at in year 5. So I guess if this year doesn't work out Miller will need a few more years before we can realistically see a large enough increase in the level of play for IU that they could go into a game like this expecting a win. 

I don’t like Alford as a coach either.  But we have the Dolson connection and a bad track record for guys outside the IU family.   I’d prefer Miller fix it but if he goes, say, 15-13 and 17-15 this year and next, we all know what will happen with Miller.   Who they hire is a premature question but Alford may have some drum beat.  

[go_iu_bb]

5 minutes ago, IUFLA said:

😉

Not enough sugar, I can still see the donut. Or, in IU's case, the ugly offense after another offseason of the players not improving as much as they needed to for the team to have a breakout season.

[rico]

Newsflash:  Al and Rob have been key ingredients on some pretty damn lackluster teams.  I look at common denominators...and I see two.

[IU Scott]

2 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I don’t like Alford as a coach either.  But we have the Dolson connection and a bad track record for guys outside the IU family.   I’d prefer Miller fix it but if he goes, say, 15-13 and 17-15 this year and next, we all know what will happen with Miller.   Who they hire is a premature question but Alford may have some drum beat.  

The next time we have an opening and it happens in a couple of years it will be another mid major coach