IUCrazy2

37 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

Got it. Do you think other major programs don’t have those same issues? I will admit to not following what other fanbases do closely, so I can’t do anything more than guess.

I can see how our issues, good and bad, scale because of the size of our fan base. Seems like you need the right personality to embrace the high risk, high reward of playing/coaching here. 

None of the other fan bases that compare to Indiana are in as big of a rut as we are now.  Louisville might be the closest.  What does their Twitter look like?  Kentucky people would be apoplectic about the state of their program if they had suffered through our past two decades.  Same with North Carolina and Kansas.

Look at Ohio State in football.  Two really good years where they didn't beat a rival or make the college playoffs and they are already howling.  Indiana fans were too patient back in the early 2000's.  We should have gone crazy and ran a whole bunch of people out of the University but we kind of sat back and waited thinking things would right themselves.  They won't.  All of the built in benefits of a program like Indiana are an advantage only if being properly directed.  It is a rudderless program and has been for awhile.

11 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

But our fans are the problem

 

 

That kind of fan support is a blessing when things are going well and a curse when it isn't.  In basketball we are like 1980's and 90's and early 2000's Alabama.  Just kind of mediocre for the most part.  They had their title in 1992 and we had a run in 2001.  Other than that, they were kind of meh from 1980 to 2009.  Sure there were seasons here and there that were good but nothing huge to write home about.

Then they got their guy and things took off.  That is Indiana.  This place is hard to coach at if you are just kind of mediocre.  People want to win.  The fan support is awesome if people feel like things are progressing forward.  When things start to turn south though, the patience isn't there.  I think as a coach you have to embrace that reality.

You cannot go into a bunker here and you cannot look like you are treating this like a hobby.  If you aren't winning, you have to be as honest as you can be with why.  "My guys aren't getting it..."  OK, so what are you doing about that?  If things are going well though, this place is magical.  There are few that can compare.

30 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

We don’t have any scholly players from Indiana who were  recruited out of HS by this coaching staff. CJ, Leal & Gallo were all CAM recruits. Sparks was a transfer who dreamed of playing for IU.

We are going to be upset if he piddles away the in state 2025 class....

11 hours ago, Lurker said:

I think beyond the right type of kid and right fit, there needs to be assistants that can coach to their system. I don't like that coach Hunter is still on staff. He's been a voice in the players ears since the CAM days. I can see retaining him in the first year for recruiting/retention if need be but he should have been replaced by now. As several people have posted on HSN, there is data showing lineups that have been effective and should be exploited and I think there needs to be someone on staff that can communicate that to CMW.  If he can't or won't see that, then perhaps he is too stuck in his ways to get the maximum from the roster. As someone over 60, I can understand CMW wanting the work environment to be as pleasant for him as possible but I don't think that will allow him to be as successful as he needs to be. I think he needs assistants that can teach the game and get guys better, much like Painter has done. I could be wrong but i thought at one time he had Shrewsberry working offense and Lusk defense. Purdue seems to pretty good at inserting guys like Braden Smith, that aren't highly rated, and getting results immediately. I just fear at this stage in his life CMW can't or won't do what needs to be done.

All of this.  I think at least Hunter needs to go (who was the last guy he was the lead recruiter for that we actually got?) and I would almost send Rosemond packing as well.  Walsh has been the main recruiter for the majority of the guys we have actually landed lately.  Mgbako fell in our lap.  Not sure who was on Ware.  However, it was my understanding that Hulls was the person identifying who we should be talking to in the portal last year (he didn't do the talking though).

Woodson will be here next year.  I am 100% convinced of that.  I still don't think he is the solution but he can be the bridge still.  We need him to put together 1-3 more good years after this and then step aside.  I think in order to do that, he is going to have to shake up his staff and bring in some assistants who actually coach to the college game.  At least 1 of the 3 assistants he has now has to go IMO.

4 hours ago, bluegrassIU said:

I wish we could be a little more dominant against mid levele teams, and more competitive against the elite teams.

With that said, the ladies took care of business. 

16-2 (7-1) is hard to complain about  

 

Rivalry games can lead to strange results.  Iowa lost today so being in a tie for first is a pretty good place to be when they have to come play us in Bloomington still.  We have to travel to Ohio State still but they have to play at Iowa too.

18 hours ago, BADGERVOL said:

Absolutely freaking no way in heck…keep Alford as far from this program as possible. 1.) because he’s proven nothing as a coach. 2.) because he is an arrogant a hole.

He absolutely is worse than Woodson. At least with Woodson it was possible. Hiring Alford is saying “well not be anything then average at best and fire HIM after 5-6 years and have to wait even longer for the next stab.

No sir count me out on Alford.

Never.

Disagree.  He wouldn't be my first choice but if you were going to pick the most "ready" IU guy, he would have been it.

"But, but, but he is an a-hole and failed at the last big programs he was at."  We would all kill for his "failure" at UCLA right now.  He had a .663 winning percentage and went to 3 Sweet 16's in 5 years.  He has proven more as a Coach than Mike Woodson.  Come on.  People just don't like him because of the arrogance thing but I bet he would have done better than Woodson.

I don't think we had to hire an Indiana guy, but if we did, he was a better choice.  

2 hours ago, 13th&Jackson said:

If Doyle said that Woodson hired Matta, he’s wrong. Dolson hired Matta and he worked for Dolson. This is from an Indy Star article. 
 

“The job was the creation of IU athletic director Scott Dolson, who said he came up with it after his discussion with Woodson in New York when he approached Woodson about the job. Woodson called himself a collaborator and indicated he wanted to have a relationship with Dolson similar to the one he had with Glenn Grunwald who was his teammate at IU and then the general manager when Woodson was head coach of the New York Knicks. Dolson realized he couldn't work with Woodson on that constant of a basis because of his responsibilities to the rest of the department, but decided Matta would be the perfect fit for the role.”

Yes, and reportedly Woodson did not like the idea that he needed help and he barely listened to Matta...if you believe the rumor mill.

8 hours ago, KoB2011 said:

He’s shooting 50/50/90 on the season. If you look at the thing that really jumps out to me is not the three point shooting, but how absurd he’s been from two. I have to assume it’s a lot of layups and dunks, but it’s still amazing from a guard.

Good for Tamar. 

He finally turned into the guy we thought he was going to be when he was here.

I still believe it is the system.

11 minutes ago, 13th&Jackson said:

I get what you’re saying, but that aside, I don’t even understand the NCAA involvement in this

“Rashada bailed on Florida after the Gator Collective — an independent fundraising group that’s loosely tied to the university and pays student-athletes for use of their name, image and likeness — failed to honor a multiyear deal that was signed by both sides.”

Not only that, why is Florida involved?  The collectives are supposed to be separate from the schools.  The NCAA and the institution have nothing in that.  The kid would have to get himself a lawyer and sue the collective for breach of contract. 

5 minutes ago, Cbp4IU said:

CBI?

If any AD at Indiana accepts an invite to that garbage they should be fired.  I think they have had to accept NIT in the past.  Back in the day you could make an argument that the extra time for that was worthwhile but not in today's environment.  Players coming and going too often at this level to think you are getting any development there.  The extra time ends up being to the benefit of some other program in most cases.

Just now, NCHoosier32 said:

At the end of the year you can come back and ask me what all that one in a million talk was about.

1 minute ago, IU Scott said:

Last night Himmel did say something about how IU went through a lot of coaches since RMK.

I think that is because we try and win the press conference too much as opposed to finding the right guy.  We have money to spend and you can hire dynamic recruiters.  Sometimes the best hire is going to appear really boring in the press conference.

You just have to have someone in place doing the choosing who knows what they are looking for and has a plan.  I don't know how true all the Brad Stevens stuff was the last go around but not having a solid Plan B before swinging for the fences was stupid and I know he isn't Mr. Popular with a bunch of fans but if you were going to go and hire an "IU guy" to be the bridge, it should have been Alford.  I don't think that was best available but it would have been better than Woodson IMO.

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

I don’t think this team will win all the remaining home games or even all but one, and I really don’t feel good about the road games.

 Wisconsin, Nebraska, Northwestern, Iowa and Michigan State are going to come in and expect to beat us, no matter where the game is played. Why wouldn’t those teams think they’re beating us?

I wouldn't even bet a dollar that we could do it but there is technically a chance.

1 minute ago, NCHoosier32 said:

i can't even imagine 20 wins.  need 8... home vs Iowa and Penn St., home vs. NW and Neb?  home vs MSU?  that's 5.  i mean 1 in the B1G tourney?  then you're still looking for 2 more assuming you win all of those home games.  so home vs Wisc?  maybe?  then a road game?  super hard to imagine.  

So this is all predicated on having to fix some things.  That being said, we have 6 home games left and then away games against Penn St., Maryland, Minnesota, and Ohio St. (we aren't going to beat Illinois or Purdue on the road).  It is a long shot but we do play better at home and outside of Wisconsin there really isn't anything that impressive about the rest of our home slate.  So win out at home and split on the road against the 4 mediocre teams left on the schedule and it you could do it.

I think we have the players that could do it but it would likely require a whole host of changes from the top down over this bye week to get done.

All that being said, do I expect that at this point?  No, not at all.  However, the schedule from here on out isn't terrible if you were looking to stack wins and even if they were to win 8 more that isn't going to get them in the tournament.  Right now Woodson has to be building his case for portal players that there is a reason to come here and for current players to stay invested.  

39 minutes ago, Inequality said:

I just want to hang on to Malik. I can see everyone else wanting to transfer after experiencing this mess that they wouldn’t have experienced somewhere else. 

I want to hang onto him if he learns how to pass out of the post.  We had a play last night that actually went into Sparks.  Wisconsin brought the double and he passed to a wide open and ready to shoot Galloway who buried the shot.  That is something Malik needs to learn.

I think Cupps can and will be good if given the right direction.  Still have Newton sitting over there.  Keep McNeeley as your 3 and maybe even bring Galloway back for another year and you have pieces to build around.  Cupps, Galloway, Mgbako, Reneau, and Ware are one of the most efficient line ups in the country.  We have pieces, we just need a new systemic approach.  Now I would want to add some guys still obviously but you could probably make some hay with Cupps, Galloway, McNeeley, a stretch 4, and Reneau.  Go in the portal and get a veteran guard to take over and bring Gabe off the bench to develop more and even better.  Get 2 guards and have Gabe and Galloway be bench guys and you are really cooking.

That is going to take Woodson getting his butt out there this summer though.  

4 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

 

I mean...at least we are good at something right?

Ya gotta laugh at this point KoB2011.  Either that or get way too upset about something we really have no control of.  I have been trying to tell myself all year that it is stupid for me to care about this more than the people with the closest investment to it all appear to be.

5 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

That would be 4 losses the rest of the way. I think there’s a better chance we finish under .500 than we win 20 games. 

There is quite a bit of garbage left on the schedule.  Not saying I expect it but it isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility if Woodson starts feeling the heat enough to make some of the very clear and easy changes available to him.

4 minutes ago, Basketball Junkie said:

This was just a terrible experiment from the beginning. The big mistake was trying to pacify those that wanted an "IU guy" .  At the time it seemed like an obvious reach and a desperation hire. I think it's far enough in to see that it was a major miss. But that hire has put them into such a bad place. Can you really fire him? The IU alum. The guy that Buckner seemingly hand picked?  I don't think that happens. Maybe if the remainder of the season just falls apart, even worse than what it has to this point. Best case is probably that they can convince Woodson it's time for him to "retire". That might be enough to somewhat save face for all parties.

It is turning into the worst case scenario worry that people had about the hire.  It will be turned into another instance of "fan expectations are just too high there, look how quick they turned on one of their own..."  That will be the narrative that gets played out and that is what most people who aren't paying attention will hear.

At best this was a bridge hire.  You hoped for some stability and then a passing of the torch to the next guy.  You looked to reestablish a connection to that past culture.  You hoped to make this a place that was attractive to big recruits with NIL and exciting "NBA style" play.  We got none of that.

Whether to retain or not is going to depend on how big of a disaster this ends up being.  Do they right the ship enough to get to 20 wins?  That probably buys him some time.  If the wheels completely fall off, I think you see players heading for the exits and then you HAVE to make a change.  You can't have a lame duck, with one signed recruit, going into the transfer portal trying to build a whole team.  You just can't.

53 minutes ago, jojo123 said:

There is definitely a system in play here that needs to be destroyed! Who’s running the system? Don’t tell me the fans are the reason we can’t get a great coach. The fans at Duke, Kentucky, Kansas are no different. 
 

The fans have been the only thing keeping this place appealing for a long while.

Just now, jojo123 said:

The reaction from Gunn tells all. 1. He needs to grow up and quit thinking he’s the victim. The goes for x as well. Nobody is trying to hold them down or back. Become your own man. 2. Wisky was just taking advantage by exploiting a young man’s mental weakness.3. As a team we are mentally weak! 4. As a player why would you be afraid or not want to go to someone’s gym and not live beating the hell out of them and bringing down the boo birds? Absolute best feeling I ever had as a player. These players want to crawl in hole? 

I don't think these guys want to lose.  I think they have been set up to lose because their coaching staff isn't doing their job.  At a certain point they know the definition of insanity too.  Bates left our program and suddenly became a better player.  The system holds them back and that has to get frustrating.

Heck, the reaction from Gunn is at least some emotion.  I would have lost my sh** about the state of things awhile ago.

Just now, KoB2011 said:

 

My last words on it.  I disagree.  I have seen the play several times and I don't agree with the ejection.  We aren't going to change each other's minds.  Which is fine.  You feel you are right and I can live with tthat.  I just disagree.

We get another chance at these guys in Bloomington.  I hope Gunn is ready to talk with his play on the return trip.

Just now, KoB2011 said:

Gunn’s elbow came all the way up above Gunn’s own shoulder. He didn’t elbow at chest height, he targeted his head. 

See above, I don't want to go around and around on it.  I just disagree on the severity of the punishment given what was going on.

3 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

That would be a terrible argument. He intentionally elbowed a guy in the head in a non-basketball play. It was the easiest call of the game. 

No, a guy kept putting his body on his and he shook him off and made contact with the head because that is what the guy was hitting him with.

We aren't going to agree.  I hear your point and just disagree.  I think it should have been an F1 and the Wisconsin player should have got a technical.

2 minutes ago, KoB2011 said:

There’s literally nothing to agree to disagree on. It’s a black and white interpretation of the rule.

We don’t ask referees to determine if there is malicious intent. 

They do interpret it all the time.  I could make the argument it wasn't intentional contact with the head.

1 minute ago, KoB2011 said:

It was warranted and there really wasn’t any wiggle room. That was about the easiest call the referees had all night to eject Gunn and  it call anything on Wisconsin.

There is absolutely nothing about an offensive player leaning into their defender that warrants that. 

We will just have to agree to disagree on that.  I think Wisconsin gets away with that sh** all the time.  Gunn got caught on the reaction and it wasn't malicious.  It is the type of movement you do if someone licks their finger and keeps sticking it on your upper arm.  You shake your arm to get it off.

Was it smart?  No.  Malicious?  Nah.