IUFLA

I think there's an analytic to explain what you just said

Get older! Maybe Archie and the IU administration need to start looking at pensions for those types...

Very kind of you to re-read what I wrote, but no need to apologize to me at all... And I DO understand the frustration. It IS frustrating that we can't carry on a normal life. As I said, I do all of the little things that I can personally, although I will cop to the fact that we probably go out more than we should (3 or 4 times a week) to eat (and my rationalization there is it's for our mental well being, and we do go out later, always after 8:30 when the crowds have thinned out). I also think that there's plenty of common ground outside of the COVID conversation that we can find to eliminate other problems our country has. At times I wonder if the philosophical fissure is too wide for us to recover from. Government gridlock can be a dangerous thing. I've promised myself that I will no longer vote for any candidate who is not willing to work across the aisle. This needs to stop. These people ALL work for us, or are at least supposed to. Infrastructure, the eventual transition to renewable fuels, reforming immigration, and creating opportunities for all Americans should be the goals. It'll take compromise, but that's in the job description as far as I'm concerned...

Isn't it at least possible that Brunk comes back?

Nothing political in my post at all...unless someone has an aversion to the truth...

I was going to leave this thread, but I wanted to clear a few things up first... I made this statement... "We try to stem the tide without too much daily disruption until a vaccine is widely available. That's all we can do..." To which @tdhoosier replied... "That’s all we can do? Really? Yes, Mother Nature will run it’s course, but we are smart enough beings to limit the damage. You don’t just throw up your hands and give up." I'm not sure if the phrase "stem the tide" was somehow misconstrued, but if it was, this is the common meaning... Stop the course of a trend or tendency...In no way does it even insinuate "giving up." As I initially thought, most of the rhetoric was meant to cast blame, even though that was denied. @tdhoosierwanted to focus on contact tracing, and I cited an article from "The Atlantic" that admitted that the horse was kinda out of the barn on that one...Can we try? Sure we can...And I'd be all for it... But I also think condemning the protests/riots/gatherings/marches ON BOTH SIDES helps stem the tide...Wear a mask, social distance, and for right now sacrifice your 1st amendment rights for the greater good...Of course, Thanksgiving gatherings are more dangerous 🙄 People talk about WWII, NASA, and American Ingenuity...How about fast tracked vaccines? The step up in manufacturing PPE? Ventilators (that we now donate to other countries)? As I initially thought, there was an agenda...It came out...But I knew it from the get-go... And I'll end this rant by saying that I really do consider @Hoosierhoopster @Lostin76and @tdhoosierfriends...If I disavowed anyone that didn't particularly think like I do, I'd be discounting about half of our population... And at least to me, friendships, even on an internet forum, are much too difficult to come by in the first place for me to ever consider that...

Decided to delete my post...not worth it...

I have a tagline on my email. It's a quote from Henry Ford... "Don't find fault, find a remedy." I try to practice that and believe me, I work in a industry where there's plenty of remedy that needs to be found. You seem obsessed with assessing blame for some reason. I do subscribe to the notion that "those who don't understand history are bound to repeat it" but continually looking to blame doesn't solve anything. It just widens the divide. Understand history, and use the lessons learned... We should have initiated a travel ban right from the start...Oh, wait! We did! And we were widely panned for it. We should have instituted an internal travel ban. The cities with the largest amount of cases should have been shut down, including ALL travel. But while NYC did lockdown, the lack of an internal travel ban has them back in dangerous territory. Who should have invoked that ban? The federal government? State? Local?Well, it never happened, and the contact tracing (get it anonymously? Really? Think that one would pass the Constitutionality test?) hasn't happened on a wide scale. So we are where we are. What did we focus on? Well, martialing resources, both human and supplies, to the right places. Working on vaccines and treatments, and protecting the most vulnerable. As far as the spread goes, how many lives have been sacrificed by the numerous protests/riots/gatherings (including those in DC this weekend) in cities like Minneapolis and Kenosha...two very hot spots right now...was the Constitutional right of those people to assemble more dear than the innocent lives it will without a doubt cost? Should federal/state/local governments moved to shut them down? My point in all of this is, we HAVE to find the balance between this awful pandemic and normal life. I don't think it's fair to compare numbers from countries that aren't even as big as some of our states. I don't play "devil's advocate." I'm a realist who sees the world for what it is. I bring up the situation in Japan because it's relevant and lends to my point about balance and not having the cure be more damaging than the disease. Worry more about where we go from here rather that constantly looking in the rear view mirror... As Rafiki said in "The Lion King" "It's in the past."

But that was my point. No one can project how many lives were saved by the actions we did take. And no one can with any certainty say what the numbers would be if we'd went full blown nationwide lockdown. There's no baseline here to measure against, but we're right around 10% of what the projected total was. A vaccine is just around the corner. It is the reality. I'm not sure contact tracing can be effective in the US for 2 reasons. Were too far down the road according to this article from The Atlantic. And comparing contact tracing in South Korea, Iceland, and New Zealand to the United States is a bit of a reach. You cited contact tracing in China a few posts ago, but is that accurate? In The Atlantic article I cited one of the reasons the US efforts on contact tracing haven't been successful is because of "mistrust of the government" particularly among African Americans and Hispanics who according to the article "twice as susceptible" to the virus. I would imagine there are quite a few Chinese that distrust their government, but aren't brave enough to refuse to give information, or even say it publicly. And no worries. We've respectfully disagreed before, and we're still friends...I always appreciate your opinions and views...

And if you look at the initial projections, we have "limited the damage" ... Did you miss the part where I said I wear a mask? I social distance? Those are the concessions I'm making. I don't think I said "give up" at all. My post was about balancing between the hysterical people who want a total lockdown versus the ignorant people who don't want to make any concessions. You're confusing "giving up" and being realistic, I guess. Yes, and the mental health aspect is taking its toll.. And it's doing so here too...Overdoses, alcoholism, domestic disputes all up. You have as yet to explain exactly what it is you'd have our local, state, and federal governments do beyond what's already in place. I'd like to hear what you're thinking.

Really happy for you and your fiancee, @btownqb! Congratulations! Got a date set?

What the OC was doing on the sideline before this? Coloring?

Per capita, which is really the only fair way to look at it, that's not true. As for the raw numbers, maybe we test more and are reporting more truthfully (or over reporting the deaths by attributing the death of a person with other health issues to COVID), than other countries. No one really knows. But I've said this before and I'll say it now. Mother Nature is going to get hers. We can take precautions, sure, but the death toll in the US is a far cry from the initial forecast. We have no real idea what the numbers would be if we'd done nothing or if we'd effected a total lockdown, so, at least to me, lamenting or downplaying the numbers is simply shouting at the sky. I wear a mask at indoor places. I try to social distance. But I'm not going to stop doing what I do. We go out. We shop. We eat. We see our family. Portraying COVID-19 as a death sentence is inaccurate, and, to me, a despicable scare tactic. I'm not saying you're doing that, @Hoosierhoopster, but it is being done in the media. The number of people who die solely from COVID is minute. People who are vulnerable should take extra precautions. But the mental health toll on the physically healthy is already monumental and growing. Were NOT going to "beat" this. Doesn't work that way. We try to stem the tide without too much daily disruption until a vaccine is widely available. That's all we can do...

So Case's are Dodges?

You need to watch those 2! They usually showed up about 3 am in the d to ds at the drive in. Always an indicator of quality Hollywood work... And if you were lucky, "Reefer Madness" would follow...

Glad I moved...

From one of the great live albums of the 70s...Awesome guitar solo by Drew Abbott...

I thought you'd throw "The Blob" with your guy Steve McQueen in there... How about 2 drive-in dusk to dawn staples..."The Amazing Colossal Man" and the sequel "War of the Colossal Beast."

First text I got this morning... The second... And the 3rd... They were even in order...oldest first, middle second, youngest last... And a Veterans Day salute to my father in law the late Paul Honer, who fought with Patton's 3rd Army, including the relief of Bastogne, and my uncle, the late Mark Greenleaf who survived Pearl Harbor aboard the USS Raleigh. And to all of our Veterans on this board...salute to you all...

Yep, Vince Lombardi. In my eyes, still the greatest coach in NFL history...and I despise the Packers...

Nope

Landry started his pro coaching career as the defensive coordinator for the Giants...at the same time, they had an offensive coordinator who is just as famous...know who that was?