Rutgers Post Game Thread

[BobSaccamanno]

2 hours ago, Fundamentals said:

Really hope the following Hoosiers return:

Race (seems clear this is not likely)

Duncomb (not ready, but shows potential)

Bates

X

Geronimo (feel for this guy, he has shown a lot off the bench, but does not seem to reap reward as he should for such play)

Galloway

Leal

and then the 3 incoming of Banks, Hood-Schifino, and Gunn

I want Trayce back, especially if Race is gone (and his decision to give a speech may signal that).  I don't think the issue is Trayce; it's how we over-rely on him and choke off the offense as a byproduct of doing so.  Keep him but a run a more diverse offense, with more help at the wing.

Either way, we need a big guy who can legitimately spread the floor but is rugged enough to rebound and defend.  

Trayce and Race are two players I truly do like a lot.  The only issue is they are not the ideal complements to each other.  

Not knowing the kid, but I hope Lander stays.  I may be the last person standing who still has hopes for him.  The issue right now is defense and physical strength.  In terms of defense, I just don't know him well enough.  He has to truly want it defensively.  That pride you need to stop somebody.  I haven't seen that dog in him yet.  If he gets it and gets stronger, I think he can get better.  He's got the quickness to keep the ball in front of him, although the execution is a mess.  

Edited March 3, 2022 by BobSaccamanno

[BobSaccamanno]

15 hours ago, FKIM01 said:

I love the new avatar.  It couldn't fit much better.

[AxnJxn]

44 minutes ago, BobSaccamanno said:

I want Trayce back, especially if Race is gone (and his decision to give a speech may signal that).  I don't think the issue is Trayce; it's how we over-rely on him and choke off the offense as a byproduct of doing so.  Keep him but a run a more diverse offense, with more help at the wing.

Either way, we need a big guy who can legitimately spread the floor but is rugged enough to rebound and defend.  

Trayce and Race are two players I truly do like a lot.  The only issue is they are not the ideal complements to each other.  

Definitely agree. Losing both will hurt a ton on the defensive end - having two defenders that size around the paint with shot blocking ability allows the perimeter guys to tighten up, they're solid rebounders on both ends, and Race is getting more confident from the outside (and a nice correction by Hummel on that during the game last night). Both of them are also great for the program off the court. 

I do like Durr, but we're really thin up front after that if both TJD and Race leave. 

[Steubenhoosier]

1 hour ago, tdhoosier said:

I hope you’re right but that post seems like deja vu to me. 

Some were calling Bates a ‘pro’ in September and writing him to the starting line up (sheepishly raises hand). Lander was going to solve all our problems at point guard. Romeo was going to carry us on his back. 

Hope springs eternal. 

IMO, recruits come second to creating a culture and a system the players buy into. I’m not paying attention to recruits until we get a foundation laid. 

…actually recruiting may come third these days: after the transfer portal. 

And I believe CMW laid the foundation for his culture when 5 young men sat on the bench v Northwestern

[Inequality]

To be honest I’ve never gave this guy a second of thought. Lately though, and now having an IU guy on the bench I’ve wondered how he currently felt about the programs direction. I have to say, he’s not wrong in some of his latest shows. I can’t help but laugh and for the most part agree with his assessment. If your prone to hurt feelings then either loosen your belt and relax or don’t click the link. To me he’s just being real and not sugar coating but I realize to some he might come off as an absurd lunatic.

 

[Purdue7]

32 minutes ago, Steubenhoosier said:

And I believe CMW laid the foundation for his culture when 5 young men sat on the bench v Northwestern

💯👍

now it’s up to players to work hard and get better. 
 

[Mike]

13 minutes ago, Inequality said:

To be honest I’ve never gave this guy a second of thought. Lately though, and now having an IU guy on the bench I’ve wondered how he currently felt about the programs direction. I have to say, he’s not wrong in some of his latest shows. I can’t help but laugh and for the most part agree with his assessment. If your prone to hurt feelings then either loosen your belt and relax or don’t click the link. To me he’s just being real and not sugar coating but I realize to some he might come off as an absurd lunatic.

 

He is right!!

[SawatchHoosier]

1 hour ago, Inequality said:

To be honest I’ve never gave this guy a second of thought. Lately though, and now having an IU guy on the bench I’ve wondered how he currently felt about the programs direction. I have to say, he’s not wrong in some of his latest shows. I can’t help but laugh and for the most part agree with his assessment. If your prone to hurt feelings then either loosen your belt and relax or don’t click the link. To me he’s just being real and not sugar coating but I realize to some he might come off as an absurd lunatic.

 

To answer Dan's question of"How does Indiana basketball have such shitty players with shitty mentality?"

I'm gonna bite real quick from how I see it. Basically from the late 90s until 2021 we had over two decades of incompetence from the coaching staff and or administrations. When you screw everything up for nearly 20 years it takes a long time to fix. So it doesn't surprise to me that Indiana basketball is where it is. 20+ years is a long time socially and culturally mess up.

Here's the timeline and how I remember it but I might be wrong and will happily admit if I am. 

• Bob Knight in the late 90s abusing players. Proof from video from a practice in 1997. Remember Neil Reed was not scrub. He scored 1400 points for Indiana and you gotta think high recruits aren't gonna want that. 
• Bob Knight having no successor
• Administration not willing to fire Knight before things got real
• Fan base no supporting his removal in 2000 
• No high level coach wanting to go to Indiana until the shadow of Knight was gone 
• Mike Davis's insane run to the 2002 Championship removing any thoughts of replacing him
• Mike Davis saying his dream was to coach in the NBA 
• Hiring Kelvin Sampson 
• Self imposed scholarship loss cause we do things the right way
• No high level coach wanting to waste their prime coaching non-scholarship players for 2 years.
• Hiring of Tom Crean
• Tom Crean recruits Cody Zeller 
• Tom Crean can recruit but horrible in game coach loses with #1 team in the sweet sixteen.
• Tom Crean burning bridges with Indiana AAU and High School coaches causing a loss of high level in state recruits 
• Tom Crean leaving Indiana with no recruits and straight up bad players.
• Hiring Archie Miller
• 2019-20 team would have made tournament but Covid
• Lastly Indiana's athletic department was extremely profitable throughout the last 2 decades. If they're making money who cares if the basketball team is good. They got their money.

Essentially, by the time Indiana decided to act like real basketball university and hire someone decent  20 years had passed. Honestly, the fact we've had the success we've had the last two decades is amazing considering everything that has happened.

Edit: Also, there were many small but significant things that happened during the last two decades create a high volume of problems. Emment Holt getting hit by a car, Mike Davis never receiving any public support from Knight and a bunch of other things I don't want to relive. Anyway, this is just how I remember it and I'm probably wrong somewhere in all this. 

Edited March 3, 2022 by SawatchHoosier

[Sea Turtle]

25 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

"How does Indiana basketball have such shitty players with shitty mentality?"

I'm gonna bite real quick from how I see it. Basically from the late 90s until 2021 we had over two decades of incompetence from the coaching staff and or administrations. When you screw everything up for nearly 20 years it takes a long time to fix. So it doesn't surprise to me that Indiana basketball is where it is. 20+ years is a long time socially and culturally mess up.

Here's the timeline and how I remember it but I might be wrong and will happily admit if I am. 

• Bob Knight in the late 90s abusing players. Proof from video from a practice in 1997. Remember Neil Reed was not scrub. He scored 1400 points for Indiana and you gotta think high recruits aren't gonna want that. 
• Bob Knight having no successor
• Administration not willing to fire Knight before things got real
• Fan base no supporting his removal in 2000 
• No high level coach wanting to go to Indiana until the shadow of Knight was gone 
• Mike Davis's insane run to the 2002 Championship removing any thoughts of replacing him
• Mike Davis saying his dream was to coach in the NBA 
• Hiring Kelvin Sampson 
• Self imposed scholarship loss cause we do things the right way
• No high level coach wanting to waste their prime coaching non-scholarship players for 2 years.
• Hiring of Tom Crean
• Tom Crean recruits Cody Zeller 
• Tom Crean can recruit but horrible in game coach loses with #1 team in the sweet sixteen.
• Tom Crean burning bridges with Indiana AAU and High School coaches causing a loss of high level in state recruits 
• Tom Crean leaving Indiana with no recruits and straight up bad players.
• Hiring Archie Miller
• 2019-20 team would have made tournament but Covid
• Lastly Indiana's athletic department was extremely profitable throughout the last 2 decades. If they're making money who cares if the basketball team is good. They got their money.

Essentially, by the time Indiana decided to act like real basketball university and hire someone decent  20 years had passed. Honestly, the fact we've had the success we've had the last two decades is amazing considering everything that has happened.

Edit: Also, there were many small but significant things that happened during the last two decades create a high volume of problems. Emment Holt getting hit by a car, Mike Davis never receiving any public support from Knight and a bunch of other things I don't want to relive. Anyway, this is just how I remember it and I'm probably wrong somewhere in all this. 

Pitino had Iona going after one year. We just need a special coach. Not a feel good coach. 

We still haven't hired a decent coach Knight was fired. Not one.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Sea Turtle

[Inequality]

23 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

"How does Indiana basketball have such shitty players with shitty mentality?"

I'm gonna bite real quick from how I see it. Basically from the late 90s until 2021 we had over two decades of incompetence from the coaching staff and or administrations. When you screw everything up for nearly 20 years it takes a long time to fix. So it doesn't surprise to me that Indiana basketball is where it is. 20+ years is a long time socially and culturally mess up.

Here's the timeline and how I remember it but I might be wrong and will happily admit if I am. 

• Bob Knight in the late 90s abusing players. Proof from video from a practice in 1997. Remember Neil Reed was not scrub. He scored 1400 points for Indiana and you gotta think high recruits aren't gonna want that. 
• Bob Knight having no successor
• Administration not willing to fire Knight before things got real
• Fan base no supporting his removal in 2000 
• No high level coach wanting to go to Indiana until the shadow of Knight was gone 
• Mike Davis's insane run to the 2002 Championship removing any thoughts of replacing him
• Mike Davis saying his dream was to coach in the NBA 
• Hiring Kelvin Sampson 
• Self imposed scholarship loss cause we do things the right way
• No high level coach wanting to waste their prime coaching non-scholarship players for 2 years.
• Hiring of Tom Crean
• Tom Crean recruits Cody Zeller 
• Tom Crean can recruit but horrible in game coach loses with #1 team in the sweet sixteen.
• Tom Crean burning bridges with Indiana AAU and High School coaches causing a loss of high level in state recruits 
• Tom Crean leaving Indiana with no recruits and straight up bad players.
• Hiring Archie Miller
• 2019-20 team would have made tournament but Covid
• Lastly Indiana's athletic department was extremely profitable throughout the last 2 decades. If they're making money who cares if the basketball team is good. They got their money.

Essentially, by the time Indiana decided to act like real basketball university and hire someone decent  20 years had passed. Honestly, the fact we've had the success we've had the last two decades is amazing considering everything that has happened.

Your listed timeline sounds about right. I’m not sure of your point though. If you speaking of the overall downhill slide of the program then yes I agree that it’s all on the administration from the beginning. I think that’s what you are saying?

The time to repair or build has been beaten to it’s death. I’m not of the Woodson can’t get it done eventually camp. However, I am of the IU stomped on their own foot by not hiring Pitino when he came calling as Mike Davis was interim. The narrative of no one of any significance wants to come to IU is complete hogwash. 

This situation is interesting in a way because of Woodsons NBA experience and how he translates that experience and knowledge to the college game and amateur players.

Back to Dakich, he’s very raw and over the top in his assessment but I get it. I feel for the players as young people but he’s right in the way that there are players/people that go through the motions and then there are people that have the champion pedigree and work their tail off. That’s what I take from his rant.

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, Sea Turtle said:

Pitino had Iona going after one year. We just need a special coach. Not a feel good coach. 

We still haven't hired a decent coach Knight was fired. Not one.

Sad, program in a shambles!Maybe just shut it down completely.

[SawatchHoosier]

3 minutes ago, Inequality said:

 I think that’s what you are saying?

Yeah that's what I'm saying I'm just surprised Dakich doesn't know the answer. 

[IU Scott]

29 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

To answer Dan's question of"How does Indiana basketball have such shitty players with shitty mentality?"

I'm gonna bite real quick from how I see it. Basically from the late 90s until 2021 we had over two decades of incompetence from the coaching staff and or administrations. When you screw everything up for nearly 20 years it takes a long time to fix. So it doesn't surprise to me that Indiana basketball is where it is. 20+ years is a long time socially and culturally mess up.

Here's the timeline and how I remember it but I might be wrong and will happily admit if I am. 

• Bob Knight in the late 90s abusing players. Proof from video from a practice in 1997. Remember Neil Reed was not scrub. He scored 1400 points for Indiana and you gotta think high recruits aren't gonna want that. 
• Bob Knight having no successor
• Administration not willing to fire Knight before things got real
• Fan base no supporting his removal in 2000 
• No high level coach wanting to go to Indiana until the shadow of Knight was gone 
• Mike Davis's insane run to the 2002 Championship removing any thoughts of replacing him
• Mike Davis saying his dream was to coach in the NBA 
• Hiring Kelvin Sampson 
• Self imposed scholarship loss cause we do things the right way
• No high level coach wanting to waste their prime coaching non-scholarship players for 2 years.
• Hiring of Tom Crean
• Tom Crean recruits Cody Zeller 
• Tom Crean can recruit but horrible in game coach loses with #1 team in the sweet sixteen.
• Tom Crean burning bridges with Indiana AAU and High School coaches causing a loss of high level in state recruits 
• Tom Crean leaving Indiana with no recruits and straight up bad players.
• Hiring Archie Miller
• 2019-20 team would have made tournament but Covid
• Lastly Indiana's athletic department was extremely profitable throughout the last 2 decades. If they're making money who cares if the basketball team is good. They got their money.

Essentially, by the time Indiana decided to act like real basketball university and hire someone decent  20 years had passed. Honestly, the fact we've had the success we've had the last two decades is amazing considering everything that has happened.

Edit: Also, there were many small but significant things that happened during the last two decades create a high volume of problems. Emment Holt getting hit by a car, Mike Davis never receiving any public support from Knight and a bunch of other things I don't want to relive. Anyway, this is just how I remember it and I'm probably wrong somewhere in all this. 

Also in the late 90's we had 3 McDonald's AA transfer out in 3 straight years. RMK started to delegate recruiting to assistants and we lost our recruiting landscape. Before that RMK mainly recruited 3 states Indiana, Illinois and Ohio and was very successful.  We started getting players from places where players didn't indentify with IU basketball.

[IU Scott]

I know XJ goes to the limits sometime but I feel he is one of the few who looks like he hates losing.  I would like to more of our players to have his mentality and play with more of an edge.

[SawatchHoosier]

9 minutes ago, Inequality said:

However, I am of the IU stomped on their own foot by not hiring Pitino when he came calling as Mike Davis was interim. The narrative of no one of any significance wants to come to IU is complete hogwash. 

I appreciate your knowledge and expertise regarding this topic. I had always heard that Pitino never liked our administration in the early 2000s and that's why he was never talked about. I trust your info over those who said differently. Thanks for the info. 

[IUCrazy2]

2 hours ago, Inequality said:

To be honest I’ve never gave this guy a second of thought. Lately though, and now having an IU guy on the bench I’ve wondered how he currently felt about the programs direction. I have to say, he’s not wrong in some of his latest shows. I can’t help but laugh and for the most part agree with his assessment. If your prone to hurt feelings then either loosen your belt and relax or don’t click the link. To me he’s just being real and not sugar coating but I realize to some he might come off as an absurd lunatic.

 

Dan's frustration level with the program is where I am at.  

[rico]

9 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Also in the late 90's we had 3 McDonald's AA transfer out in 3 straight years. RMK started to delegate recruiting to assistants and we lost our recruiting landscape. Before that RMK mainly recruited 3 states Indiana, Illinois and Ohio and was very successful.  We started getting players from places where players didn't indentify with IU basketball.

Don't forget about Rob Hodgson.  That one still pisses me off.

[Inequality]

2 minutes ago, IU Scott said:

Also in the late 90's we had 3 McDonald's AA transfer out in 3 straight years. RMK started to delegate recruiting to assistants and we lost our recruiting landscape. Before that RMK mainly recruited 3 states Indiana, Illinois and Ohio and was very successful.  We started getting players from places where players didn't indentify with IU basketball.

RMK hunted my grandfathers property frequently. Rumor then was the heat he was getting from the IU admin and all the zero nonsense policy stuff was some of the reasoning behind the disconnect. Basically they pissed him off. To me that’s too long ago for me to remember any direct details if there even was any. I do know from RMK living across the street from my grandparents and hunting grandpas farm in Springville, that they shared lots of stories. Which we as kids would hear second hand.

[5fouls]

22 minutes ago, Sea Turtle said:

Pitino had Iona going after one year. We just need a special coach. Not a feel good coach. 

We still haven't hired a decent coach Knight was fired. Not one.

Kelvin Sampson is a helluva basketball coach.  

[5fouls]

18 minutes ago, Mike said:

Sad, program in a shambles!Maybe just shut it down completely.

Yep, let's do that.  The basketball program does nothing for the University.  

[Inequality]

6 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

I appreciate your knowledge and expertise regarding this topic. I had always heard that Pitino never liked our administration in the early 2000s and that's why he was never talked about. I trust your info over those who said differently. Thanks for the info. 

Oh believe me I’m no expert. Lol Far far from it. 

[IU Scott]

7 minutes ago, rico said:

Don't forget about Rob Hodgson.  That one still pisses me off.

I remember there was a recruiting class back then with Rob Turner, and Monti Mancini? Both of them never played for IU and thought Hodgson was in that class as well.

[SawatchHoosier]

6 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Yep, let's do that.  The basketball program does nothing for the University.  

And this is something that regardless of our record and lack of tournament appearances can't take away. Indiana Basketball has produced many great people. That's something I will always appreciate. We don't have a basketball history even in the last 20 decades of rapists and assholes. We've graduated real men from this University and for that I am extremely proud.

Edited March 3, 2022 by SawatchHoosier

[IU Scott]

8 minutes ago, 5fouls said:

Yep, let's do that.  The basketball program does nothing for the University.  

I wonder how the basketball program can survive since nobody cares. We can only get like 17,000 fans in Assembly Hall.

[IU Scott]

5 minutes ago, SawatchHoosier said:

And this is something that regardless of our record and lack of tournament appearances can't take away. Indiana Basketball has produced many great people. That's something I will always appreciate. We don't have a basketball history even in the last 20 decades of rapists and assholes. We've graduated real men from this University and for that I am extremely proud.

Sounds like the group of kids that Sampson brought in was no choir boys.